An honest political question

[SquireSCA]

I am reading a lot of the stuff coming out in the media lately. We are being told that the Presidential race is neck-and-neck, and that it is "too close to call".

I am not sure that I believe that, in all honesty.

We have the Kerry campaign engaging in all sorts of off-the-wall things in the past few weeks.

Someone from the Kerry camp feeding Dan Rather falsified government documents in order to use in a smear campaign against Bush's National Guard record.

John Kerry trying to politicize Cheney's lesbian daughter, in the hopes that the revelation would alienate some of the Republican Party's more hardline Christian base.

John Edwards claiming that "If John Kerry were President, Christopher Reeve and people like him would not be dying, but would be walking again"... LOL

The draft fiasco, where a Democrat introduces a bill to reinstate the draft, and the Democrats try to use it as a weapon against Bush, even though the Bill was defeated 402-2, having every Republican vote against it and even the Democrat sponser of the bill voting against it.

Today they are blaming shortages of the flu vaccine on Bush, even though it was a contamination problem in the UK.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041020/D85R2U384.html

Then we have the NAACP paying people with drugs to go out and register fake voters.

We have 93% of the dead people registering to vote in battleground states, registering as Democrats.

We see that Kerry has already hired lawyers in several key states, so that if the vote is close, they can go to court and try to sue for the White House as they did in 2000.

I could go on for days about all the insanity coming out of the Kerry camp...

What this all looks like to me, is that the Dems have internal polling data that does *not* show a neck-and-neck race. It looks to me like they are quite literally in a panic, throwing anything at the wall no matter how ludicrous, in the vain hopes that something, ANYTHING, will stick to Bush.

And so I ax you, if you are confident of your chances of winning and things are doing well, would you have to resort to this sort of crap?

Would you have to enlist the media, or RockTheVote in an effort to create a panic of a false draft, just to scare people into voting for your candidate? What that says to me is that you know that people aren't voting for your guy, and that you *have* to resort to this kind of trickery in an effort to get votes.

A guy that stood a good chance of winning would never resort to this stuff, that is my point.

I think that a lot of people are going to wake up Nov 3rd, and wonder how Kerry lost by double digits.

People can quote polls and studies all day long, but common sense tells me that what we are seeing lately, is a sign that Kerry is in serious trouble, and that they are going for broke here because they feel they have nothing to lose at this point...

Forget about the flip-flops and Iraq and all that... Just look at the actions of Kerry and his surrogates in the media, and you tell me if this stuff does not look like desperation on their part.

Why would they be so desperate if things were looking positive for Kerry?

Just some food for thought.

[The new guy]

Looks that way to me. Edwards really said that about Christopher Reeves?

[jnd3]

Looks that way to me. Edwards really said that about Christopher Reeves?
Thus sayeth John "The Baptist" Edwards (http://www.timesrepublican.com/news/story/1012202004_newnews.asp):

"We will do stem cell research," [Edwards] vowed. "We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases. America just lost a great champion for this cause in Christopher Reeve. People like Chris Reeve will get out of their wheelchairs and walk again with stem cell research."
Let me hear ya say, "Amen!"

Regarding the original question, I think it does smack of desperation, but I think there'll be enough fraud and enough of the "anybody but Bush" crowd to make it a close heat. It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks, that's for sure.

[oldsk00l]

Personally I don't believe the race is too close to call. I'm thinking Bush is going to clean it up. HOWEVER, I have my doubts on that because Colorado seems like it could go Kerry. Everywhere I go I'm seeing Kerry/Edwards stickers, then in the very next town it's all Bush, travel 40 more miles, Kerry, etc.

[Bill The Cat]

Colorado is a Bush-leaning swing state.

People seem to take too much stock in polls. Remember that the electoral college decides who wins, not the majority. Statewide polls in contested states are a much better gage of who the victor will be.

[Clay]

Today they are blaming shortages of the flu vaccine on Bush, even though it was a contamination problem in the UK.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041020/D85R2U384.htmlThe Clinton administration (Hillary in particular) can shed some light on the source of the problem with the vaccine not being produced in America as it once was. ;)

[jnd3]

Colorado is a Bush-leaning swing state.

People seem to take too much stock in polls. Remember that the electoral college decides who wins, not the majority. Statewide polls in contested states are a much better gage of who the victor will be.
Very true. The Electoral Vote Predictor 2004 (http://www.electoral-vote.com/) has a good breakdown of state polls, as does RealClear Politics (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls.html).

All I know is that a Kerry presidency might final push me over the edge into buying a gun or fifty-seven.

[saturnotaku]

fifty-seven.

Heinz 57? :p

[oldsk00l]

I don't put any faith into those polls, Bush supporters aren't going out and voting on these polls. Meanwhile Kerry supporters are getting these clarion call to arms type messages to "go hunt out polls and put your votes on em"

[DiscipleDOC]

They are desparate because they never intended John Kerry to beat out all of the other candidates for the DNC. The DNC knows that Kerry is a waste of time, and knows that they have to prepare for 4 years from now.

In the meantime, they want to paint a picture that the Conservatives are the enemy, and that they are the reason why this country is struggling now.....you know...sorta what Adolf Hitler did to blame the Jews before WWII.

[Saint Lucifer]

In the meantime, they want to paint a picture that the Conservatives are the enemy, and that they are the reason why this country is struggling now.....you know...sorta what Adolf Hitler did to blame the Jews before WWII.I can't think of a single presidential candidate running against an incumbent that has run on the platform that his opponent was doing a good job...

[Kamel]

first of all, there's no such thing as an 'honest political question', second of all, if there were such thing, this would NOT be it. i can't help but to notice how everything you mentioned in your post is somehow a jab at democrats and the kerry/edwards campaign. third of all, this is just evidence that it is indeed a close race, with both sides trying their hardest to campaign and get in their political rallys before nov second. and fourth of all, most importantly, NO ONE knows who is going to win, if there's anything g w has taught us from the first election, it's that you dont necessarily have to have the majority of votes to win.

edit: just to piss you off, i got good news in my e-mail i'd like to share with you.

Dear Chad,

Election Day is just 14 days from today -- many states are already "voting early." Things are really heating up. Our office in Washington, D.C. is emptying out -- every day more and more staff and volunteers head out to the battleground states where the election will be closest.

I've said it before and now I'm going to say it again: it is time to turn off the computer, lace up your sneakers, and do some old-fashioned on-the-street politics. Make your plans now. Take off from work or classes Nov. 1 and Nov. 2 or even the next two weeks. You don't want to regret not doing everything you could.

The campaign and Democratic Party's biggest need for volunteers is during the last ten days, then the last four days, and finally Election Day. The best way to get involved is to sign up at a local door-to-door canvass, phone bank, or campaign office. You need to show up and get training to make the biggest difference on Election Day. This weekend is Election Day training and scheduling weekend.

You live in state bordering an important battleground state. Please travel to the neighboring state and show up at the volunteer event listed below and get involved for the last ten days and Election Day -- there are more than 1,000 locations nationwide.
Event:
Cabell County Canvass
Meet at:

335 Hal Greer Blvd
Huntington, WV 25701
Cabell County Democratic HQ
When:
Saturday, October 23 at 11:00 AM

RSVP:
https://volunteer.johnkerry.com/event/view/?id=30329&1=1

Sunday, October 24 at 01:00 PM

RSVP:
https://volunteer.johnkerry.com/event/view/?id=30330&1=1

If you want to find another canvass near you click on the link below to search our nationwide event database.

Show me other canvasses in my state

The Democratic Party is fielding the biggest, most aggressive and technologically advanced grassroots outreach effort in history. With polls showing us in a dead heat, this election will be decided by old fashioned, street-level, door-to-door politics fueled by the hard work and commitment of hundreds of thousands of volunteers. That's right -- not hundreds, not thousands, not just tens of thousands -- hundreds of thousands of volunteers are needed. That's why it is so important that everybody makes a contribution.

There isn't anybody else out there. It's us -- all of us together -- that will make the difference.

Thanks for all you do.

Let's win another day.

Mary Beth Cahill
Campaign Manager
P.S.
Learn more about your state on JohnKerry.com:

http://johnkerry.com/states/ky


i'll be there, you better believe it ;)

edit: for clarity, i'm sick of democrats being labeled as all having these same radical ideas. i'm sick of republicans pointing all these fingers at stupid **** saying "omg they cheat!" it really makes me upset to see that people can not look at both sides. what do you think g w has been doing? "that man tried to kill my daddy" -- yep george, that pretty-much sums it up. when g w bush got into office originally he was a horrible speaker, and he's gotten trained quite a good deal on that. he tries to appeal to the christians and believers of god, there have been priests saying that it's a SIN to vote for john kerry because of what he believes in. this is rediculous. if you're gonna label me, then i might as well wear that label loud and proud.

[SquireSCA]

Looks that way to me. Edwards really said that about Christopher Reeves?

Yes.

Which is not only asenine, it is misleading. There is no federal ban on stem-cell research.

All Bush has done is say that at this time, he will not spend federal tax dollars on it. Private firms and anyone else can do all the research they want.

Which really brings out how Democrats feel about the world, that only big government can solve your problems...

[SquireSCA]

Colorado is a Bush-leaning swing state.

People seem to take too much stock in polls. Remember that the electoral college decides who wins, not the majority. Statewide polls in contested states are a much better gage of who the victor will be.

True dat. They were claiming that Reagan/Mondale was too close to call, and the next morning we woke up to find that Reagan had carried 48 or 49 states... LOL

[SquireSCA]

first of all, there's no such thing as an 'honest political question', second of all, if there were such thing, this would NOT be it. i can't help but to notice how everything you mentioned in your post is somehow a jab at democrats and the kerry/edwards campaign. third of all, this is just evidence that it is indeed a close race, with both sides trying their hardest to campaign and get in their political rallys before nov second. and fourth of all, most importantly, NO ONE knows who is going to win, if there's anything g w has taught us from the first election, it's that you dont necessarily have to have the majority of votes to win.

edit: just to piss you off, i got good news in my e-mail i'd like to share with you.



i'll be there, you better believe it ;)

edit: for clarity, i'm sick of democrats being labeled as all having these same radical ideas. i'm sick of republicans pointing all these fingers at stupid **** saying "omg they cheat!" it really makes me upset to see that people can not look at both sides. what do you think g w has been doing? "that man tried to kill my daddy" -- yep george, that pretty-much sums it up. when g w bush got into office originally he was a horrible speaker, and he's gotten trained quite a good deal on that. he tries to appeal to the christians and believers of god, there have been priests saying that it's a SIN to vote for john kerry because of what he believes in. this is rediculous. if you're gonna label me, then i might as well wear that label loud and proud.

Have fun.

On November 3rd, when you are out on a ledge because your boy Kerry went down faster than a Clinton intern, feel free to give me a call. :-)

You can say all you want, but actions speak louder than rhetoric.

The actions, lies and outright hysteria from the Kerry camp are not indicative of a confident campaign no matter how you try to spin it.

They lied about the draft, it was a DNC ploy and they got caught. How is that a jab? It's a fact! There was no Republican plan for a draft, ever. It was proposed by Charlie Rangle(D) from NY. He proposed it in an effort to create support for pulling out of Iraq. The Dems thought that if they started talking about a draft, that public opinion would turn against the war and the President.

They got caught, and when put to a vote, even the guy who sponsored it voted against it.

The Dan Rather fiasco, that was a jab?

The claims from John Kerry that "a million blacks were denied their right to vote by Bush in 2000" when not a single black person has ever surfaced who was denied the right to vote, that is a jab at Kerry? Dude, he made the claim, not I.

Edwards blaming Chris Reeve's death on Bush, that is a jab?

Gimme a break. Pull your head out of the sand before you get run over, son...

[Clay]

Did anyone else find the humor/irony in Mary Beth Cahill's comments?

I've said it before and now I'm going to say it again: it is time to turn off the computer, lace up your sneakers, and do some old-fashioned on-the-street politics. Make your plans now. Take off from work or classes Nov. 1 and Nov. 2 or even the next two weeks. You don't want to regret not doing everything you could.Wow, just wow. :D

[SquireSCA]

edit: for clarity, i'm sick of democrats being labeled as all having these same radical ideas. i'm sick of republicans pointing all these fingers at stupid **** saying "omg they cheat!" it really makes me upset to see that people can not look at both sides. what do you think g w has been doing? "that man tried to kill my daddy" -- yep george, that pretty-much sums it up.

That lie was debunked years ago, you might want to look into getting some new material.

And they do cheat. WHen you register felons to vote, that is cheating. When you register dead people to vote, that is cheating. When you register illegal aliens to vote, that is cheating. When you offer cases of cigarettes to homeless people to get them to vote for you, that is cheating. When you have people vote multiple times, that is cheating. WHen you pay people in crack-cocaine to register illegal voters, that is cheating.

Wake up and smell the bull**** your team is spewing...

[Clay]

Some links to corroborate the NAACP issue involving drugs for votes and dead/prisoners voting:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041019/NEWS09/410190343
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9713860.htm
http://www.americandaily.com/article/5294

[Kamel]

you guys completely missed my point. i am not a politician, and i am utterly horrible at speaking about politics i admit. the point i was trying to make is that yes, i think the 'dems' are cheating in some ways. but, also, i think the 'reps' are cheating also. i think they cheated last election, and i think that's the only reason they won it.

i'm sorry if the NAACP is cheating and bribing or signing people up to vote that are inprisoned or dead... I CANT HELP THAT. just because i'm a democrat doesn't mean that you should get mad at ME for the stupid **** that OTHER people do. just as relevant you should not get mad at john kerry for this, nor the DNC, because i don't feel they have _anything_ to do with it. if you've got proof, then come out with it. just because you live in chicago doesn't mean that you are a murderer, because someone in that town murdered someone. these labels everyone keeps throwing around are making me quite sick, THAT'S what i'm upset about.

sorry for not being clear enough.

[DiscipleDOC]

you guys completely missed my point. i am not a politician, and i am utterly horrible at speaking about politics i admit. the point i was trying to make is that yes, i think the 'dems' are cheating in some ways. but, also, i think the 'reps' are cheating also. i think they cheated last election, and i think that's the only reason they did it.

i'm sorry if the NAACP is cheating and bribing or signing people up to vote that are inprisoned or dead... I CANT HELP THAT. just because i'm a democrat doesn't mean that you should get mad at ME for the stupid **** that OTHER people do. just as relevant you should not get mad at john kerry for this, nor the DNC, because i don't feel they have _anything_ to do with it. if you've got proof, then come out with it. just because you live in chicago doesn't mean that you are a murderer, because someone in that town murdered someone. these labels everyone keeps throwing around are making me quite sick, THAT'S what i'm upset about.

sorry for not being clear enough.

No one is singling you out and is saying that you are the cause for this. We are saying, however, that your party is in the Win-At-All-Cost mode, and it is sickening to see the depths that they will go to win.

[Clay]

No one is singling you out and is saying that you are the cause for this. We are saying, however, that your party is in the Win-At-All-Cost mode, and it is sickening to see the depths that they will go to win..

Yeah, nothing personal Kamel. :) I don't think that anyone here is dim enough to try and place any blame on you, that's just ridiculous. If you think that the Bush administration and/or outside supporters are cheating please provide some links to support this (as I've done above with respect to the Democratic Party supporters cheating methods). I've not heard of any. If the Republican Party cheated in the last election and was "the only reason they won it"...I think you'll be hard pressed to prove that given the overwhelming evidence that shows otherwise.

[Kamel]

if it's nothing personal, then please don't say 'the dems', because i am a democrat, so that certainly applies to me.

anyway, i am not taking it personal, i am just standing up for my party. i would say that over 90% of democrats are honest and want to win this the right way. if the minority of the democrats are cheating (with or without proof), then it is hard to believe that it is anything near accurate to put a blanket statement on every democrat because of this.

now, admittedly 90% is most definitely a made up statistic, but i am certain that the majority aren't cheating if they aren't even able to make enough votes to 'swing' a 'swing state' (hasn't happened just yet).

where's my proof that they cheated last time? have you seen fahrenheit 911? of course, it does have propaganda in it, but if you look at the facts, that every appeal was declined by the senate that their votes in florida were clearly shown in favor of al gore, just because it's necessary for a member of the senate to sign the papers... well, that to me is what i consider a cheat, and those are facts, regardless of their source.

[joeuser65536]

I think the dems are the biggest lot of misinformation spreading, vote buying, vote cheating, self-serving lot I have ever seen. :nanahump:

[Clay]

I never said "the dems". Besides, I could care less if someone pointing out underhanded techniques of the Republican Party said "the reps" as I would know what they are referring to (which is not to me personally or in particular as I don't define myself by political party).

It sure sounded (and still sounds) like you're taking it personally. I'm confused.

Have I seen F911? Hahahah..no, I...well, no, no I haven't and I've got about 9,000 better things to do in my life than to watch it but if you're interested in learning some actual facts regarding that jizz then you might want to check this out (http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm). Or check here too: http://www.fahrenhype911.com/

A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm

This is some very good reading as well regarding the study: http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp

If the study proved anything, it demonstrated how close the election truly was. Neither candidate would have won by a significant margin under any counting or recounting scenario. Further, there is no connection between Gore's hunt for more votes in Democrat counties and what the study "revealed".

Interestingly, throughout Gore's quest he and Florida Supreme Court ignored ballots where two candidates were selected (overvotes). Apparently they were not concerned about these "disenfranchised voters". But the NORC study includes these ballots within their research.

"...the ballot examination includes not only the undervotes (ballots with no registered vote for president) but also the overvotes (ballots with more than one vote for president)." - The NORC Study

Many Democrats actually continue to say, "The Newspaper study says Gore won Florida." (Apparently Michael Moore does so in his film F911, slicing a quote out of an article.) Of course, they completely ignore the reality of how elections were held in Florida, how votes were tabulated, what constitutes a vote, which counties recounted, Florida law, etc. But unfortunately, anti-Bush people have taken the false conclusions and have begun codifying them. (I recently heard Ralph Nader cite the study claiming Bush lost Florida - as many people have done falsely.)

They further ignore that over 2000 spoiled ballots were not included in the study due to some mishap.

[Bill The Cat]

.

Yeah, nothing personal Kamel. :) I don't think that anyone here is dim enough to try and place any blame on you, that's just ridiculous. If you think that the Bush administration and/or outside supporters are cheating please provide some links to support this (as I've done above with respect to the Democratic Party supporters cheating methods). I've not heard of any. If the Republican Party cheated in the last election and was "the only reason they won it"...I think you'll be hard pressed to prove that given the overwhelming evidence that shows otherwise.

I think it's fair to say that both parties, given the chance would or will cheat without batting an eye. We, the public, are unaware of what goes on behind the scenes. Be they Matthew Dowd or Mary Beth Cahill, the parties will use any advantage presented to them.

It's just an ugly fact of politics.