Overclocking AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton [Archive]

Rudd878

11-26-04, 08:33 PM

Hi, new to the forums. I have a question regarding overclocking the AMD Athlon XP 2500+ to the 3200 speeds. I've read a lot into it, and it seems all you have to do is go into the BIOS and change the FSB from 166 to 200. What risks are there in this, if it backfires?

Here are my specs:

Biostar M7-NCD Pro
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton
Kingston 1024 MB, PC3200, DDR400 RAM
Maxtor 120 GB HD, 7200 RPM
BFG 6800 GT OC, 256 MB
420-Watt PSU
3 CaseFans, 1 HeatSink

I'm a little worried about my motherboard. It's not a top of the line board, although it is very stable at an afforable price. Would it be possible (with my current rig) to OC the processor to 3200? My CPU runs at 41 degrees Celcius idle, not sure when running games. I'm a big gamer, and I don't want my processor to bottleneck my system. Just bought a new graphics card as you can see above.

So should I go for it? Or is it too risky?

Rytr

11-26-04, 10:26 PM

Welcome to the forums!

What happens is, if it will not run at 200FSB it will lock up and you will probably have to completely shut down unplug from your power source and reset the CMOS to be able to boot back into windows. You can potentially damage one or more of your components by trying a big jump like this all at once. So I would suggest, if you decide to try, just take your time in upping the FSB in small increments and testing at each setting for stability and heat buildup. Going all the way to 200FSB the first thing is not a good idea.

Some have been successful with your board running at 11x200, dual channel, and some have had difficulty. A couple of cases required lowering the multiplier while another case required not running dual channel as the ram was not apparently compatible enough to run DC.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 09:06 AM

What ever you decide to do, voltage/fsb/multiplier/cooling. keep the core/cpu temp below 57-55 c under heavy loads for stability. The good thing is that you wont loose much money if you kill it.
Your temp's are low, but make sure you are taking your temp in the hottest enviornment and heavy load your comp will experience. heat sink cleaning (dust) will be more frequent too as it will slowly increase your temp's as dust builds up, expecially with fast fans.
Proceed slowly, changing only one thing at a time by small increments. I suggest keeping your cpu core voltage below 1.85v.

Rudd878

11-27-04, 11:48 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I went into my BIOS and the only options it gives me for FSB are 100, 166, and 200. Do I need to 'unlock' my FSB? If so, how? I'm not the best with computers, although I know the basics.

Also, I've never messed around with voltages. I'm running my 2 sticks of Kingston RAM in Dual-Channel, and I'm not sure what a multiplier is. So any insight on what I should change as far as voltages and multipliers go would be extremely helpful (and how I go about doing this ;) )

Sorry if I sound like a (newb) . I just want to get the most out of current rig, without spending much $$$. Yeah, I'm cheap :D Thanks for any replies, much appreciated.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 12:59 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I went into my BIOS and the only options it gives me for FSB are 100, 166, and 200. Do I need to 'unlock' my FSB? If so, how? I'm not the best with computers, although I know the basics.
You would need to set it to a user managed mode (if any) to get to any of the other settings, or if you posted the mother board model, another user may be able to tell you where the settings are.

Also, I've never messed around with voltages. I'm running my 2 sticks of Kingston RAM in Dual-Channel, and I'm not sure what a multiplier is. So any insight on what I should change as far as voltages and multipliers go would be extremely helpful (and how I go about doing this ;) )

Your clock speed is obtained by multiplying a number by your FSB. For instance:
a multiplier of 10, times a FSB of 133MHZ (or 266MHZ - Note: your highest setting of 200MHZ is really 400MHZ memory speed...200x2) would make a cpu run at 1330MHZ which would require memory that will run at 266MHZ. Which is why I don't think you'll be using your 200MHz fsb, unless your memory is really good, you would want pc3200 to hit 400FSB. Your multiplier setting's are a way to increase your cpu clock without increasing memory at the same time.

One of the most important things to consider is whether your PCI bus is locked. if it isn't, then when you use a FSB other than 100/133/166 or 200, you will also be changing the clock of your PCI bus, which includes your hard drive, if the hard drive fails while overclocked, you could corrupt windows so bad that you can't even use it. You can catch it by doing it in small increment's.
If reinstalling windows isn't an option, than you would be safer not overclocking.
I suggest doing a google for overclocking, and visiting some of the dedicated overclocking sites for more info and "How to" articles.

superklye

11-27-04, 02:33 PM

superklye

11-27-04, 02:37 PM

http://www.newgenerationorder.org/files.html

It's down a few lines on that page. It's the C1/C2/C3 cooling patch

Woodelf

11-27-04, 03:14 PM

I've got the same mobo as you (I love it, personally...it doesn't have all the features, but it's got the most needed ones and it's only like $45) with a 2600+ OCed to 2.2GHz (a 3200+) and I've had no problems.

Use the patch that allows your CPU to use different cooling instructions. It lowered my idle temps to by like 5 and load up to 15 degrees. I'll find the link and post it for you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll be fine. :)
Are you sure that's not just an idle throttler like rain?.
Are you sure your temps under load are being sustained for long periods and that your not just feeding your cpu lowered case temp caused by the lower idle?. Because unless you play games for 15min at a time, it wouldn't make a difference, besides keeping your room cooler.
If you are running cooler under load for sustained
period's, are you benching the same?.

superklye

11-27-04, 03:47 PM

Are you sure that's not just an idle throttler like rain?.
Are you sure your temps under load are being sustained for long periods and that your not just feeding your cpu lowered case temp caused by the lower idle?. Because unless you play games for 15min at a time, it wouldn't make a difference, besides keeping your room cooler.
If you are running cooler under load for sustained
period's, are you benching the same?.
Yes, I'm sure. Over the summer, when playing Far Cry, my load temps would reach 68-72 degrees...now playing they don't go much higher than 55-60 usually and that's after an hour or more of playing.

I don't run benchmarks because I don't give a ****. If games look good and play well, that's all I care about.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 04:03 PM

Yes, I'm sure. Over the summer, when playing Far Cry, my load temps would reach 68-72 degrees...now playing they don't go much higher than 55-60 usually and that's after an hour or more of playing.

I don't run benchmarks because I don't give a ****. If games look good and play well, that's all I care about.

I can't believe you ran at 68-72 stable. Your barely overclocked.
I don't consider your testing as being accurate because:
1. It's not summer anymore.
2. You don't benchmark. even if you don't give a ****, someone asking for advice on overclocking
might want a proven accurate response.

superklye

11-27-04, 04:32 PM

I can't believe you ran at 68-72 stable. Your barely overclocked.
I don't consider your testing as being accurate because:
1. It's not summer anymore.
2. You don't benchmark. even if you don't give a ****, someone asking for advice on overclocking
might want a proven accurate response.
I ran Prime95 for 12 hours before the patch and got up to 73 degrees. EDIT: After the patch, it hung around 63 when doing the Prime95 tortue test. The central air was on at 60 degrees...and what do you know, the house is 60 degrees right now...so I guess the fact that it isn't summer doesn't mean anything.

And the fact that it has run stably for 4 months isn't benchmark enough, huh?

You got a problem with me or something? Because you can losing the ****ing 'tude any time.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 04:51 PM

I ran Prime95 for 12 hours before the patch and got up to 73 degrees. EDIT: After the patch, it hung around 63 when doing the Prime95 tortue test. The central air was on at 60 degrees...and what do you know, the house is 60 degrees right now...so I guess the fact that it isn't summer doesn't mean anything.

And the fact that it has run stably for 4 months isn't benchmark enough, huh?

You got a problem with me or something? Because you can losing the ****ing 'tude any time.
No ****ing tude.
I'm not talking about stability when questioning the throttling program. I wanted to know if it was thottling during peak usage when it shouldn't be, but since you seem to like to do thing's without verifying them, and can't get a decent response from you with out your crying about anyone who questions your amature methods of computing, then I see no point to take your opinion with anything less than a grain of salt. 60 deg f in the summer (I'd hate your electric bill). So 60 deg f room temp, 70 deg c cpu temp,
and a (what) 70MHZ overclock tell me that you haven't the faintest idea of what your doing, and you'd be better off keeping your gimmicks to your self, instead of speading missinformation mearly for the effect of ramping up your post count.
Prove me wrong.

CaptNKILL

11-27-04, 05:05 PM

fight!
fight!
fight!
fight!

:p

superklye

11-27-04, 05:10 PM

No ****ing tude.
I'm not talking about stability when questioning the throttling program. I wanted to know if it was thottling during peak usage when it shouldn't be, but since you seem to like to do thing's without verifying them, and can't get a decent response from you with out your crying about anyone who questions your amature methods of computing, then I see no point to take your opinion with anything less than a grain of salt. 60 deg f in the summer (I'd hate your electric bill). So 60 deg f room temp, 70 deg c cpu temp,
and a (what) 70MHZ overclock tell me that you haven't the faintest idea of what your doing, and you'd be better off keeping your gimmicks to your self, instead of speading missinformation mearly for the effect of ramping up your post count.
Prove me wrong.
I can't even understand half of what you're typing.

I have 38-44C idle temps and 55-60 load temps after installing that patch when before I had 52-56 idle temps and 65-72 load.

If you read what the site said about the patch, you would know it ISN'T a throttling program, it uses different, more efficient/better cooling instructions for the CPU.

superklye

11-27-04, 05:24 PM

And what 70MHz overclock are you talking about? Barton 2600s run at 1.917GHz, so using simple addition, we come up with 283MHz OC.

And I'm an amateur? At least I can add.

Rudd878

11-27-04, 05:25 PM

Woodelf

11-27-04, 05:29 PM

I can't even understand half of what you're typing.

I have 38-44C idle temps and 55-60 load temps after installing that patch when before I had 52-56 idle temps and 65-72 load.

I was refering to how you managed to get up to 70 deg to begin with, considering your overclock and room temp.

I ran Prime95 for 12 hours before the patch and got up to 73 degrees.

If you read what the site said about the patch, you would know it ISN'T a throttling program, it uses different, more efficient/better cooling instructions for the CPU.
Honestly I don't know what the "patch" is doing, which was why I inquired whether you benched, I wanted to know if it was decreasing your clock under load, or some how disabling your performance to obtain low temp's under load.
I tried a google search before posting a response to you, but the majority referred to it as being an idle throttler, so that's why I wanted to know if you benched under load.

superklye

11-27-04, 05:30 PM

And what 70MHz overclock are you talking about? Barton 2600s run at 1.917GHz, so using simple addition, we come up with 283MHz OC.

And I'm an amateur? At least I can add.
bump

superklye

11-27-04, 05:35 PM

I was refering to how you managed to get up to 70 deg to begin with, considering your overclock and room temp.
As I have posted already:
Barton 2600+ = 1.917GHz
2.2GHz-1.917GHz = 283MHz

Honestly I don't know what the "patch" is doing, which was why I inquired whether you benched, I wanted to know if it was decreasing your clock under load, or some how disabling your performance to obtain low temp's under load.

This is all I know: it is an optimized driver for CPU cooling instructions and people on this board are the ones that mentioned it. The Readme says:

"nForce2 C0/C1/C2 Cooling Patch by The NGO Group (NT/Windows 2000/Windows XP/Windows 2003)

this patch will allow nForce2 chipset based motherboards with AMD cpus
to use C2/C1 idle state (S2K bus disconnection and reduce idle/load
temperatures by 1-10c degrees!"

I tried a google search before posting a response to you, but the majority referred to it as being an idle throttler, so that's why I wanted to know if you benched under load.
Well, I don't know what to tell you other than my games have been running smooth as hell and my CPU is much cooler than it was before.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 05:47 PM

As I have posted already:
Barton 2600+ = 1.917GHz
2.2GHz-1.917GHz = 283MHz

Sorry, I mistook your barton for a thoroughbred.
And no I didn't literally subtract the numbers to come up with 70MHZ.
Anyway, I might give it a try once I see it won't decrease performance under load.
Is this patch permanent?.

superklye

11-27-04, 06:06 PM

Sorry, I mistook your barton for a thoroughbred.
And no I didn't literally subtract the numbers to come up with 70MHZ.
Anyway, I might give it a try once I see it won't decrease performance under load.
Is this patch permanent?.
Nope, you can take it off whenever you want to. You run the .exe and then have to reboot. After that, if you don't like it, you can remove it via add/remove programs.

Woodelf

11-27-04, 06:30 PM

OK people!!! LOL

Ya know, I'm not very good with computers like I said. And it seems this is not as simple as I first thought it would be. I was thinking about upgrading both my motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-490&depa=1) and my processor (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120786)

Here my PC's specs from my 1st post:
Biostar M7-NCD Pro
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton
Kingston 1024 MB, PC3200, DDR400 RAM
Maxtor 120 GB HD, 7200 RPM
BFG 6800 GT OC, 256 MB
420-Watt PSU
3 CaseFans, 1 HeatSink

I'm thinking my CPU is being a bottleneck in this situation, and I think the 64-bit 3400+ will do the trick. Also, I've heard good things about Asus motherboards and I'd like to have the highest quality board.

Should I go for the upgrade? Is my CPU causing a significant bottleneck in my current rig, where it'd be worth it to spend 200 on a new CPU and 114 on a new motherboard.

By the way, thank you for all your help. I'll definately come back here for any future questions.
I know some people swear by the 64's. If you decide to, I'd go with the 939 pin for future upgradeability. I'd also check out some of the reviews on your GT, check out the benches (for comparison) with athlon 64's. compare them to your own bench result's. You can get links to some of the benchmarks through Nvnews. That's how I all ways came up with reasons to upgrade. With so many variations of the same speed in hardware, the only way to get a decent idea of when to upgrade is to compare benchmarks. Remember to set up the same as the reviewer. :)

Rytr

11-27-04, 06:31 PM

I'm thinking my CPU is being a bottleneck in this situation, and I think the 64-bit 3400+ will do the trick. Also, I've heard good things about Asus motherboards and I'd like to have the highest quality board.

Should I go for the upgrade? Is my CPU causing a significant bottleneck in my current rig, where it'd be worth it to spend 200 on a new CPU and 114 on a new motherboard.

By the way, thank you for all your help. I'll definately come back here for any future questions.

Your system should see a boost in performance if you can run at 200 FSB and I think there is an excellent chance for that (after all, your ram and motherboard are rated to run at 200FSB and the cpu has proven time and again that it can). I have put together at least a half dozen NF2 boards using Abit, Gigabyte, Soltek, and MSI. Maybe luck, but all 2500+ Bartons on these boards achieved 2.2GHz (11x200) minimum with good ram configured for dual channel. BTW, I used the ram you have on my daughter's Gigabyte board and it runs at 200 FSB with a 2500+ (locked) Barton and for the past year it has proven to be an excellent all around dependable system. It has to be as she is away at school and a high maintenance system would not be acceptable.
The A64 754-pin NF3 based system will improve your gaming experience but for $300, that's up to you. I have two excellent 754-pin boards, one on a Via chipset (w/3000+ A64) and the other on a NF3 chipset (w/3400+ A64) and both are excellent for gaming. Save a few more dollars and you could upgrade to a 939-pin NF3 motherboard with a 3500+ which are starting to show general performance increases over the 754-pin variety.
There are so many available options with more arriving that it is very confusing in deciding what upgrade path to take. Whatever you decide on, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Rudd878

11-27-04, 08:09 PM

Very, very informative. Thank you. Yeah, I think I will try changing the FSB from 166 to 200, seeing as you've had prior success in doing so with several systems. I mean, I will still get great performance on most games (despite not having the 'best' CPU out there) If I overclock my 2500 to a 3200, that's not bad. A 3200 is respectable right? I hope I am making the right decision here. I have solid RAM, properly installed in Dual-Channel mode, running at high speeds. My board is questionable though. It's not a 'mainstream' board, but if you look at reviews of it, it does the job. I don't know, I'm blabbering. I'm going to give the OC of the CPU a shot.

Who knows.. I'll save up some cash, and if the opportunity comes where I feel an upgrade is necessary.. I'll go for it. Til then, we'll see how this OC goes. Thanks again for the replies...