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View Full Version : Is possible for Nvidia to buy ATI, or ATi to buy Nvidia, or XGI .. and so on?


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Graphicmaniac
10-23-04, 07:01 AM
I don't know exactly what is happened when Nvidia bought 3Dfx but do you think is possible that Nvidia will buy ATI or XGI or ATI will buy Nvidia or XGI or again that XGI will buy Nvidia or ATI?

I have no idea of how this things works so i would know your opinions. :)

Subtestube
10-23-04, 07:06 AM
It's incredibly unlikely that nVIDIA would buy ATi or vice versa at present. It was possible with 3dFX because 3dFX was leaking money like a sieve. As for XGI, I have no idea how they stand financially at the moment, but if they're in no risk of going bankrupt, then unless they actually want to sell, they have no reason to. I believe that either ATi or nV could probably field enough raw cash to buy XGI, but whether they would or not would depend on the companies current liquid assets, and whether they perceive anything to gain through doing so.

saturnotaku
10-23-04, 07:08 AM
3dfx was essentially bankrupt, and NVIDIA acquired mostly their intellectual property. It wasn't really the same as a merger in the traditional sense (like when DaimlerChrysler was created).

What you're propsing would never happen because 1) both companies (talking ATI and NVIDIA) are extremely strong financially and 2) it would be anti-competitive.

DSC
10-23-04, 07:10 AM
Imagine the PR dept created from such a merger, FUD EVERYWHERE........ :lol2:

mustrum
10-23-04, 07:28 AM
Nvidia bought 3dfx for a almost ridiculous sum. No way nvidia could buy ATI or the other way round.
XGI is about to step into the DX 9 SM3.0 market. They wont allow it to be bought out.
As long XGI is liquid they will stay on their own i think.

Subtestube
10-23-04, 07:31 AM
To reiterate - I agree absolutely with both Saturnotaku and Mustrum. Again though, with XGI, it really depends on how much they're actually making. If they're losing a lot of money (which I strongly doubt) there's always the possibility of a 'merger', but I still can't see it.

CoolZone
10-23-04, 07:32 AM
i'm sure that if nvidia buys ati or ati buys nvidia there will be no more concurence and the cards will be the worst ever and very pricey.

rohit
10-23-04, 07:45 AM
3dfx was bought by nvidia..
(mag) (mag) (mag)

really?

then wat happend to KYRO, Sis, and sll such companies..
i always thght 3dfx doomed.

tyx
10-23-04, 07:49 AM
3dfx was bought by nvidia..


really?

Hmm... I think it happen in 2001.

StaticXtra
10-23-04, 07:49 AM
Interesting, but likely impossible. Imagine Intel buying AMD? Im pretty sure there are anti-trust laws forbidding such a merger even if certain terms were agreed upon. Especially if every upcoming game released would require you to own said-company's card. The PC video game market would fall apart.

Even then, is it possible for an American company to buy/merge with a Canadian company or vice-versa? I'm not an economics buff so I wouldn't know about that one.

msxyz
10-23-04, 09:17 AM
3dfx was bought by nvidia..
really?

then wat happend to KYRO, Sis, and sll such companies..
i always thght 3dfx doomed.
November 2000, if I recall correctly.

PowerVr continues to develop excellent graphic accelerators designs that sadly no company wants to produce.
:lol2: (Now TheBaron will ban me )

S3 was sold to Via back in year 2k and continues to sell sh!tloads of intragrated chipset based on the Savage4/2000 core
:lol2: (Asd but true :) )

SiS discontinued their Xabre line of products only to invest more money in the XGi venture
:lol2: (No comment... )

Matrox, after 3 generations of successful products back in '97-'99, is pleased with its 1% of market share
:lol2: (I wish they'll make a real comeback someday)

Cirrus Logic, Tseng Labs and other famous VGA makers of the '90s all went the way of Dodo.

Hell is hot as usual :)

Pandora's Box
10-23-04, 09:39 AM
I remember there being a news article here at nvnews.net about the smaller graphics companies working together to compete with ati and nvidia.

Chippy
10-23-04, 10:52 AM
November 2000, if I recall correctly.
PowerVr continues to develop excellent graphic accelerators designs that sadly no company wants to produce.


Sort of true. In fact they just decided to concentrate on other markets, and they are doing extremely well in the mobile (i.e. phones, pda's etc) market and also they produce the chips for the Sega arcade machines.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040522053649.html

Their latest chip design "PowerVR Series 5" - which is going into the latest arcade machines - could certainly be developed for the PC market. But they don't really want to do it. The problem with the PC market is that all the money is made with the low-end and mid range cards. And yet you can't sell any of these unless you have a high performing high-end card to gain the respect of the buying public. You have to Wow the public with your top end card so that they will buy your low-end, cheap product. Its rather ironic really.

Anyway, bottom line is to enter the PC market you need at least 3 cards: 1 for the low end, 1 mid range and 1 flagship crowd puller. And its all such a big risk and a load of hassle when you are too busy making good money on other stuff. Shame though - I would love to see a new Shader Model 3, 16 Pipe, Tile based rendering PowerVR card.

The memory bandwidth savings (and the inherent deferred rendering) of the tile based architecture mean that in theory a good PowerVR design could outpace 6800Ultras or X800XT PE's.

Chip

mustrum
10-23-04, 11:36 AM
Sort of true. In fact they just decided to concentrate on other markets, and they are doing extremely well in the mobile (i.e. phones, pda's etc) market and also they produce the chips for the Sega arcade machines.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040522053649.html

Their latest chip design "PowerVR Series 5" - which is going into the latest arcade machines - could certainly be developed for the PC market. But they don't really want to do it. The problem with the PC market is that all the money is made with the low-end and mid range cards. And yet you can't sell any of these unless you have a high performing high-end card to gain the respect of the buying public. You have to Wow the public with your top end card so that they will buy your low-end, cheap product. Its rather ironic really.

Anyway, bottom line is to enter the PC market you need at least 3 cards: 1 for the low end, 1 mid range and 1 flagship crowd puller. And its all such a big risk and a load of hassle when you are too busy making good money on other stuff. Shame though - I would love to see a new Shader Model 3, 16 Pipe, Tile based rendering PowerVR card.

The memory bandwidth savings (and the inherent deferred rendering) of the tile based architecture mean that in theory a good PowerVR design could outpace 6800Ultras or X800XT PE's.

Chip
He has a point there. Look at nvidia and ATI. People say the XT PE paperlaunched but the 6800 ULTRA is not better at all.
The amounts of available cards are ridiculous at best.
Those 2 flagship cards never were meant to make money for the companys.
They're just to show off so the masses buy stuff liek 6600 GTs and x700's. That's where the money is.

AthlonXP1800
10-23-04, 12:12 PM
Hmm... I think it happen in 2001.

November 2000, if I recall correctly.

No, actually it happened on 15th December 2000 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_20010612_6602.html).

AthlonXP1800
10-23-04, 12:18 PM
They're just to show off so the masses buy stuff liek 6600 GTs and x700's. That's where the money is.

Indeed but ATI now have all mainstream products in very tight supply for a while until refresh, they will not able to make money while supply is tight, that mean they will make a loss for this quarter but ATI are not sure how much money they will lose until they post the full quarter results soon.

rohit
10-24-04, 05:21 AM
Well i donno about mainstream's, but in my country, of the amt. of people i kno, atleast 95% still own/love the old generation entry-level cards like GF4 MX440, Fx5200 etc.
And to the guy hu said, that the hi-end cards are jus released to build reputation of the company.. thats correct.
few guyz here bought the dx8.1 supported radeon9200's jus bcoz the 9700/9800pro's wer major hit worldwide.
The reason they didnt buy the FX5200, was bcoz they heard/read the FX Series Hi-End crads literally sukkkk compared to the Radeon Hi-end cards
No sooner they realized that the 5200 was better, in terms of dx9.0 support n stuff, they immidiately switched to these cards.
till now , here, the MX440's sell for 4grads indian value i.e.. ~$100 US, also the fx5200 still sells for ~$110 US.
The dealer hu i bhght my gf6 for says, that he earned mucch much more money frm sellin 5200's/mx440's as compared to the sale of 5900's/9800's
the 9600's/5700's havnt sold as much as the 5200's/mx440's
See Here Is the PROFIT

Rakeesh
10-24-04, 11:01 AM
Interesting, but likely impossible. Imagine Intel buying AMD? Im pretty sure there are anti-trust laws forbidding such a merger even if certain terms were agreed upon. Especially if every upcoming game released would require you to own said-company's card. The PC video game market would fall apart.

Nah they could get away with it no problem. The truth of the matter is that there are still other big players in the market. Granted they aren't nearly as advanced as nvidia or ati, history has always shown that when one is leading by a very large amount over all of the competition, they tend to have higher prices, etc, but somebody always eventually takes the second place slot and it just resumes like normal. The same thing happened when nvidia bought 3dfx...I remember ATi cards were quite ****ty at that time.

XP_GUN
10-24-04, 11:17 AM
No I cant see eather nvidia or ATI buying each other out. But would you what to see it, I mean the performace will go down with no compition every year so insted of seeing a 2x increase we might see half of that.

SElkie
10-24-04, 01:37 PM
One of the nice things about our government is that when major corporations try to purchase other major corporations the gov likes to step in and make sure that a monopoly is not being formed...which in this case it pretty much would be since ATi and Nvidia are in their own league. So the likely hood of one even wanting to purchase the other would more than likely be rejected by the government so that the competitive market would remain.

But then again ATi is a Canadian based company and I'm not sure how international mergers are handled.

Long live competition :inform: :inform: :inform:

Kojiro
10-25-04, 03:40 AM
3dfx was bought by nvidia..
(mag) (mag) (mag)

really?

then wat happend to KYRO, Sis, and sll such companies..
i always thght 3dfx doomed.

They are still here. Do a search on the web ou will find them. SYS mainly does OEM motherboard chipsets. And those motherboards usualy have an SIS IGP.

3Dfx buried them selfs by not supporting hardware texture and lighting. The Geforce 2 32MB and ATI Radeon 32MB suported hardware T&L, and were a hell of a lot faster, and readily availible. The Voodo 4 never hit the retail market, and voodo5s were in limited quantities. This left the 3Dfx champions the Voodo 2 and Voodo 3 to be pitted with ATI's Radeon and Nvidia's Geforce which were not only far more powerful, but fully suported D3D and Opengl.

saturnotaku
10-25-04, 05:37 AM
The Voodo 4 never hit the retail market, and voodo5s were in limited quantities.

Not true, at least on the Voodoo4 part as I had one in my old PII 400 machine. Both cards were available in quantity for at least a couple months before the whole operation went under. In spite of its 32 mb of RAM to compete with the GeForce, my old Voodoo3 was a faster card.

Marcos
10-25-04, 06:50 AM
The companies are all owned by the same super power, much like Pequod's and Quequeg's

Johnmcl7
10-25-04, 11:04 AM
It's incredibly unlikely that nVIDIA would buy ATi or vice versa at present. It was possible with 3dFX because 3dFX was leaking money like a sieve. As for XGI, I have no idea how they stand financially at the moment, but if they're in no risk of going bankrupt, then unless they actually want to sell, they have no reason to. I believe that either ATi or nV could probably field enough raw cash to buy XGI, but whether they would or not would depend on the companies current liquid assets, and whether they perceive anything to gain through doing so.

XGi apparently have massive financial Taiwanese backing, so although they've made no impact yet, they may well do in time.

John

austincraig23
10-25-04, 12:06 PM
someone said that nvidia bought 3dfx for a insane sum of money.

i would disagree.

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-249993.html?legacy=cnet

"Nvidia will give 3dfx $70 million in cash and 1 million shares of common stock for the patents, brand names, and current inventory relating to 3dfx's graphics chip business. In addition, a patent infringement suit between the two companies will be dismissed when the transaction is closed."


since the stock split nvidia has to give 3dfx 2 million shares.... BUT only if 3dfx can pay off its creditors.. WHICH at this moment it can not! so nvidia does not have to pay the stock yet. This was part of the deal so nvidia is not screwing 3dfx in any way.

also nvidia got quite the deal i think,

1. access to patents - good for legal ground
2. stopped litigation against them - good ,, saves money, time, potential losses.

3. acquired Gigapixel tech.
4. acquired 3dfx rampage tech (which i read went into the geforce 4's 2d side.. can anyone confirm this?)

5. got some good SLI engineers.
6. got access to quantium 3d.. which puts nvidias cards in military equipment like the F-22, and tanks , helo's. army equipemnt.

7. got a lot of good employees,
8. eliminated a key competitor. (id loved 3dfx.. im just saying it was good for nvida)
9. got access to 3dfx records such as their plant in mexico.. and future projects such as fear, mojo.

So for a mere 70 million in cash.. they get all this..
and they still dont have to pay the stock.
pretty pimp.
and we are seeing it bear fruit w/ the AWESOME SLI TECH.

i just wish i could get a pci-e mobo w/ 4 or 8 slots so i could hook up 4,6,8 6600's or 6800's.

of course id need a pile of cash and some drivers but man.. it would be killer!

btw... ati or nvidia could , if no anti trust laws apply try for a hostile takeover via the stockmarket. It would cost an insane lot.. you have to get 50.0000001 of the stock to 'own' a corporation

so just take existing ati or nvidia stock out , take 50.0001% , multiply by market price times 1.5 for markup due to hype and vola ..

you own the company.

or if they wanted it they could do a cash/ stock swap.

say 200 million in cash and 5 million shares of stock.

happens all the time.
austin