I hate to make a thread like this...

[superklye]

But I want to ask for an AMD64 mobo/CPU for Christmas and I want to know what you all prefer and why? The only requirements are that it has to be nForce3 or the Via equivalent because my 6800 is AGP and socket 939.

Thanks!

[Kojiro]

because my 6800 is AGP and socket 939.

This does not make any sense.

[netviper13]

This does not make any sense.

It has to have AGP (which the nForce4 may not have), and must be a socket 939 board.

[superklye]

It has to have AGP (which the nForce4 may not have), and must be a socket 939 board.

yeah...sorry.

[CaptNKILL]

Sounds like you are in the same boat as me. I almost wish Nvidia would have just skipped making the AGP versions of these cards if they werent going to make chipsets that support them 5 months later. Its still one of the fastest cards on the market, theres no reason the Nforce 4 should be completely lacking any AGP support.

:bs:

[Blacklash]

I'd get a 3200 or 3500 Winchester 90 nm core and gamble on the MSI board. If you get a good one it will be worth it. If not get the Asus.

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120422

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120423

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-510&depa=0

You will need a good heat sink. I'd do this, especially if you are going to OC:

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-tri-13.html

When you order it tick the Panaflo fan on the same page and the arctic silver 5. On the Panaflo fan, order the optional "fan tail" with it, otherwise you get a fan with bare leads.


If you want a stronger fan get this instead:

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/fan-87.html

Either CPU is fine for overclocking. You may get a tad more out of the 3500, they are new, so that issue is up in the air. I see no reason why you can't get at least 3500 performance out of the 3200 though, unless you get a bad chip.

Check pricewatch before you order and get the best price. Monarch tends to run their prices up and down.

http://www.pricewatch.com/

[|JuiceZ|]

Actually, if you're an o'cer, you could pick up a A64 3000+ (90nm) (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120421&Category_Code=NA_2) chip for $179 + MSI K8N Plat 2 (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=110228) for $145 & with good PC3200 o'c it to 2.5Ghz-2.6Ghz. A64 FX-55-like perf out of a $179 chip is a bargain. Have read feedback from several ppl that have purchased that combo after reading the results from Anandtech's article that are achieving the same or similiar results. I'm actually currently evaluating selling my s754 stuff right now & trying my luck, esp w/ the limited upgradebility the s754 platform has.

[ragejg]

A64 FX-55-like perf out of a $179 chip is a bargain.


:clap2: :canadian: :super: :headbang:

That's what I'm gonna do!!!

[CaptNKILL]

:clap2: :canadian: :super: :headbang:

That's what I'm gonna do!!!
Thats what I want to do as well :D

I wonder if there are any features of the Nforce 4 that I absolutely cant live without. If not, an Nforce 3 will do just fine.

... though Im still bitter about the whole Soundstorm 2 thing :retard:

[ragejg]

..heh, I'm thinkin integrated Audigy1 would be cool.... :p

[CaptNKILL]

I wonder what would be better for games... the integrated ALC850 onboard on the MSI board or one of my old sound cards. I have a Live! 5.1, Santa Cruz (ugh, not this... not for games), a Soundblaster 16 (wait, no ISA slots :D) and some other old crappy sound cards.

I really wish the Audigy 2 ZS didnt cost so damned much :(

Its looking like im going to have to skip all these upgrades. I just cant afford it.
another 512Mb PC-3200 = $90
A64 3000+ = $180
motherboard = $120+

then ill need new speakers. Im not sure, but I dont think the ALC850 does Dolby Pro Logic encoding, so id be stuck with 2 channel audio (bleh).

Gigaworks S700 = $320
then I wouldnt be happy with onboard sound quality... so...
Audigy 2 ZS = $90

... comes out to $800 :|
So yeah... looks like im going to be suffering with my old CPU for another year. God dammit...:(

[Riptide]

..heh, I'm thinkin integrated Audigy1 would be cool.... :p
Screw that Adlib Gold all the way dude! :headbang:

[superklye]

I'd get a 3200 or 3500 Winchester 90 nm core and gamble on the MSI board. If you get a good one it will be worth it. If not get the Asus.

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120422

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120423

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-510&depa=0

You will need a good heat sink. I'd do this, especially if you are going to OC:

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-tri-13.html

When you order it tick the Panaflo fan on the same page and the arctic silver 5.

If you want a stronger fan get this instead:

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/fan-87.html

Either CPU is fine for overclocking. You may get a tad more out of the 3500, they are new, so that issue is up in the air. I see no reason why you can't get at least 3500 performance out of the 3200 though, unless you get a bad chip.

Check pricewatch before you order and get the best price. Monarch tends to run their prices up and down.

http://www.pricewatch.com/


sweet, thanks for the help...but what do you mean "if you get a good one"? MSI has faulty boards?

And thanks to everyone else with their contributions. :)

[|JuiceZ|]

So yeah... looks like im going to be suffering with my old CPU for another year. God dammit...:(

Hate to hear that buddy, what's your budget?

[Blacklash]

sweet, thanks for the help...but what do you mean "if you get a good one"? MSI has faulty boards?

And thanks to everyone else with their contributions. :)

It depends on who you ask, and who you believe. Some people have done very well with their boards, others have had a rough time. If I averaged all the posts I have read it would lead me to believe it is possible they have hit and miss quality control. Being as I do not have one I can only go on all the feedback I have heard.

I believe there have been cases where people have had trouble with the board do to quirks. I also believe some people may have been in a rush to get the board up and going so ignored valuable tweaks that would make it perform much better. HardOcp has a very good thread where a fellow basically asked for the best advice to get the board up and running smoothly. Currently I can not connect to thier forums or I would link you to it.

Read this thread for some general advice:

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43033

Official MSI boards here:

http://forum.msi.com.tw/board.php?boardid=28


"if you're referring to the MSI K8N Neo2 Plat I have some experience with it

real issues:
-Dimms 3&4 do not work well even at default speeds
-Is very picky about memory types Crucial ballistix and TCCD are the choices I've seen so far, personally I sold my OCZ for Ballistix
-SATA 1&2 are not locked so when O/c-ing you need to use 3&4
-PS2 Keyboards and mouse result in random reboots, use USB variants
-CPU temps are a little bit on the hot side
-Needs certain bios options set a certain way

The MSI forums have been a tremendous help

just like any other hobbist/overclockers board it requires tweaking to get the most out of it. 250x10 @ 1.55vcore has been pretty stable for me so far on my 3500+ watercooled"
__________________
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43188

[superklye]

awesome dude...awesome. You've been a huge help. Thanks a ton. :)

So nForce3 is NOT the way to go, I take it?

[Blacklash]

awesome dude...awesome. You've been a huge help. Thanks a ton. :)

So nForce3 is NOT the way to go, I take it?

I wouldn't say that at all. I would say the MSI board can be picky and has unique quirks. It would be good if it was tweaked and used with a later bios. The people that have got theirs going well love them. I would 'take notes' of how the problems were fixed and the tweaks that were done. If you don't want to bother with the picky nature of that board just go with the ASUS. If you do get the ASUS board make damn sure you have the latest revision of its BIOS in it or the 90nm chip will not work with it. I would speak with a sales rep and make sure of it.

[superklye]

I wouldn't say that at all. I would say the MSI board can be picky and has unique quirks. It would be good if it was tweaked and used with a later bios. The people that have gotten theirs going well love them. I would 'take notes' of how the problems were fixed and the tweaks were done. If you don't want to bother with the picky nature of that board just go with the ASUS. If you do get the ASUS board make damn sure you have the latest revision of its BIOS in it or the 90nm chip will not work with it. I would speak with a sales rep and make sure of it.

You have been a most excellent help. Thank you and thank you again.

[Blacklash]

You have been a most excellent help. Thank you and thank you again.

NP. I'd haunt the boards at MSI and find that thread at HardOcp when their forums come back up. If you are going to overclock you might want to pick this up and drop it in dimm slot 4.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-998-301&depa=0

Flashing to the latest BIOS, not using SATA ports 1/2, and avoiding the mouse/keyboards they mentioned will help alot. As long as you are methodical and careful I think you should have success with the MSI. Again, I am going off of mass third party information so do not take my word as the "truth". I can only tell you what I have heard. If I was going nforce3 I can honestly say I would take a swipe at the MSI board first.

I know when I get new gear I want to rush and put it together. Fight that instinct and go slow. One small mistake=hours of stress trying to fix....

Edit:

Make that read, "the AMD64 nvidia based board" mobo forums, the "overclockers & modding corner" and the "good articles forum" here at MSI:

http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?sid=888cc67a8cdf5c22e79edccd3976e1ab

[okra]

I'm in a similar situation as far as which upgrade path to go on.

I've concluded that if DFI can get their socket 939 board based on the nforce3 chipset out, I'm gonna go with that.

been hearing that nforce4 will NOT support AGP - although I've read there will be one model nforce4 that WILL have AGP - but this is going to depend on the mobo manufacturer.

Otherwise, DFI nforce3 socket 754 is looking like a nice, cheap option.

[superklye]

I'm in a similar situation as far as which upgrade path to go on.

I've concluded that if DFI can get their socket 939 board based on the nforce3 chipset out, I'm gonna go with that.

been hearing that nforce4 will NOT support AGP - although I've read there will be one model nforce4 that WILL have AGP - but this is going to depend on the mobo manufacturer.

Otherwise, DFI nforce3 socket 754 is looking like a nice, cheap option.

If it's a native PCIe board though, the AGP onboard is like slower than a PCI slot or soemthing like that...I've heard it's just pathetic which really sucks.

[ynnek]

Yea, the easy way out is to basically hotwire the AGP slot to a regualar PCI interface.. It will work, but as slow as normal PCI..

I remember reading, I think it was Anadtech, about a MB that did it right with the bridges to add in real AGP support on a PCIe board.. forgot who made it.. dunno if its going to be released.. and I believe it was for an Intel CPU..

If it's a native PCIe board though, the AGP onboard is like slower than a PCI slot or soemthing like that...I've heard it's just pathetic which really sucks.

[CaptNKILL]

Hate to hear that buddy, what's your budget?
Well I havent really set a budget, but $800 is deffinitely out of the question. I wish I could do it in parts but everything i listed pretty much needs to be all together for things to work properly.

I just bought 512Mbs of Corsair Value PC-3200 (cas 2.5) and a DVD drive for $100. Two purchases I have really been wanting to make. So at least those are out of the way.

I might just go with a mobile 2600+ like I planned before... they are still nice, but it sucks having such an awesome overclocking chip like the 90nm 3000+ and not being able to afford it. That would get me absolute top of the line CPU performance, probably beyond an FX55 when overclocked.

I think a mobile Barton at 2.5-2.6ghz is probably around the speed of a 2800+ A64 though. Which isnt bad, but I dont think its going to get me a lot of performance.

I was noticing in BF1942 running the DC:final mod that on a server that had 50 people it was chugging bad in some places. And when I turned the resolution up or down the framerates stayed exactly the same. I started an offline game and went to the same spot and it was running a lot smoother but was still a little slower there. Changing the resolution didnt do a damn thing offline either. So I figure it has to be the CPU getting bogged down by something.

Half-Life 2 is gonna kill my CPU :(

[CaptNKILL]

hey check this out:
http://www.abit-usa.com/news/2004/20041020.php

Abit is going to make a new nForce 3 board called the NF8.

Bah, nevermind... I just read its Socket 754.

:lame:

[Blacklash]

I found this on a note pad file of mine, it may be helpful with the Neo. I am hearing the best BIOS is 1.36 if you OC. I have been studying this darn board so long I may keep my AGP card and get one myself. I need to change up my rig and get it tweaked, I will be helping to spearhead the founding of a guild in a rapidly approaching MMORPG.


"Just found this out.When you are in the BIOS, his Shift+F2 and then ALT+F3, when you then go into subsections, it will give you more options to set in the BIOS.


First, switch the hard drives to ports 3 and 4 - they are the ones controlled by the Nforce3 chipset and are locked in case you want to OC. Place ram in slots 1 and 2.

Check the bios to make sure you have SATA DMA turned on, its off by default (check under integrated peripherals).What version of the bios are you using? When installing, the order should be :

Windows
SP2
Nforce3 drivers (download 5.10 from nvidia)
Video drivers
any other drivers

For basic bios settings, go into cell menu and set Dram settings to 200, 1T, cas 2, 3, 10, 2
High Performance mode - manual
Aggresive timing - disabled
Dynamic overclock - disabled
HT - 5x
cool and quiet - disabled
CPU ratio - startup
FSB - 200
AGP - 66
CPU volts - startup
mem volts - try 2.7 but check with memory maker for recommended volts, might need 2.8
agp volts - 1.5

See how you go from there.


Yep. Sure can at least as long as you have XP SP1 or later. Just beware that you must enable SATA3/4 DMA (which is mysteriously off by default) and if you disable SATA1/2 the BIOS it will mysteriously reverse your boot order if you also have IDE drives. The solution to the latter is to save your settings then go back into the BIOS a second time to change the boot order to what you want."

EDIT: Important edit to post one on the Panaflo fan, order the optional "fan tail" with it at Frozen CPU, otherwise you get a fan with bare leads.