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View Full Version : CS:Source - The good and the bad changes...


Vanzagar
11-12-04, 12:58 PM
Been playing source for a few weeks now and just wanted to vent a bit about the things valve has really improved on and other things they have messed up a bit. Overall I think source is really good but could be great with some tweaks. Right now I can't stop playing Source, it's my fricken heroin...

Is there any way we could submit to Valve change requests, if people here agreed with me and ask for changes maybe a whisper could turn into a roar... anyways Welcome any comments and critz...

The Bad
1. The knife. WTF happened here?? Use to be one of my favorite ways of humiliating people. Now when you sneak up on someone and pull out your knife, there's a VERY noticeable "SWOOOOSH" sound, alerting your enemy and giving him time to jump around and fill you full of holes. Now really shouldn't a knife by near SILENT. Also, you would think when sneaking up behind someone, one knife stab to the throat and your victim should be dead, having to slash (left click) 10 times to kill someone with kevlar on is freakin ridiculous. I usually use special weapon knife for the "stab and pull" but you have to be right beside your victim for too long. Then there's trying to knife someone in the head, well I have a hard enough time trying to do that to hostages standing still so forget about that.

2. Bouncing off Objects. I would really like to know the Einstein that thought this up? Bouncing off of fricken barrels and furniture, where the heck did this come from?? Here's a scenario that happens often. I'm inn a fire fight with some T's.. battles not going so well... gotta run around a corner and make for a door... oop there's a barrel partly covering the door. I should be able to easily squeeze past the barrel thru the door. NOPE... BOUNCE! dam it let me through, BOUNCE!, BOUNCE!.... wap wap wap, bullets to the back - I'm dead. Sooo basically the barrel killed me... if they don't take out this bouncing off crap I'll... I'll... I'll still play, but I'll be pissed...

3. Footsteps. Footsteps are really quiet now and have really reduced the strategic element that they offered. I guess the logic here was, "well footsteps really aren't that loud and noticable". Ya maybe, but this is a game and there are a lot of area's CS sacrifices realism for fun (Jumping awpers ring a bell). I thought footsteps was a real great strategic part of the game and really reward patient players and developed ones listening skills. I hope someone comes up with a way of modifying the sound file to boost the volume up a bit... hope this isn't considered a cheat...

4. Walking Slowed down. Walking seems to slow now and makes it almost too tedious to use. Increasing walking speed and footstep volume would be a much welcome improvement.

5. Blood. Not sure why they got rid of blood, but I used to think it was pretty wild see a player in front of you get hit in the throat, then having a long stream of blood come shooting out of his main artery... not necessary but sometimes details can really add to the immersion.

6. Balancing Maps. Could go on for hours here, but an easy way to get my drift is too look at 24/7 servers dedicated to a map and look at the wins/losses. For example, CTS always will have significantly more wins on the map Aztec, then T's. Soooo, wouldn't you alter the maps a bit to give T's an edge to balance the maps. No, instead on Aztec now they add a barrier shelf to the T area (above the ramp), so you can't look out into the water and take out cts rushing the water. There are too many instances of this to point out but, if you look at 24/7 dedicated servers and see 270 T wins and 160 CT wins, tweak the map to help the cts, then re-observe, then repeat, maybe this is a too simplistic way of looking at things...



The Good
1. Physics. Awesome! Love the rag doll effects... seeing a body go flailing through the air after getting naded is great. Being in a fire fight in the market area of Italy and seeing bananas and watermelon flying around is wickedly awesome. Great job... pat on back...

2. Water. Again awesome! Another pat on the back... reflections and bullets hitting water look way cool...

3. Increased Flash time. Good idea! I use flashes a lot, and when used right with good team members can produce great rushes...

4. Not sure if this is even a change or I just never payed attention before (can't belive I missed it, if it was there before 1.6). +3 kills for successful bombing and +3 kills for successful defuse. Nice incentive for T's to plant and reduce spectator waiting time.

5. No shield. Thank god for taking out the shield... hope it stays out. When they added the shield I was thinking oh great what's next, why don't they just add rocket launchers, space ships and laser guns. Not sure if this was done before Source...


People complain about some weapons being different and the hit zones being off, but seriously I really don't notice it being that different. Maybe the AK feels a little less accurate but that's fine.

I don't follow programmers logs so if they mentioned changing some of these things, that's fine I would still feel the same way about it whether they told us up front or not. Also, I didn't like 1.6 or CZ, but I used to played v1.5 and lower a ton, so if some of these changes came it after 1.5 sorry for the mis-reference.

Anyways there you have it, long winded I guess but I did try to get my point across as quickly as possible. Any critz or comments welcome... see you on the battlefield...

Vanz

Mr. Hunt
11-12-04, 01:16 PM
Yeah... the footsteps suck... I really wish they would have replaced the sound.

The no shield thing... I kind of enjoyed the shield... they just had to fix the issue that used to be present (where you were basically invincible)... and complaining about the shield saying "What's next rocket launchers, space ships, and laser guns?" isn't too good of an argument... "Counter Terrorists" WOULD use a riot shield.

|JuiceZ|
11-12-04, 01:41 PM
I'd like to see the shield back. There's actually quite a few things missing from this "Final" version. Valve has supposedly committed to getting them added but most updates aren't scheduled to come until sometime in Dec. Although thing that worrys me is DoD:Source, will it come out on 11/16 w/ merely a small percentage of content vs its older counterpart like CS:S Final has?

|MaguS|
11-12-04, 02:49 PM
No blood? um.. what game are you playing? Im seeing blood splatter all over the wall during gun fights... Only thing they really lowered on the blood was that massive amounts show'd during HS's.

Mr. Hunt
11-12-04, 02:55 PM
I think he is talking about the regular CS... not Source. When somebody got shot in the head in CS a huge stream of blood would spray out. I liked it... but I like how the blood splatters on the walls and stuff now... great fun sniping somebody with a scout and watching them hit the ground :).

|MaguS|
11-12-04, 02:57 PM
Yeah my friend was pissed when they removed the HUGE amount of blood that sprayed out with a HS from an AWP because he claimed it was a good indicator on a hit... i just think hes a sick bastard... I like how the game went with a more realistic blood amount...

Fatman
11-12-04, 02:59 PM
Bouncing off objects with physics is a technical limitation. The server has to verify before the client can execute, if the game was broadband only, maybe we would see realistic interaction with objects.

Blood, IMO there is plenty of blood, check your settings to make sure it's enabled.

Footsteps. Hmm haven't noticed much difference, I can still hear them coming from a good distance away.

As far as shield goes, from what I know Valve stated that it was taken out for good. They couldn't balance it right so they nuked it. Personally, I couldn't care less for the shield.

Overall, I've very impressed with CSS. I'm still trying to figure out and get used to the way shots land, there seems to be a bit more "randomness" to it than in 1.6.

|MaguS|
11-12-04, 03:01 PM
I think the bouncing off objects is a glitch since it really wasn't there during the Closed Beta, I remember being able to push the barrels down the ramp in de_dust and roll it all the way to the T Side, friend and I actually raced once :o

GlowStick
11-12-04, 03:09 PM
I am one that agrees with the hitboxes/weapons accuracy complaint, it is just horrible. However im not sure if its just lag or just awful netcode. But something is defiantly wrong there. I have a feeling that the game mis reports latency to make it seem lesser, mainly because i notice my pings are allways SIGNIFICANTLY lower numberwise on a CS server than any Quake3 based game. However the gameplay feels like crap, so i really am lead to belive that they take off 20ms on each ping to fool people.

anzak
11-12-04, 03:16 PM
I am one that agrees with the hitboxes/weapons accuracy complaint, it is just horrible. However im not sure if its just lag or just awful netcode. But something is defiantly wrong there. I have a feeling that the game mis reports latency to make it seem lesser, mainly because i notice my pings are allways SIGNIFICANTLY lower numberwise on a CS server than any Quake3 based game. However the gameplay feels like crap, so i really am lead to belive that they take off 20ms on each ping to fool people.

Use the net_graph 3 command to see your "true" ping. It's always 20ms higher sometimes even 40ms!

I never played CS before Source. I've always been a fan of (the more realistic) DoD. Speaking of DoD, anyone know an ETA for the Source version?

|MaguS|
11-12-04, 03:16 PM
Actually I get the same ping, I only get a lower ping if I ping the server through DOS. So Im guessing the games ping display is pretty accurate.

DoD:S comes out with HL2 aslong as you purchased a version that includes it.

anzak
11-12-04, 03:18 PM
Actually I get the same ping, I only get a lower ping if I ping the server through DOS. So Im guessing the games ping display is pretty accurate.

DoD:S comes out with HL2 aslong as you purchased a version that includes it.


Really?

Thanks for the info about DoD.

theultimo
11-12-04, 04:12 PM
Actually I get the same ping, I only get a lower ping if I ping the server through DOS. So Im guessing the games ping display is pretty accurate.

DoD:S comes out with HL2 aslong as you purchased a version that includes it.

hmm...havent heard anytning about it, though.

FierceDeityLink
11-12-04, 04:13 PM
There are "_fixed" maps (HL2World) that have proper physics (re-worked entities) for all of the stock maps, but hardly anyone plays them. :/

circuitbreaker8
11-12-04, 05:24 PM
IMO, CS is complete trash...period. I really think Valve should've released a REAL MP and come up with something original for once ( they didn't even make CS right? ) The community is full of @$$holes ( no offence to anyone ) and soon to be cheaters ( already played with a few at my freinds house ) The gameplay is so dated also, quake 3 gameplay with real guns! Seriously though, not trying to bash any CS players, i'm just sick of the whole scene and it would've been awesome if Valve came out with a new MP type.

Riptide
11-12-04, 05:39 PM
Ditto on the idiots. There seem to be a million of them out there and they are ALL playing CS:Source.

Zeta
11-12-04, 06:34 PM
In defense... there are actually very very few idiots. But it only takes one or 2 to ruin a server.

Vanzagar
11-22-04, 07:11 PM
Bouncing off objects with physics is a technical limitation. The server has to verify before the client can execute, if the game was broadband only, maybe we would see realistic interaction with objects.


This makes absolutely no sense. This wasn't a problem in the 50 other versions and apparenlty not a problem in the Beta (as told by other poster), so why in the HECK would this be "technical limitation" now?? Also, if this was the case then why wouldn't we also bounce off walls or each other...

I gotta believe this is a deliberate design intent and hopefully it will be removed soon. I can't believe there's anyone out there that prefers this...

Vanz

WeReWoLf
11-22-04, 07:22 PM
Most of the games i've played in, they're constantly giving out the tilde(~) command and what to change so that their accuracy is better and whatnot. Personally i'm sick of it. If only Gamearena and all the other servers i play on would turn on Anti-cheating.

theultimo
11-23-04, 01:59 PM
Press F10 for cheats always gets them for some reason.. :)