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test
10-15-04, 08:00 PM
I just have a few questions about PCI express cards.

Does PCIe run off of a normal PCI slot, or do I need to get a mobo with a PCIe slot, and if so, are there any AMD mobo's with PCIe?

Does PCIe give any performance advantage over AGP?

Is PCIe a bad choice right now? Is there anything that I should be waiting for instead of the 6600GT, or will that serve me well for a while?

Cota
10-15-04, 08:09 PM
PCIe is different from normal PCI, so you need a mobo that supports PCIe cards.

PCIe mobos for AMD are coming in the next few weeks from nvidia, via and sis

PCIe has a higher bandwith than AGP and is more scalable, but it will take some time to notice a significant difference, at present they perform very much the same.

If you are going for a 6600GT then you should wait for the AGP version which should be out in a couple of weeks.

Subtestube
10-15-04, 08:10 PM
Does PCIe run off of a normal PCI slot, or do I need to get a mobo with a PCIe slot, and if so, are there any AMD mobo's with PCIe?

No. You need a PCIe capable motherboard. There are currently no AMD mobos with PCIe support, but that should change in a couple weeks.

Does PCIe give any performance advantage over AGP?

Not yet. Apparently though, the NV45's video processor actually works, so that's a plus. It may give some performance advantage in the future in immensely texture heavy bus limited games, but at present the difference will be minor and will only show up in tests designed to exploit it.

Is PCIe a bad choice right now? Is there anything that I should be waiting for instead of the 6600GT, or will that serve me well for a while?
No, the 6600GT looks to be an excellent mid-range gaming card.

Edit... damn. someone else got there first. Oh well.

test
10-15-04, 11:41 PM
What about SLI? That works by connecting two cards and having them work as one, correct? Would that be a good thing to take advantage of in the future?

Omega53
10-15-04, 11:53 PM
If you are going for a 6600GT then you should wait for the AGP version which should be out in a couple of weeks.


I disagree with this completely. Looking at SLI results of PCI express, 2 6600GT's give around the same performance as a 6800 Ultra. If you have patients wait for nforce 4 boards with 2 PCI express slots and upgrade to that. Later on if you want to increase speed you can buy a second 6600GT and SLI them to double your performance.

K007
10-16-04, 02:27 AM
Yes, upgrade to a motherboard with SLI support, ie 2x pci16x, its future proof.

test
10-16-04, 04:04 PM
Ok I think I will definately wait for a dual PCIe mobo so I can take advantage of the SLI later..

Regarding the cards though, which brand is best to trust? (I buy everything from new egg, great prices, fast shipping) I see some brands alot more then others... but I dunno...

There is the XFX:

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/14-150-078-02.JPG

The other I am looking at is the Chaintech

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/14-145-098-02.JPG

Personally I am leaning towards chaintech 'cause of the additional cooling... but whatta you guys think?

Omega53
10-16-04, 04:12 PM
Chaintech has heatsinks on the ram so Chaintech = teh win

particleman
10-16-04, 06:57 PM
Yeah but the XFX has Dual DVI

test
10-17-04, 12:24 AM
That is a hard choice then.... why can't XFX just put RAMsinks on damnit =/

Regarding SLI, If I were to use it, would the two cards have to be exactly the same, or could I use different makes/models?

(like a 6600GT w/ 6800U).

kahloq
10-17-04, 01:46 AM
MUST BE SAME MAKE and SAME MODEL

dunedainelessar
11-24-04, 11:10 PM
I can tell you all about one 6600GT that you should avoid like the second coming of the plague. I have now patiently replaced three 6600GTs made by eVGA. The card is the standard issue 6600GT with 128MB of DDR3 video ram on it. The first thing you will notice is the fact that there are no heatsinks on them. I have it setup in an XPC81P box with the ambient temperature holding at about 43 degrees celcius. The card will idle at about 52 degrees celcius and runs in WindowsXP just fine. It is using the latest 66.93 reference drivers from NVidia. When I load up Planetside or EverquestII, the GPU heats up to a nice and toasty 93 degrees celcius when it hits that threshold, the card locks up then reboots the system. The fun part is watching the ASCII art show up and the picture is forever wrecked. I am connecting it to a ViewSonic VX900 LCD monitor using DVI. OK call me crazy, but my 5700Ultra never got anywhere near those temps, and the crazy thing is that I was able to do this consistently on all three of the cards. I am happy that this box had an onboard video card so I could do some research to see what the heck was going on with this card. So far no other stories seem to match up to the problem that I am having. Any ideas on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Also any suggestions on an alternat PCIx16 card is appreciated. I am very much an NVidia person, but have never seen so many cards fail this badly.

Decimator
11-25-04, 11:47 AM
MUST BE SAME MAKE and SAME MODEL

That's not what I'd heard, though there may be some performance/stability benefit from doing that, AFAIK, at the moment, even an FX-55 cannot supply enough geometry for the X800's/Ultra's on their own, so SLI boards will be even more CPU limited.

rohit
11-26-04, 01:47 AM
MUST BE SAME MAKE and SAME MODEL
Not necessary, the 2 cards must b same model/type.. for eg. two 6600GT's
And must hav the same bios! [according to anandtech's SLi review]

I'd recomend CHAINTECH over XFX!

kahloq
11-26-04, 02:46 PM
Not necessary, the 2 cards must b same model/type.. for eg. two 6600GT's
And must hav the same bios! [according to anandtech's SLi review]

I'd recomend CHAINTECH over XFX!
Each AIB uses their own bios generally...so unless you want to flash one card to the same bios as another different AID made card, then you still have to have same make and model.
If you have 1 evga 6600GT(or 6800GT/Ultra) and you have an XFX brand of the same card type...ie 6600GT.....you would have to flash one of them to match the other(this of course voids your warranty).

Mud
11-26-04, 07:31 PM
just make sure you get a SLI capable mobo, not all PCIe mobos support it!

qballshalls2002
11-26-04, 09:01 PM
IMO, I think SLI is a waiste of money. Why pay $1000 for one year, then 8-12months later a new generation card comes out that cost half the price of SLI and can compete with SLI's performance. From what Im seeing, SLI seems beneficial for people who demand 80fps or higher in resolutions higher than 16x1200 with aa with af. I think its good that now there's a better way for consumers to upgrade earlier without having to waite for the market to come out with new technology. But PC gaming is getting to be a pretty damn expensive hobby in order to stay "733t"! :ORDER:

Im waiting for nForce4 motherboard( non SLI) to arrive, and the Amd64 3800+ to drop in price. :drooling:

Mud
11-26-04, 11:12 PM
IMO, I think SLI is a waiste of money. Why pay $1000 for one year, then 8-12months later a new generation card comes out that cost half the price of SLI and can compete with SLI's performance. From what Im seeing, SLI seems beneficial for people who demand 80fps or higher in resolutions higher than 16x1200 with aa with af. I think its good that now there's a better way for consumers to upgrade earlier without having to waite for the market to come out with new technology. But PC gaming is getting to be a pretty damn expensive hobby in order to stay "733t"! :ORDER:

Im waiting for nForce4 motherboard( non SLI) to arrive, and the Amd64 3800+ to drop in price. :drooling:

with most games being so very cpu limited at the moment the only application for something as powerful as SLI is ridiculous levels of image quality...but hey, the option's there for IQ *****s with money and so it just bolsters the effective range of products, no bad thing. you're paying to get one up on the current state of videocards, there's no questioning thats a nice option!

it does seem SLI isn't perfect...but then it does do some nice things.

...and it's '1337' :ORDER:

rohit
11-27-04, 05:46 AM
Each AIB uses their own bios generally...so unless you want to flash one card to the same bios as another different AID made card, then you still have to have same make and model.
If you have 1 evga 6600GT(or 6800GT/Ultra) and you have an XFX brand of the same card type...ie 6600GT.....you would have to flash one of them to match the other(this of course voids your warranty).

Yeh i meant that!

rohit
11-27-04, 05:57 AM
IMO, I think SLI is a waiste of money. Why pay $1000 for one year, then 8-12months later a new generation card comes out that cost half the price of SLI and can compete with SLI's performance. From what Im seeing, SLI seems beneficial for people who demand 80fps or higher in resolutions higher than 16x1200 with aa with af. I think its good that now there's a better way for consumers to upgrade earlier without having to waite for the market to come out with new technology. But PC gaming is getting to be a pretty damn expensive hobby in order to stay "733t"! :ORDER:

Im waiting for nForce4 motherboard( non SLI) to arrive, and the Amd64 3800+ to drop in price. :drooling:

Think about it this way.
A player, hu upgrades cpu/mobo/ram/vid-card every 2 yrs, now has a chance to upgrade.
he will buy a SLi capable mobo & Fx-55 or (or a good intel combo) buy a pci-e 6800GT, and a regular 420Watts psu. the rig costs almost same as a regular hi-end gaming rig today. then wen the new gen. cards are launched (nv50,r520), every1 goes for the hi-end cards but he cant afford it. so he buys another 6800GT + the PSU, to match up with the performance of new gen cards. this tme the 6800GT & new PSU will b cheaper.
Its jus lke the way we do it wid ram. 1st every1 uses 1slot-512mb. then after 3 - 6 months the DUAL CHANNEL comes into action!

thats My opinion abt. SLi, i am gonna build one for my cuzin. I was goin for the AGP-8x mobo. Then some person explained it to me in the above manner. nv50 may not offer much for AGP.

ynnek
11-27-04, 06:23 AM
I'm not convinced SLI would save money in the long run.

Especially if you consider, you could sell your old vid card, for money to go towards your new vid card.. (Hopefully you won't have to buy a new PSU though) And probably end up with better performance, and more features than going dual SLI..


SLI is still neat if you want ultimate performance.. but I really don't think its worth the buying one card now, and then waiting to buy the 2nd card only after the next gen of cards come out...

rohit
11-27-04, 06:33 AM
for the current series of gf6, sli can b usefull, bcoz
-the nex gen cards are gonna hav PS3.0 wich is already supported by this gen.
-The spex of the nex gen card is 24pipes and stuff. i dont hink it wuld generate more than 2x FPS of current nv40.
So considering these things. Sli looks pretty decent.

lets wait and watch. any wich ways the future holds new solns for pci-e and AGP soln. future seems to be BLEEk. So if building a new comp u hafta go for pci-e. rather buy a mobo with 2 pci-e slots.