Gun crime in Britain falls

[zakelwe]

From The Home Office :-

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/n_story.asp?item_id=1111

"Provisional recorded crime figures for firearm offences show a 15 per cent drop in fatal injuries and a 10 per cent fall in the use of handguns"

Gun crime:

Fall of 15 per cent in fatal injuries.
Fall of five per cent in threats.
Fall of 10 per cent in use of handguns.

Increase of 35 per cent in use of replica firearms (replica handguns converted to fire bullets are counted as handguns).

So gun crime went up by 3% but only because imitation gun useage went up by 35% !! So what does this mean, it means being tough on guns means criminals are using imitation hand guns instead, and of course those are a lot safer than real weapons, as the statistics state.

:)

Regards

Andy

[SquireSCA]

From The Home Office :-

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/n_story.asp?item_id=1111

"Provisional recorded crime figures for firearm offences show a 15 per cent drop in fatal injuries and a 10 per cent fall in the use of handguns"

Gun crime:

Fall of 15 per cent in fatal injuries.
Fall of five per cent in threats.
Fall of 10 per cent in use of handguns.

Increase of 35 per cent in use of replica firearms (replica handguns converted to fire bullets are counted as handguns).

So gun crime went up by 3% but only because imitation gun useage went up by 35% !! So what does this mean, it means being tough on guns means criminals are using imitation hand guns instead, and of course those are a lot safer than real weapons, as the statistics state.

:)

Regards

Andy


http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Index/0,3332,205958,00.html

Here, take a few days to read through the pages and pages of articles on gun crime in the UK. This all from what most people consider to be an "uber-Liberal" news agency in the UK.

Also, the UK Home Office is actively trying to downplay gun crime in an effort to not send the message to kids that guns would make them cool or invincable:

"David Blunkett, home secretary, admitted levels of gun crime were "unacceptable" yesterday as he led MPs in condemning the drive-by shooting of 14-year-old Danielle Beccan.

He said there had been an "exponential rise" in gun possession since the mid-1990s, with it stablilising, but still not being acceptable, in the last three years.

But he warned against pretending the situation was "out of control", since this would only play into the hands of young men who believed guns made them look "trendy and invincible". "

[zakelwe]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Index/0,3332,205958,00.html

Here, take a few days to read through the pages and pages of articles on gun crime in the UK. This all from what most people consider to be an "uber-Liberal" news agency in the UK.

Also, the UK Home Office is actively trying to downplay gun crime in an effort to not send the message to kids that guns would make them cool or invincable:

"David Blunkett, home secretary, admitted levels of gun crime were "unacceptable" yesterday as he led MPs in condemning the drive-by shooting of 14-year-old Danielle Beccan.

He said there had been an "exponential rise" in gun possession since the mid-1990s, with it stablilising, but still not being acceptable, in the last three years.

But he warned against pretending the situation was "out of control", since this would only play into the hands of young men who believed guns made them look "trendy and invincible". "


The government does make the most of the good figures, but the figures are good, they haven't changed the figures.

Sorry, I'll take official figures over newspaper editorials anyday.

Regards

Andy

[SquireSCA]

The government does make the most of the good figures, but the figures are good, they haven't changed the figures.

Sorry, I'll take official figures over newspaper editorials anyday.

Regards

Andy

You say that now, but when I posted the Home Office's claims from the Sunday London Times article where they claimed that "crime soars as 3M guns flood Britain", you dismissed it.

So you only seem to agree with "official Figures" when they can be spun to agree with your view.

Besides, perhaps you really have had reductions in gun crime, but is it the result of the ban?

Let's consider US crime rates for a minute. We now have the lowest crime rates in 25 years. We had a 40% reduction in gunshot woundings in the past 10 years. We had the accidental gun death rate drop to the lowest recorded number since the CDC started tracking these things back in 1903.

So what caused all of our massive drops in crime? Was it our ban? Mandatory trigger locks? National registration of firearms?

Nope.

During this time of reduction, we added over 20 million new guns to the population. We now have 43 states allowing citizens to carry concealed handguns. We have no national registration, no mandatory trigger locks.

So your crime might have dropped slightly, but our's dropped by a much larger number, and we added guns, not banned them.

So your conclusion is dodgy at best...

[zakelwe]

You say that now, but when I posted the Home Office's claims from the Sunday London Times article where they claimed that "crime soars as 3M guns flood Britain", you dismissed it.

..

It wasn't a Home office claim, it was an unkown research group doing work for parliament apparently, but apart from in that newspaper article no other evidence for the supposed 3 million guns ever appeared. Unknown source quoted in a newspaper with no other evidence or backup , hardly something to prop up a viewpoint with.

My conclusion is that criminals in Britiain are using more and more imitation arms rather than proper guns due to our tough gun laws which can only be a good thing. Or do you think they are using imitation arms because the criminals are good at heart ?

Regards

Andy

[Drumphil]

GW zakelwe.

and I'm still waiting for anyone to give me any example of where more guns in the community has made people safer..

[vampireuk]

Sorry zak you are wrong, guncrime has risen whereas deaths caused by gun injuries have fallen there is a difference but you seem too stubborn to accept it. Gun crime in the UK has risen, and that is a fact.

[vampireuk]

My conclusion is that criminals in Britiain are using more and more imitation arms rather than proper guns due to our tough gun laws which can only be a good thing. Or do you think they are using imitation arms because the criminals are good at heart ?

Because they are amazingly cheap to get hold of, you can buy something for as little as £20 that looks like a real weapon whereas a real gun would cost at least a couple of hundred in this country. That still does not make them any less difficult to find. There are millions of firearms in this country, our "harsh" laws have done nothing about that now have they?

Edit: also can a moderator merge this thread with mine, it appears he wants to be childish and have a seperate thread on the same subject :rolleyes:

[SquireSCA]

GW zakelwe.

and I'm still waiting for anyone to give me any example of where more guns in the community has made people safer..

Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

They passed a law *requiring* that all heads of household own and maintain a firearm and ammunition.

The result?

Crime dropped 86% in two years and has remained below the national average for 20 years now.

Also consider that gun ownership has gone up 160% since 1975, and yet we have the lowest crime rates in 25 years.

[Drumphil]

1981 (Year prior to Gun Ordinance)
Population: 5,242
Burglaries: 54
Total Part 1 Crimes: 228

1982 (Year Gun Ordinance Passed)
Population: 5,308 (+1% )
Burglaries : 35 ( -35%)
Total Part 1 Crimes: 165 ( -27%)

1998 (Compared to 1981)
Population: 19,000 ( +275%)
Burglaries: 36 (-33%)
Total Part 1 Crimes 227(+0%)


where does the 86% figure come from?

also, thats a pretty small city. A plan like that may work in that community, but I can't see it working on a larger scale. And once everyone has guns, you are no longer the harder target to be chosen last. Anyway, I live in a town that size in Australia, and we have lower crime rates than that.

[zakelwe]

Sorry zak you are wrong, guncrime has risen whereas deaths caused by gun injuries have fallen there is a difference but you seem too stubborn to accept it. Gun crime in the UK has risen, and that is a fact.

Gun crime has risen by 3% but imitation gun crime has risen by 35% so in actualliy gun crime with REAL guns has fallen and it has fallen because, one can assume because either the criminals want to use imitation guns instead or have to use imitation guns, or maybe both.

I made a new thread because your biased selection ad misrepresentation of the real facts were better highlighted in a new thread rather than adding to yours :D

Personally I think they should close your thread as it is so wrong :p

Regards

Andy

[SquireSCA]

where does the 86% figure come from?

also, thats a pretty small city. A plan like that may work in that community, but I can't see it working on a larger scale. And once everyone has guns, you are no longer the harder target to be chosen last. Anyway, I live in a town that size in Australia, and we have lower crime rates than that.

You live in a different country, so the comparison of your town to Kennesaw is irrelevant.

The city is small, but it is a suburb of Atlanta, a very large city.

Look at the numbers that you posted though. Burgleries were at 54 in 1981 when the population was only 5,200 people.

In 1998, the population had almost quadrupled to 19,000 people, yet the burlgery rate dropped from 54 to 46, almost in half.

Why did they quadruple the population, yet cut the burgleries in half? I mean, if the population quadrupled, shouldn't the burgleries have jumped to 200+ instead of dropping to 36?

Why are criminals appearing to steer clear of Kennesaw?

Because burglers know that breaking into a house in Kennesaw is the fastest way to get shot.

[SquireSCA]

Gun crime has risen by 3% but imitation gun crime has risen by 35% so in actualliy gun crime with REAL guns has fallen and it has fallen because, one can assume because either the criminals want to use imitation guns instead or have to use imitation guns, or maybe both.

I made a new thread because your biased selection ad misrepresentation of the real facts were better highlighted in a new thread rather than adding to yours :D

Personally I think they should close your thread as it is so wrong :p

Regards

Andy

How much has crime gone up involving real guns?

Fake guns are simply easier to come by. But real guns are fairly common on the UK, despite your knee-jerk reaction ban.

[zakelwe]

How much has crime gone up involving real guns?

Fake guns are simply easier to come by. But real guns are fairly common on the UK, despite your knee-jerk reaction ban.

10% decrease in hand guns and 32% for all weapons it would seem.

If real guns include shot guns and air rifles / pistols then I agree with you that real guns are common, but they are not banned anyhow.

Regards

Andy

[vampireuk]

Gun crime has risen by 3% but imitation gun crime has risen by 35% so in actualliy gun crime with REAL guns has fallen and it has fallen because, one can assume because either the criminals want to use imitation guns instead or have to use imitation guns, or maybe both.



Personally I think they should close your thread as it is so wrong :p

Regards

Andy

You are a moron, you just said yourself gun crime has risen by 3% and yet you claim it is falling, where is the logic in that? It is a fact, a statistical fact given by this government that gun crime has risen in the past year by 3%. There is no statistic saying gun crime has actually fallen, why is that? Because it has risen by 3%.

I made a new thread because your biased selection ad misrepresentation of the real facts were better highlighted in a new thread rather than adding to yours :D

There are rules and standards that are to be followed at nV News, if there is a thread about the same topic you post in that thread instead of making another thread because the title doesn't suit your political views. Perhaps you should grow up and conform to the set standards instead of trying to look like a pompus idiot. Once I return home from work I'm going to request this thread be merged with mine because this is needless clutter.

[zakelwe]

There are rules and standards that are to be followed at nV News, if there is a thread about the same topic you post in that thread instead of making another thread because the title doesn't suit your political views. Perhaps you should grow up and conform to the set standards instead of trying to look like a pompus idiot. Once I return home from work I'm going to request this thread be merged with mine because this is needless clutter.

I have no problem with that,good idea :)

True, I should have called my thread

"Gun crime using real guns in Brtiain falls while gun crime in Britain using imitation guns rises "

but I couldn't resist the two threads being right next to themselves as a demonstration of how to selectively quote stats under an emotional headline ;)


Regards

Andy

[vampireuk]

Or how about you use real figures and simply accept gun crime has risen by 3%

[Saint Lucifer]

Statistics are wonderful. With so many of them out there, I can simply choose which one to believe in!

98% of people named VampireUK on message boards sit down to pee.

[saturnotaku]

Or how about you use real figures and simply accept gun crime has risen by 3%

You see, because gun crime went down 3% before it went up 3% last year. :D

98% of people named VampireUK on message boards sit down to pee.

Just like 99% of people named Saint Lucifer on message boards, when confronted with evidence they cannot refute, resort to taking pot shots at the person posting.

[vampireuk]

Thats the liberal way for you :D

[Saint Lucifer]

Just like 99% of people named Saint Lucifer on message boards, when confronted with evidence they cannot refute, resort to taking pot shots at the person posting.97% of people named SaturnOtaku cannot detect when people named Saint Lucifer are joking.

Although if I had to choose a side on this, I would be on the side of gun ownership... so really, I don't gain anything by insulting VampireUK (if I hadn't been joking).

Edit: And by the way... I don't think I've ever seriously resorted to a personal attack on this board. Whether it was basically insulting someone for being a conservative, or threatening to piss in their garden if they do not support me. 98% of people named SaturnOtaku should know that. :D

[Yonkers]

97% of people named SaturnOtaku cannot detect when people named Saint Lucifer are joking.

That is better than 99%. :D

[saturnotaku]

Thank God my name is saturnotaku and not SaturnOtaku. I feel bad for those poor schmucks. :D

[DiscipleDOC]

Thank God my name is saturnotaku and not SaturnOtaku. I feel bad for those poor schmucks. :D
(foshiz)

[Saint Lucifer]

Thank God my name is saturnotaku and not SaturnOtaku. I feel bad for those poor schmucks. :DI always add proper case to user names... because people that fail to do so smell bad. :D

On a serious note, though, I understand why you presumed I was being insulting. At times, I can forget exactly how harsh my sense of humour can be and I forget to make my intent clear.

In either case, we all know DiscipleDoc kidnaps orange farmers and beats them with pillow cases full of turnips because he has emotional problems.