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View Full Version : 66.93 Forceware GPU throttling in FarCry


WebScriptz
11-26-04, 03:39 PM
Hi there :inform:

I recently installed the Forceware 66.93 release on my machine.
Im running Windows XP Pro + SP2 with DX9c.
Also running an Athlon XP 3200+ on an nForce2 board (Asus A7N8X 2.0 Deluxe) with drivers realease 5.10.
The card in question is a Leadtek A350XT (FX5900XT)
I'm also running a 480W Antec TrueBlue PSU.
I don't have any problems with my system - my logs are clean.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The problem I'm getting is that the latest drivers are throttling my GPU after running the FarCry demo for a while.
I get a message in Windows that the graphics card is not getting sufficient power and has been slowed down. My system events log an error "Silent Running: HW clock slowdown due to missing Auxiliary Power". This obviously makes the demo unplayable.
I then have to shutdown to get my clocks back (wack)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I find it quite annoying, even if I'm not a big FarCry fan.
I'm almost 100% sure this is a driver bug, since I'm running a 480W power supply. I has a dual +12V plug for the GeForce Ultra built-in (square one - 2 yellows). The XT card is plugged into a dedicated auxiliary 4-pin plug (red yellow black black). The problem hasn't occured with any other software, and I've run other games for hours on end to see if it would happen(...)

I also just got my highest score of 15000 in 3Dmark 2001 default without changing any machine settings.
Is this a directX 9 problem? (crazy)

I'd just like to know if nVidia is aware of this problem since it wasn't in the driver release notes.
Is this the right forum to post for nVidia engineers?

Cheers
--JC :bounce:

Templar
11-27-04, 05:02 AM
Far Cry is just using more of the cards transistors henche the extra power needed. The TrueBlue has 22Amps on the 12+ which should be enough but just there abouts.

The Antec PSUs are just your regular China made and developed PSU, it's a notch better then the $20 PSUs but it's just using recycled wires and walking the edge on delivering rated power. There are no extras in the Antec PSUs that could allow you to possibly call them high end, they're mid range and nothing more. Your system needs a lot of power and you should seriously consider the PC Power And Cooling PSUs, those are high end. It just baffles me how people spend so much on their systems and then they don't want to spend anything on their PSUs which is the heart of the system!! Most mid end PSUs will work but who buy's a Ferrari without fuel injection and then fills it with low octane gas?.. No one but this is exactly what so many people do when they're buying their high end rigs and then they go cheap on the PSU or don't do any real research and think that Antec is the best there is.

Do yourself a favor and buy a PSU from www.pcpowerandcooling.com, their service is also unbeatable and those are true high end PSUs and will deliver every single watt they promise.

Simon

r2d2d3d4d5
11-27-04, 05:24 AM
Antec PSUs always seem to get excellent reviews. The TrueBlue has separate 3.3V and 5V output circuitry, which is better than your average PSU. Antec PSUs are also more accurately rated than most and their voltage rails always run very close to spec.

Given WebScriptz's limited stated spec I would say an Antec 480W PSU is more than sufficient.

Antec PSUs are certainly not cheap, as you are suggesting, and they do deliver every single Watt they promise. The TrueBlue certainly has the advantage over the P&C when it comes to the amount of noise generated.

And yes I do have one :), but then you have a P&C.

Templar
11-27-04, 06:34 AM
Nearly every PSU review out there is lacking, not going to write a lengthy article about it most are plug the PSU in read of the MBM or there abouts. I've had 2 Antecs and they were good PSUs but they're no Ferrari.
Antec might rate their PSUs almost accordingly, except for the 550W 12+vcd scandal they so well ignored. See msi.tw forums for info on that one. You stating that underlines my point that most PSU makers in Asia are way to generous with the Watt ratings.

www.amdmb.com for a very good PSU review, they check for ripple and other things most reviewers don't know what mean. They have an Antec unit there and a PCpower Cooling unit as well.

The Turbo cool from PCPower and Cooling isn't a quiet unit at all, that's why they have another silent product line up.

I agree, the PSU should do the work but I'd still want more watts in my rig. I was unable to install windows using a Zalman (Fortron Source special made) 400W PSU with 18Amps on the 12+ VCD, the PSU would shut itself off. I had disconnected everything except 1 hard drive and the DVD and still the same problem.

Simon

WebScriptz
11-27-04, 06:42 AM
Hi there.

Thanks for the replies :nana:
Any case , my point is - I didn't have the problem with the 61.77 Forceware release.
That's why I'm personally convinced this might be a driver problem?
Maybe the driver voltage reporting is in error, and it might even be meant for SLI? :ORDER:

Also, I can run UT2004 for hours on end without any problems.
I can now confirm that I get no problems whatsoever with Doom 3.
Surely Doom 3 taxes the graphics card as much as Farcry (if not more) ?
*Update* No problems with HL2 either(whole day non-stop). That about convinces me.

** I REALLY THINK THIS A DRIVER BUG THAT NEEDS TO BE REPORTED **

Cheers,
--JC :bash:

r2d2d3d4d5
11-27-04, 05:19 PM
You could try disconnecting all the drives and cards you don't use whilst playing the game, also cancel any overclocking, to see if that makes a difference. You could also try connecting the other power cable to the graphics card (you never know it might be faulty).

Ways mentioned in that past to contact nVidia Support are:
http://support.nvidia.com/Content/NVSupport/frmSupport.asp?RequestTypeID=10 (I know it's for nVDVD but apparently it's been known to work - select Technical Problem as Support Type)
also
support@nvidia.com

However, it seems that nVidia would prefer it if people contacted their graphics card manufacturer with any technical problems. It's up to the manufacturer to forward the problem onto nVidia.

WebScriptz
11-28-04, 07:20 AM
Many thanks r2d2.

I've used your nvdvd link to report the problem.
I'm not going to bother changing plugs or disconnecting my cam since nothing has convinced me yet that I have a hardware problem.
I don't do any overclocking, just had coolbits enabled for a while.
Its now disabled again.

Should the driver report the problem with any other software, I'll then start looking at hardware again.
I'll post here too.
So far I'm convinced its a software problem.

Thanks for all the replies.
I don't think my Antec power supply, having a 12V x 2 plug for the Ultra cards, should really have any problems powering an older FX5900.

I'm actually very happy with my TrueBlue 480 since my machine is very stable.
Unless its faulty, who knows? No other signs whatsoever.
Anybody know of any software for testing a PSU?
I have Asus Probe and never seen anything but "dead" straight lines.

I'm not saying Pc Power And Cooling might not be better.
But its a fact that Trueblue is a very quiet piece of hardware, it controls 3 fans on my machine and I can't hear them!
It also lights up my machine in blue for the side window :thinker:

TacT
11-30-04, 04:21 PM
Nearly every PSU review out there is lacking, not going to write a lengthy article about it most are plug the PSU in read of the MBM or there abouts. I've had 2 Antecs and they were good PSUs but they're no Ferrari.
Antec might rate their PSUs almost accordingly, except for the 550W 12+vcd scandal they so well ignored. See msi.tw forums for info on that one. You stating that underlines my point that most PSU makers in Asia are way to generous with the Watt ratings.

www.amdmb.com for a very good PSU review, they check for ripple and other things most reviewers don't know what mean. They have an Antec unit there and a PCpower Cooling unit as well.

The Turbo cool from PCPower and Cooling isn't a quiet unit at all, that's why they have another silent product line up.

I agree, the PSU should do the work but I'd still want more watts in my rig. I was unable to install windows using a Zalman (Fortron Source special made) 400W PSU with 18Amps on the 12+ VCD, the PSU would shut itself off. I had disconnected everything except 1 hard drive and the DVD and still the same problem.

Simon

What an absolute load of rubbish!
Is it just me or didn't anyone notice that he's not running a high end rig? He's running a mid-range rig and that 480W psu should be way more than capable of powering what he has there with plenty of power to spare afterwards too.

Hell, I have the same psu and here's what I'm running off of it:

3500+ (90nm)
1GB PQI turbo 3200
MSI K8N neo 2 platinum
GT clocked to 400/1100
Audigy 2 ZS
CDRW
DVD ROM
2xHDD
5x 80mm case fans
Thermaltake active memory cooler
additional usb ports for printer/scanner/camera/mp3 player

and it has no problems powering the lot either at stock or overclocked to the hilts. Please don't try and tell me that his 480W Antec psu won't be enough to power a 3200+ XP chip based system on an nforce 2 chipset as that is just pure rubbish ffs. I had exactly the same build before and I kept the psu for my upgrade to this current system and it's still doing a fantastic job while not being too loud.

Sure, there's plenty of better psu's out there but I don't think most of us need a small power plant to turn on our pc's in the morning. If you do then you've got a vapo/phase change system or watercooling and you need a beefy psu in that case -- it's getting kind of boring with repetitive postings such as the typical elitist response from templar there, "you don't get a ferrari without fuel injection and put low octane gas in there!"

To that I say, boo hoo to you - your poor elitist attitude that says you have to have the best of everything automatically means everyone else should too :rolleyes:

Guess what - some of us don't have to have the best of everything and will put faith in proven hardware that gets the job done, deal with it. Antec are good psu's, whatever you have to say about them or think of them and they're certainly better than a $20 qtec, are you implying my Antec psu is as likely to go pop as a qtec because I've had them before and they're a bad bunch of psu's no doubt? Saying an Antec psu is of similar build quality is ridiculous, I've had qtecs and other el cheapo psu's in the past and they're certainly no match for the psu powering my system at present.

The guy doesn't have a bloody ferrari, it isn't a high end system (mentioning this again in case you missed it the first time) it's a mid-range system and he has a mid-range psu, it should have no problem with everything whatsoever!

Advising him he made a poor choice initially and then proceeding to tell him he's driving a ferrari is the equivalent to me telling you I am Tarzan and I like to swing around the trees in the jungle screaming as I swing from tree to tree :bash:

Templar
12-01-04, 12:01 AM
Tact, you missed the part where I say I think his PSU should be enough. I have a similar rig as yours so where that places me as an elitist in regard to you? Not that I think being en elitist is a bad thing.

You miss the point, 18Amps on the 12+VCD didn't power my rig and that Antec has 22amps on the same rail. I think that's a too small of a margin to be guaranteed stable operation. Those Amps rating are given to the PSU at 40c (see Antec's site) and most PSUs nomilal operating temps are 50+ and henche you'll see a small drop in Watt rating.

When you can get a 470W silent PSU from PC Power And Cooling with 26Amps @50c sustained for the same price as that Antec Yes I do think you could have made a better choice.

Simon

TacT
12-01-04, 07:35 AM
Tact, you missed the part where I say I think his PSU should be enough. I have a similar rig as yours so where that places me as an elitist in regard to you? Not that I think being en elitist is a bad thing.

You miss the point, 18Amps on the 12+VCD didn't power my rig and that Antec has 22amps on the same rail. I think that's a too small of a margin to be guaranteed stable operation. Those Amps rating are given to the PSU at 40c (see Antec's site) and most PSUs nomilal operating temps are 50+ and henche you'll see a small drop in Watt rating.

When you can get a 470W silent PSU from PC Power And Cooling with 26Amps @50c sustained for the same price as that Antec Yes I do think you could have made a better choice.

Simon

darn tootin I did, apologies - it's a bad thing because nobody likes the chap riding around on his high horse preaching the gospel according to him :)

Templar
12-01-04, 09:05 AM
LOL Tact, if you don't agree that's fine. You should share the reason why with the original poster, might help him out a little or put him on a good track. These are not matters of faith.

Lets keep to the topic.

Simon

macatak
12-06-04, 08:11 PM
Hi there :inform:

I recently installed the Forceware 66.93 release on my machine.
Im running Windows XP Pro + SP2 with DX9c.
Also running an Athlon XP 3200+ on an nForce2 board (Asus A7N8X 2.0 Deluxe) with drivers realease 5.10.
The card in question is a Leadtek A350XT (FX5900XT)
I'm also running a 480W Antec TrueBlue PSU.
I don't have any problems with my system - my logs are clean.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The problem I'm getting is that the latest drivers are throttling my GPU after running the FarCry demo for a while.
I get a message in Windows that the graphics card is not getting sufficient power and has been slowed down. My system events log an error "Silent Running: HW clock slowdown due to missing Auxiliary Power". This obviously makes the demo unplayable.
I then have to shutdown to get my clocks back (wack)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I find it quite annoying, even if I'm not a big FarCry fan.
I'm almost 100% sure this is a driver bug, since I'm running a 480W power supply. I has a dual +12V plug for the GeForce Ultra built-in (square one - 2 yellows). The XT card is plugged into a dedicated auxiliary 4-pin plug (red yellow black black). The problem hasn't occured with any other software, and I've run other games for hours on end to see if it would happen(...)

I also just got my highest score of 15000 in 3Dmark 2001 default without changing any machine settings.
Is this a directX 9 problem? (crazy)

I'd just like to know if nVidia is aware of this problem since it wasn't in the driver release notes.
Is this the right forum to post for nVidia engineers?

Cheers
--JC :bounce:
Found someone else with the same card and drivers that's having the same problem, here's the link http://www.gamearena.com.au/messageboards/tech/thread.php/2799337?startid=0

nIghtorius
12-07-04, 05:20 AM
Tact, you missed the part where I say I think his PSU should be enough. I have a similar rig as yours so where that places me as an elitist in regard to you? Not that I think being en elitist is a bad thing.

You miss the point, 18Amps on the 12+VCD didn't power my rig and that Antec has 22amps on the same rail. I think that's a too small of a margin to be guaranteed stable operation. Those Amps rating are given to the PSU at 40c (see Antec's site) and most PSUs nomilal operating temps are 50+ and henche you'll see a small drop in Watt rating.

When you can get a 470W silent PSU from PC Power And Cooling with 26Amps @50c sustained for the same price as that Antec Yes I do think you could have made a better choice.

Simon

there are always better PSU's on the market.. the only question is.. how much do you want to pay for it. But there is a general rule in the PSU world.. don't spend less than $60 or you will be sorry. I know how painful it is as having a PSU blown out taking around 60% of your hardware with it.

So I didn't take any risks buying a new PSU for my new PC.. one that can power 33 amps @ 12volts. noise ratio @ 12volts is 120mV and on 3.3/5volts it's 50mV.. these are very nice values. it's an Enermax EG465AX-VE 460W PSU

----

but his PSU is way more than enough.. I know that Antec PSU's are of good build.. Crappy PSU's are QTec's and the likes. a 550 watt QTEC for example bites the dust of my old trusty Chieftec 360Watts.

he could always try to uninstall his driver. run a driver-cleaner and reseat his card and install his drivers again. maybe his molex connector is not properly seated. at least it's not in the PSU. Unless it's broken.

WebScriptz
12-19-04, 01:18 PM
Far Cry is just using more of the cards transistors henche the extra power needed. The TrueBlue has 22Amps on the 12+ which should be enough but just there abouts.

The Antec PSUs are just your regular China made and developed PSU, it's a notch better then the $20 PSUs but it's just using recycled wires and walking the edge on delivering rated power. There are no extras in the Antec PSUs that could allow you to possibly call them high end, they're mid range and nothing more. Your system needs a lot of power and you should seriously consider the PC Power And Cooling PSUs, those are high end. It just baffles me how people spend so much on their systems and then they don't want to spend anything on their PSUs which is the heart of the system!! Most mid end PSUs will work but who buy's a Ferrari without fuel injection and then fills it with low octane gas?.. No one but this is exactly what so many people do when they're buying their high end rigs and then they go cheap on the PSU or don't do any real research and think that Antec is the best there is.

Do yourself a favor and buy a PSU from www.pcpowerandcooling.com, their service is also unbeatable and those are true high end PSUs and will deliver every single watt they promise.

Simon
Hi Templar

I hope you still read this, since the topic is preety old.
I just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation, even though I don't think I'd get another PSU that easy at this stage.

I just happened to run into the Antec specs for my TrueBlue 480 and realised that it also claims a 22A output on the +12V output.

I'm still preety happy with it, I just think I ran into a driver bug with FarCry, since I have no other problems whatsoever thus far. Or maybe the bug is specific to the Leadtek card. Or maybe still it's that nVidia won't support "older" FX cards as well as the 6800 series.

I'm hoping next driver release won't have the same problem (?)
As for that "Ferrari" spec I think I'll be working on it for a while longer this time..

Cheers,
--JC

Peoples-Agent
12-19-04, 11:14 PM
I am running a 12 450 watt power supply and everything works 101% fine, so I can honestly say I don't think that is to blame unless yours is faulty, but you would have noticed that on other games too I would have thought.

WebScriptz
12-27-04, 01:54 PM
Last words?

First of all Seasons Greetings! (santa2)

** EDITED **

I ran a probe with a voltage history graph that
keeps straight all the way through nVidia Sentinel messages.
Before disabling the service I decided to look at a couple of things.

Why do GPUs throttle?
Also, why did this happen again , now with a totally diffferent game?
Why did it only happen after running it for a few weeks?
Why is someone with the same card having the same problem on different software still?

Well after all this I also looked at something else.. the climate!
I forgot to mention I live in Africa.
Needless to say how hot days can get.
Well both times my card throttled the day was just that: VERY HOT!
(WinFox told me that)

What if the Sentinel service is right, except that there's a temperature problem, ** not a voltage problem ** ?
Well the "bargain" Leadtek FX5900XT comes with a "bargain" cooling solution.
There's even nothing to cool the memory.

That's how I ended up fitting that second fan in the case after alll (5 mins).
My case now has much improved airflow (during extreme stress as well).
>Air is now forced to circulate in one direction>

Its another hot day today. Still..
First I noticed how my 3dMark score came back higher!
No throttling in FarCry!! *problem solved*
After monitoring GPU temperature I also noticed how it now falls under 70C.

I'll be pushing the system for a while from now.
So far I get no problems whatsoever.

I really think people should look carefully at their case cooling.
I'm now convinced it makes a BIG difference.
So the conclusion is:

** I'm reporting a bug with the nVidia Helper service v66.93
** Its merely a glitch(?), since it reports wrongly on a voltage problem before throttling the GPU. It should report on temperature.
It's not a software compatibility bug (apologies for that)

So that makes me a happy customer of both Leadtek and nVidia all over again.
I'm getting excellent image quality and +-100 fps in HL2!
I think my lack of experience in system building started all this.

** DON'T switch that Sentinel service off!
It might just be trying to do you a favor.
Now I think It'll be time to enjoy the new year !


(xmassign2)