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CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 05:05 PM
I've been trying to play CS:S lately, but some parts of the game run so terrible its rediculous.

For example, on DE_DUST when on the CT side of the big tunnel, looking down toward the T side (especially when hiding behind some boxes) I get frame rates in the mid to low 30s. This really sucks because thats one of the toughest parts of the map and frame rates like that make it nearly impossible to aim quickly and accurately (Im used to playing CS and getting 99fps constant).

I dont have any idea what the problem is, Im just hoping its a bug or a misconfiguration on my part. If this is how CS:S performs, hell, I'll just go back to CS. It plays the same but actually runs good.

I run at 1280x960, AA set to OFF in control panel, AF set to 8x in control panel, Quality mode, all ingame settings maxed. And im using the 67.02 drivers.

I cant imagine that this is a CPU issue, there isnt much going on in CS, especially compaired to HL2 which (despite some similar slow downs) seems to run smoother most of the time. If it is a CPU issue, then how in the world do people with the minimum specs even play the game?

I really need some help guys.

BTW, I just ran the Video Stress Test and got 94.6fps with the same settings I listed above.

superklye
11-22-04, 05:14 PM
So you're still above 30FPS? I thought the human eye couldn't tell a difference past 30FPS...?

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 05:23 PM
So you're still above 30FPS? I thought the human eye couldn't tell a difference past 30FPS...?
No, haha. A lot of people think that but its not true by a long shot. I can tell when i go from 60fps to 80fps. 30 isnt smooth at all, especially not for a fast paced game like CS.

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 06:16 PM
I just played a 22 person game on Dust, with the same settings as before, after a restart.

Performance was about the same. Some spots i hit 25fps, which is just nasty.

Besides being irritating to look at (the choppiness really bugs me) it didnt effect my game much. I still managed to pull out 18\5 (highest score on the server) after about 20 minutes.

I still want to fix this though. I cant stand having such low frame rates with a 6800 GT OC. I should not be getting performance like this :|

EciDemon
11-22-04, 06:29 PM
So you're still above 30FPS? I thought the human eye couldn't tell a difference past 30FPS...?


That's actually true, or rather it's something like 24-26 images per second. That's how much your eyes or brain could see and tell apart. But that dosent mean that you will not notice how much fluent a game is when you play at high FPS, cos that's really different from just 30 fps.

For me I'd need at least 60fps in a first person shooter to feel really comfy with the controls.

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 06:48 PM
Can anyone comment on CS:S performance? Since people first started playing, I was under the impression that it ran really well. But my experience has obviously been much different...

GlowStick
11-22-04, 07:03 PM
good way to test if your cpu limited is to run at a low res 800x600 or 1024x768 and see if your fps takes a huge hit at the same spot, if it dose then its the cpu.

Peoples-Agent
11-22-04, 09:32 PM
Dude, I run at 1280 by 1024 with 1GB ram , 6800GT and an athlon 3400+ clocked at 2.5ghz .... tbh I am astonished you'd even consider running it at that resolution with that CPU .... CPU is ya bottle neck, Source engine is a CPU hog! That's the only reason, but still ...am impressed with ur 3d mark score there.

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 09:50 PM
Dude, I run at 1280 by 1024 with 1GB ram , 6800GT and an athlon 3400+ clocked at 2.5ghz .... tbh I am astonished you'd even consider running it at that resolution with that CPU .... CPU is ya bottle neck, Source engine is a CPU hog! That's the only reason, but still ...am impressed with ur 3d mark score there.
Resolution has nothing to do with CPU speed. And I find it very hard to believe that the game requires a minimum 1.2Ghz CPU and I get 20fps in CS:S because of my 2600+ :lame:

I'll run it with some really low settings and some really high settings to test, but still it seems like more of a bug than anything. I dont see how its possible for it to be this CPU limited on a CPU so much faster than the minimum requirement.

jAkUp
11-22-04, 10:02 PM
It dips very low on my setup as well... sometimes down to 30-40fps. Especially when there is alot of players. I get about the same FPS when I max out the AA/AF.

Definetely a CPU limitation. I think you really need an A64 to get great FPS on Source.

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 10:58 PM
It dips very low on my setup as well... sometimes down to 30-40fps. Especially when there is alot of players. I get about the same FPS when I max out the AA/AF.

Definetely a CPU limitation. I think you really need an A64 to get great FPS on Source.
Well I just figured something out. I turned everything all the way down (640x480, bilinear, no AA, lowest everything) and it ran a lot smoother but still slowed down into the 50s in the same places that it slows to to the 20s-30s with everything up. So i increased the res to 1600x1200, turned on 16xAF (in game) and maxed the texture resolution. I got almost the same FPS as the extremely low settings. So... I dont know what it is yet. Maybe model or shader detail... I cant tell.

It doesnt appear to be a CPU limitation though.

Does the model detail rely heavily on the CPU? I know the shaders dont (well at least I dont think they do).

I'll do some more testing, but I think itd help if some other people tried some different settings too.

Also, we need to see some benchmarks of the game running on the minimum spec system. Im sorry, but I think its total BS that the game would be THAT CPU limited. Its borderline unplayable on my system at least half of the time. I cant imagine it running on a 1.2ghz P4.

Sabadin
11-22-04, 11:07 PM
It IS your CPU limiting you, I went from an 9500 Pro to a 9800 Pro with an XP1700, and my fps change was exactly 0. Popped in an A64 2800 and my frames damn near tripled.

The fact that you can crank up the settings with a negligible change proves that your CPU limited.

CaptNKILL
11-22-04, 11:09 PM
Well THIS is interesting:
http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=118318

I guess the game used to run really well on any machine... :retard:

EciDemon
11-23-04, 12:06 AM
CaptNKILL, if you think about it, it makes sense.

At low res/settings you have about the same FPS as in highres/settings, what does this tell you ?

Obviously your gfx card is up for the task right ?, right.
So there's something else that is holding you back.

_if_ the performance dropped Very much at highres/settings then the gfx card would be the bottleneck as it can not keepup with the greater fillrates needed to render such scenes, but alas it's not.

It is a known fact that the Source engine requiers lots of CPU power, and performance scales up pretty good when you play the game on a fast CPU. I think there was a link about this on the main page a few days ago.

-=DVS=-
11-23-04, 12:28 AM
Hmm i play at 1280x960 (i think) with 4xAA and 8xAF and hardly ever noticed low fps at 32 player server lowest i think was above 60+fps , never had slowdown will double check once im at home , im pretty positive about average over 100fps jumping in between 90+ and 180+ .

I realy doubt AMD 64 would make such a huge difference ? Jackup diping low with his P4 3.0c @ 3.6GHz- 960MHz FSB ?? :eek: maybe its ping related i get anywhere from 30 to 50 ms , with console set (rate 9999).

Driver 67.02 Quality / optimizations on. In game max ( just love new CSS looks and blood splatter :drooling: )

As for Captnkill Athlon XP 1700+ @ 200x10=2000Mhz is definetly keeping you slow.

Edit: i actually playd also at 1600x1200 75Hz without a problem to Source engine runs very well on 6800 ( runs even better on X800 ? ) ,except at 75Hz refresh my crappy monitor is no fun :p . Heck it runs better then original CS , in Source smoke doesn't lower FPS at all its beutifull :drooling:

CaptNKILL
11-23-04, 02:07 AM
CaptNKILL, if you think about it, it makes sense.

At low res/settings you have about the same FPS as in highres/settings, what does this tell you ?

Obviously your gfx card is up for the task right ?, right.
So there's something else that is holding you back.

_if_ the performance dropped Very much at highres/settings then the gfx card would be the bottleneck as it can not keepup with the greater fillrates needed to render such scenes, but alas it's not.

It is a known fact that the Source engine requiers lots of CPU power, and performance scales up pretty good when you play the game on a fast CPU. I think there was a link about this on the main page a few days ago.

Yes I understand how CPU limitations work.

But the thing is that the performance was changing quite a bit when i raised and lowered details model\shader\water details.

I guess it could have just been the activity in the game changing though.

Another thing that ive been noticing is that some times when i turn its noticeably choppy, but the game still runs at over 60fps. It happens a lot more when im looking at boxes\crates. And its a lot more noticeable if i strafe and turn, especially around corners (which is the worst time for choppyness).

Ive tried mouse smoothing, that didnt do anything. Does anyone else have this?

Toss3
11-23-04, 07:00 AM
I have the exact same problem in Hl2 and CS:S :-/ and I also get some difference between high settings and low ... I still think it's a cpu limitation :) btw did you try the 67.02s with lod BIAS set to clamp?

CaptNKILL
11-23-04, 10:54 AM
I have the exact same problem in Hl2 and CS:S :-/ and I also get some difference between high settings and low ... I still think it's a cpu limitation :) btw did you try the 67.02s with lod BIAS set to clamp?
yes thats what im using...

Sabadin
11-23-04, 04:56 PM
Another thing that ive been noticing is that some times when i turn its noticeably choppy, but the game still runs at over 60fps.

"cl_smooth 0" should fix that.

CaptNKILL
11-23-04, 06:48 PM
"cl_smooth 0" should fix that.
Tried that... it didnt seem to do a thing.

Does anyone know exactly what that command does? I thought it was the mouse smoothing command, but when I changed it in the console it didnt change the menu setting for mouse smoothing.

EDIT: Well I just found a comment at a forum about what the command does:
"cl_smooth affects client-server prediction, so while turning it off may make your client side experience smoother, its not an accurate reflection of whats going on in the server.

Will, it is worth trying, the game just wont look as good as it should. "

I guess I'll try it again, but If it doesnt have a noticeable difference im turning it back on. I want to see exactly whats going on :p

Toss3
11-24-04, 05:02 AM
Well, I don't think you'll get any higher framerates.. You've probably tried many different things and settings and nothing have worked, right? So it has to be a cpu-limitation problem.. :) I have low framerates with my 2,4GhzP4@2,8ghz... so the game is very cpu-limited and therefore you won't get higher fps until you upgrade your cpu... that's just something we have to accept :D and if you turn off cl_showfps and net_graph from the console.. I'm sure you won't be bothered by low fps as much :) finished Hl2 that way... :rolleyes:

CaptNKILL
11-24-04, 01:28 PM
Just out of curiosity, can anyone explain why the game is so CPU intensive? I can understand HL2 because there are so many physics and AI interactions going on some times, but in CS:S...?????

People run, people shoot, now there are ragdolls, some times objects move (rarely, since we bounce off of them and cant push them). Im not a programmer but CS ran at 99fps constant before, even in massive 32 person firefights. CS:S becomes CPU limited when 4 people are on screen (not shooting). Im sorry but that sounds like crappy optimization to me.

Toss3
11-24-04, 02:48 PM
yep, sounds like that to me 2 :-) I have 30-40fps in hl2 every now and then... usually it stays above 50 and that's already too low... :( so if someone has a solution please post it here! we need all the help we can get :(

-=DVS=-
11-24-04, 02:55 PM
Probably becouse not everything is done on Video Card , CPU must be doing alot of work.

Just like 3dmark 03 and 2005 very GPU hugnry CPU makes little difference but in 3dmark 2001 CPU is major factor , yet we have similar stuff on screen people moveing shooting ect.

Sabadin
11-24-04, 06:38 PM
Just out of curiosity, can anyone explain why the game is so CPU intensive? I can understand HL2 because there are so many physics and AI interactions going on some times, but in CS:S...?????

If anything I figure CS:S has more physics overhead than HL2 does. For starters, players bounce off objects as opposed to just pushing them, so that's an extra check on top of whatever else the physics tracks. As well each player has weapons and accessories carried on them that are continously tracked and have physics applied to them the instant the player dies.

How often do you get more than 5-6 characters on screen at once in HL2? Now how often do you get the same thing in CS:S? Quite a bit more often right?

And comparing the fps to CS makes no sense, remember when CS first came out a High end rig was IIRC a P3 500 with 256MB PC133 and a 16MB V3 ;)