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arise
10-31-04, 04:02 AM
Just read that some gaming fan wants to sue Microsoft for a failed HDD in his XBOX. Kind of far fetched but...

Well, Nvidia, the Xbox actually had a WORKING HDD in it...do you imagine what would have happened if they shipped the Xbox with a disabled or defective HDD in the first place?

If it's 100% confirmed Nvidia DID ship the 6800/6800GT/6800Ultra AGP series with a defective VPU (and advertised the opposite) then i'm going to sign up for something more serious than a petition!

Your only chance against a wave of very, very nasty and plausible lawsuits is to recall the defective parts, replace them or, in case you won't bother to release another revision, offer a PCI-E version instead.

All this of course wouldn't be necessary if they officialy state the VPU can actually be modified/activated thru drivers/software. Show us benchmarks, i want to see everything on www.nvidia.com. THAT is what i mean by "official", i don't need to read on the inquirer, xbitlabs or whatever.

other ideas?

Subtestube
10-31-04, 04:17 AM
A) This is a forum - nVIDIA are almost definitely NOT going to respond to your claims here.
B) If you're threatening ANYONE with a lawsuit, do it through proper channels. Contact a lawyer and talk to them PROPERLY about it.
C) Wait for the damn November driver release. I realise you're annoyed and angry, but it's been said in at least 3 places I can think of that have stated explicitly "The VPU will be activated in drivers to be released in November."
D) Your claim is not against nV - it's against the manufacturer that sold you your card. At best, you can threaten them with a lawsuit, and THEY can threaten nVIDIA. (Again - seek proper legal advice - I'm not a lawyer, and I'm just going by what I understand on the matter.).

Seriously - if you're going to file for anything, actually do it. Don't rant about it on a forum - that does nothing except make you feel ever so slightly vindicated.

arise
10-31-04, 10:48 AM
A) This is a forum - nVIDIA are almost definitely NOT going to respond to your claims here.
B) If you're threatening ANYONE with a lawsuit, do it through proper channels. Contact a lawyer and talk to them PROPERLY about it.
C) Wait for the damn November driver release. I realise you're annoyed and angry, but it's been said in at least 3 places I can think of that have stated explicitly "The VPU will be activated in drivers to be released in November."
D) Your claim is not against nV - it's against the manufacturer that sold you your card. At best, you can threaten them with a lawsuit, and THEY can threaten nVIDIA. (Again - seek proper legal advice - I'm not a lawyer, and I'm just going by what I understand on the matter.).

Seriously - if you're going to file for anything, actually do it. Don't rant about it on a forum - that does nothing except make you feel ever so slightly vindicated.

right....like no-one else is even bothered to think about it? since i'm not the only 6800 series owner here, and definately not the only one mad about this problem then what's the best way to see peoples' reactions? should i start PM-ing everyone?

so:

a) no *** Sherlock, this IS a forum, you got that right.
b) i just wanted to see the reactions...everyone talks about working/not working, but 400$ are gone for sure and Nvidia didn't even acknowledge anything official (you see any "important info for 6800 users" link on nvidia.com, cos i don't). Question is what are we going to do about it in case the drivers don't work the way they are supposed to. I will damn right start looking into something more serious, because someone is into misleading advertising here. 1 organized mass lawsuit should have better chances than 10000 individual ones, but i guess you already knew that right?

c) the VPU will be activated in November - is this a Halloween catchline or something? Oh let me see, i just bought a V12 Mercedes but the A/C will work only from November onwards...once again, www.nvidia.com has nothing, nada, nix official. Show me the link on their website acknowledging anything. Oh but the drivers will fix it....let's hope they do.

d) my claim (which should be yours as well in case u own a 6800, or if you give a damn actually) doesn't need to be discussed yet. I was just trying to get peoples' feedback on a possbile legal action...hell, you sue McDonalds for hot coffee cups, now that's what i call idiotic (but legally right). Misleading advertising is quite serious actually, you see the point?



or maybe y'all just don't care.......who bought their 6800 to have a working VPU anyway? (mag)

Ruined
10-31-04, 11:14 AM
Just read that some gaming fan wants to sue Microsoft for a failed HDD in his XBOX. Kind of far fetched but...

Well, Nvidia, the Xbox actually had a WORKING HDD in it...do you imagine what would have happened if they shipped the Xbox with a disabled or defective HDD in the first place?

If it's 100% confirmed Nvidia DID ship the 6800/6800GT/6800Ultra AGP series with a defective VPU (and advertised the opposite) then i'm going to sign up for something more serious than a petition!

Your only chance against a wave of very, very nasty and plausible lawsuits is to recall the defective parts, replace them or, in case you won't bother to release another revision, offer a PCI-E version instead.

All this of course wouldn't be necessary if they officialy state the VPU can actually be modified/activated thru drivers/software. Show us benchmarks, i want to see everything on www.nvidia.com. THAT is what i mean by "official", i don't need to read on the inquirer, xbitlabs or whatever.

other ideas?

Problem is that the VPU is not defective, its just not as full featured as originally thought. It does work - it does hardware mpeg2 acceleration, it just doesn't do hardware wmv acceleration. The second revision of the vpu in the nv43 does both mpeg2 and wmv.

seeker010
10-31-04, 11:25 AM
Problem is that the VPU is not defective, its just not as full featured as originally thought. It does work - it does hardware mpeg2 acceleration, it just doesn't do hardware wmv acceleration. The second revision of the vpu in the nv43 does both mpeg2 and wmv.
Didn't they advertise WMV on 6800s?

CaptNKILL
10-31-04, 11:35 AM
I didnt even know about the VPU until after I bought my 6800 GT. I can watch any videos I have and they work fine, I dont understand why a VPU is even needed.

Do people expect to play games, watch movies and encode videos all at the same time? If not, I dont see how this VPU is that big of a deal. Sure it doesnt work as advertised, but most people didnt know that until someone told them.

anzak
10-31-04, 12:28 PM
Take a look at THIS (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce6600gt-theory_6.html).

Edit:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8458&stc=1

r2d2d3d4d5
10-31-04, 12:33 PM
I didnt even know about the VPU until after I bought my 6800 GT. I can watch any videos I have and they work fine, I dont understand why a VPU is even needed.

Do people expect to play games, watch movies and encode videos all at the same time? If not, I dont see how this VPU is that big of a deal. Sure it doesnt work as advertised, but most people didnt know that until someone told them.
Try playing a HD WMV9 movie and then tell me that a VPU is not needed. Without one expect 100% CPU usage and dropped frames on anything less than a top end CPU. nVidia made a lot of its top quality VPU on the NV40s but in the end we got pretty much the same video decoding functionality that GF4Ti cards had back in the day.

P.S. The faster I can encode a movie the better. Encode acceleration would have definitely been welcomed (not sure if this does work).

P.P.S. The ability to have the CPU work on something in the background whilst watching a movie is not a bad thing.

P.P.P.S. I read on a lot of sites that nVidia used more than 20 million transistors for the VPU if itís such a pointless feature it seems like a huge waste of money and time on their part.

P.P.P.P.S. I did know about it before I bought the card.

Ruined
10-31-04, 12:47 PM
Didn't they advertise WMV on 6800s?

AFAIK they advertised it for the "GeForce 6 series VPU". Remember though, that doesn't mean the 6800 has to implement all features of it. Just like they say the "GeForce 6 series is able to support OpenEXR HDR" doesn't mean your GeForce 6200 is actually going to have OpenEXR HDR.

Decimator
10-31-04, 12:48 PM
They could give us a free game or something to make it up to us. :P

anzak
10-31-04, 12:52 PM
Why do people ignore my post. The problem is DRIVERS! The 65.76 is the only driver that enables it.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8458&stc=1

Ruined
10-31-04, 01:01 PM
Why do people ignore my post. The problem is DRIVERS! The 65.76 is the only driver that enables it.

Cuz we aren't debating mpeg2 here. It's the WMV acceleration part of the chip that doesn't work on NV40 (tho it works on NV43).

Arioch
10-31-04, 01:04 PM
We could do the Clockwork Orange torture by taping some of the Nvidia engineers eyes open and have them watch countless hours of "shimmering" action in games like BF1942 and Painkiller. I will also insist we install Rivatuner and adjust the bias by +1.0 for added effect.

That will show those bastards!

;)

msxyz
10-31-04, 01:18 PM
Judging by that table it seems that, with the 61.77 drivers, the 6800 is not able to assit in any way the video decompression. It performs even worse than chips like the 9800 or the DeltaChrome which have the usual IDCT/Motion compensation features!

arise
10-31-04, 02:04 PM
Judging by that table it seems that, with the 61.77 drivers, the 6800 is not able to assit in any way the video decompression. It performs even worse than chips like the 9800 or the DeltaChrome which have the usual IDCT/Motion compensation features!

that's exactly my point.
we need to discuss official links, official drivers, official statements. i mean www.nvidia.com -> dload drivers -> choose os -> choose gfx card -> download.

61.77 are the official Forceware drivers right now, i don't care about betas, ftp directories somewhere in space, guru3d or whatever packages.

@anzak: i see your nice pictures, i also read thru the "dedicated video processor" thread here @nvnews, and it doesn't look clear to me at all. Some say it's the drivers, some say it's the silicon, some say it's the revision, some say "VPU? what's that i never use it" etc.....what matters is that Nvidia said ZERO about it. All we have is some memo from the Inquirer or some benches from xbitlabs or whatever....the best this for Chipzilla would be to come out (no pun intended) and clarify this whole mess for good.

the sooner the better....but then again, silence is also a way of saying things.
all with me on this?

all we have is this:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html

EDIT:
*****
HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEE i"LL BE DAMNED
guess what just materialized (i'm not sure if it was there before) written in tiny letters at the bottom of the page above? did anyone notice it before?

"Note: Certain features of the on-chip video processor will be implemented in a future NVIDIA driver release"

Nv40
10-31-04, 03:06 PM
Try playing a HD WMV9 movie and then tell me that a VPU is not needed. Without one expect 100% CPU usage and dropped frames on anything less than a top end CPU. nVidia made a lot of its top quality VPU on the NV40s but in the end we got pretty much the same video decoding functionality that GF4Ti cards had back in the day.

P.S. The faster I can encode a movie the better. Encode acceleration would have definitely been welcomed (not sure if this does work).

P.P.S. The ability to have the CPU work on something in the background whilst watching a movie is not a bad thing.

P.P.P.S. I read on a lot of sites that nVidia used more than 20 million transistors for the VPU if it?s such a pointless feature it seems like a huge waste of money and time on their part.

P.P.P.P.S. I did know about it before I bought the card.


I really could care less about the WmV9 acceleration...people are bitching for nothing ,(is not like you have bought the wrong hardware no other hardware support for this) i have cableTV and a DVD player so i can watch every kind of movies. Mpeg2 decoding/encoding actually works but for the encoding part you will need to wait for third party software to benefit from this. its have been said many times that its programable ,so more formats can be possible in the future. and it not the software implementation of the Geforce4. benchmark shows that is more efficient even that X800's decoding capabilities.

ChrisRay
10-31-04, 03:13 PM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39741

Same thing I said here, If you want to discuss The VPU for the NV4x which doesnt involve whining. Do so in the Video Processor thread. Threads like these serve no purpose but to start flame wars and will not be tolerated.