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View Full Version : Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.


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Anker Steadfast
01-30-05, 01:44 PM
Ack .. you are right.

Still, should be good for this particular game I'd think.

ChrisRay
01-30-05, 05:36 PM
After considering the aspects of how the graphics engine of EverQuest II works, I've been thinking about what CPU would be the best.

Obviously it'll need a lot of RAM access, since so much is worked there, and a big 2nd level cache would be good as well. Most likely it would need a fast front side bus too.

Sounds like the latest P4 Extreme Edition would fit perfectly.
They have a Socket 775 version that runs 1066 MHz FSB and has a solid 2 MB L2 cache.
Add in a nice Raid harddrive and overclock the CPU slightly (if you can) and it should yield some great FPS in EQ II on pretty much any of the newer graphics cards.


Thoughts and ideas ?




btw : Did ChrisRay do all his tests with the same CPU ?


All on an athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2 Ghz. I have recently replaced my CPU though.

Anker Steadfast
01-31-05, 12:26 PM
All on an athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2 Ghz. I have recently replaced my CPU though.

Ooo ... do tell, was it much of an improvement in EQ II ?

Nuvian
01-31-05, 03:55 PM
annoying paying 500 bucks for a new card 2 find out i could have spent 150 bucks insted,thats my main issue with this,the graphics are fine,so i dont care about that,but whats the point spending alot of cash on this card if the game run aswell with a 9800pro?

ChrisRay
01-31-05, 06:12 PM
Ooo ... do tell, was it much of an improvement in EQ II ?


I'm in the process of rmasing a defective motherboard, It was kinda broke when I recieved it. New one should be here tommorrow though.

Anker Steadfast
02-01-05, 08:37 AM
Oh good .. I must admit that I'm rather curious as to how much of a difference it will be.

You might say that curiosity is killing the cat here. :p

ChrisRay
02-01-05, 05:54 PM
Oh good .. I must admit that I'm rather curious as to how much of a difference it will be.

You might say that curiosity is killing the cat here. :p

Well new system is here. So far I can say "much" better. ;) Havent had much time to really bench it though.

Vlahka
02-01-05, 08:59 PM
Jesus christ, AMD64 3800? You make me cry, Chris. Really, you make me cry..

ChrisRay
02-01-05, 11:59 PM
Well. I recently required a new review system and I have discovered some interesting things. I'm not quite sure if I can explain the results yet, Actually I find it rather inexplicable. My play settings have always been 1156x864 with 4xAA/16xAF. So keep that in mind.

I recently aquired this hardware to replace my AGP system which was.

Athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2ghz
400 FSB
Nforce 2 400 Ultra
Geforce 6800GT
1 Gig Dual Channel DDR memory.

Replacement.

Athlon 64 3800+ @ 2.4 Ghz
Asus K8N SLI Deluxe (Nforce 4 Ultra)
Geforce 6600GT 2x SLI (128 Megs)
1 Gig DDR memory.


The Primary system has of course been downgraded due to me keeping my main memory and using older memory and that setup. Which is now.

Athlon XP 2500+ @ 1.86 Ghz
640 megs DDR333 Memory
Nforce 2 400 Ultra
Geforce 6800GT (128 Megs)



Keep in mind. While I can enable SLI in my drivers with the 71.80 drivers and it works fine EQ 2. It wasnt enabled when I did my initial tests and first got it. Since it would be pointless to compare performance of an AGP Athlon XP system to a PEG Athlon 64 system. I wont bother with benches in this case. However I can run at the same settings I could with my prior system with my new SLI setup with just 1 6600GT and get much much better performance. This is with Textures set at High (256 Setting?)). What I find peculiar about this is a 6600GT is about 30% slower in most cases to a single 6800GT. And with 256 Megs of ram this should make a substancial difference at my settings. But it simply doesnt. The game runs faster and quite a bit better with a single 128 Meg card on a faster processor than a 256 meg card on a slower processor. Meaning the 256 meg requirement for high textures can be that severe since I'm also doing 4xAA which increase framebuffer requirements.

In other words. 256 Meg doesnt seem to be making a substancial difference for me. Another Note. Enabling SLI works. But it doesnt really improve performance, Doesnt make it worse. Hinting further at CPU limitation

My thoughts anyway. I cut and past this over on the EQ 2 forums.

Anker Steadfast
02-02-05, 09:34 AM
My thoughts on that find ...

The difference on amount of RAM on graphics cards becomes fairly small if you use compressed textures, because then the AGP / PCI-E16 but have plenty of bandwidth for swapping textures between main RAM and Graphic card. And since the game isn't Graphics card centered game anyways, you end up with the CPU bottleneck once again.

Try and see if you have compressed textures on. If they are and you turn them OFF, you ought to see a bit more of a difference due to texture trashing. No idea how big the Textures really are though, SOE never mentioned that AFAIK.

Does your old CPU fit in the new mainboard ?
That would be an easy way to test the difference on CPU's.
Unless you can Underclock it ... that would be even easier. :)


Btw :
You mention that you run the 6600GT on the faster CPU platform, that also has more DDR-RAM.
The difference in Main RAM on the two systems ought to make a difference too.
Might be part of what makes the machines so identical.

ChrisRay
02-02-05, 04:54 PM
No I was making a comparison to my old system. Both systems had the same amount of memory and the texture quality is exactly the same. The final system specs were to just give you an idea of what happened to the old rig and its current status.

Elderblaze
02-03-05, 01:53 AM
The only reason this game is CPU bound is it has ****ty code. There's really no excuse for it. It dosent have a great physics engine like Havok, the AI is nothing spectacular, and the overhead of a MMO should not be that massive, as we can look at other mmo's that do just as much and arnt dog slow. In conclusion, EQ2's code is shoddy ps1.1 crap written by monkeys stuck in 01.

PeterJensen
02-03-05, 02:04 AM
I still dont get it. I willl bet my one ball on that nvidia on sometime showed EQ2 with SM 3.0 support :)

Sorrow
02-03-05, 08:30 AM
The only reason this game is CPU bound is it has ****ty code. There's really no excuse for it. It dosent have a great physics engine like Havok, the AI is nothing spectacular, and the overhead of a MMO should not be that massive, as we can look at other mmo's that do just as much and arnt dog slow. In conclusion, EQ2's code is shoddy ps1.1 crap written by monkeys stuck in 01.

It's because SoE is too lazy to run 3/4 of the extremely processor-dependent code on their own servers!! :mad:

note: don't take me serious....

ChrisRay
02-04-05, 12:35 AM
I just got finished investigating SLI and EQ 2, I got some performance benches performed. At this moment I have no intention of posting them however, I want to further investigate it a bit.

ChrisRay
02-07-05, 06:32 PM
Incase anyone is curious. I did include EQ 2 in my SLI Analysis Thread (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45422)

killahsin
02-07-05, 07:55 PM
Interesting so EQ2 is insanely cpu bound than by those results. But thats pretty much known already considering how cool the gpu runs when playing eq2 vs most other games, including even cpu heavy ones like hl2.

|MaguS|
03-01-05, 03:42 AM
Yay! I joined you guys. Since going nForce3 I am now getting horrible stuttering during combat... haven't even dared to enter a city since my "upgrade".

|MaguS|
03-01-05, 04:22 AM
NM Fixed it by turning on VSync and Triple Buffering.

Madoron
03-15-05, 03:57 AM
The only reason this game is CPU bound is it has ****ty code. There's really no excuse for it. It dosent have a great physics engine like Havok, the AI is nothing spectacular, and the overhead of a MMO should not be that massive, as we can look at other mmo's that do just as much and arnt dog slow. In conclusion, EQ2's code is shoddy ps1.1 crap written by monkeys stuck in 01.


Oh dear... someone who doesnt know what they are talking about! :)

Seriously, the game has a complex AI engine. Thankfully it does not require a physics engine like Havok, however the other items it uses are way more complex. Also, as you probably dont play the game based on your comments... there are certain effects that you can enable in game that require PS3. Please could you suggest another MMO that has anywhere near the graphics level of EQ2? I certainly dont know of any... and I am an avid MMO fan. If you wish to compare it to HL2 and other such games played online, then there really is no comparison, as teh databases required for EQ2 are far far more advanced and complex.

But anyway, enough de-railing of this thread!
Just want to report, that running a Leadtek 6800U OCed to 454/1265, I have no stuttering issues at all with driver release 66.93. I have tried running any of the new drivers, and all of them cause the stuttering issue in EQ2. I have not changed anything else apart from the clock frequencies and my card is watercooled. Hope this helps!

Graphicmaniac
06-22-05, 06:37 PM
any news from 77.xx drivers?

gram_vaz
06-23-05, 06:10 AM
i recently played eq2 trial on 77.50 driver with no stuttering.

Ghosthunter
06-23-05, 07:05 AM
I just tried the latest official drivers 77.72 and a huge improvement I was using 71.89 before.


I never got a lot of stuttering before except when hitting my hard drive in queynos, but game overall seems smoother.

Elderblaze
06-25-05, 12:12 AM
Madoron, the AI is nothing spectacular as previously noted. It's no better or worse then EQ1, or WoW. Yet those games run great. And while EQ2 definatly looks spectacular from a Technical standpoint, it's ART and Consistancy is SERIOUSLY lacking. But hey that's subjective. EQ2's got plenty of flashy special effects (that are poorly executed) but the textures and models are absolute crap from an Art direction point of view. I've played EQ1, DAOC, UO, WoW, and EQ2. EQ2 has by far the worst art i've ever seen in an MMO. WoW is the best looking MMO i've ever played. It's low poly but it fits the theme, and is executed superbly. The art is spectacular and the use of color is just wonderful. From a technical standpoint it's not that impressive, but at the same time they did ALOT with a little. And for this they have 2 million subscbiers vrs 300k. WoW really is a better game.

Art is very subjective though, so it's only an opinion, not a fact. Though the subsciber numbers speak for themselves. And i still stand by my comment that EQ2 does not look Good enough to warrent it's piss poor performance. It looks good, but not enough to drop a Dual core sli 7800 machine to it's knees, and though I havent seen performance numbers for such a machine, I have no doubt that EQ2 will own it. And not because it needs that much power.

Regards,
Mike

killahsin
06-25-05, 12:38 AM
Eq2 has been patching their textures in their main content patches since the last couple months. The 2 last highlevel outdoor zones look sick. I guess the debate is over subjective things like shoyuld dreary areas really look dreary, when there are a vast majority of dreary areas in a game based on the end of the world. It's just design. I mean if the area is supposed to be bland and depressing then it ends up getting users feeling bland and depressed. Thats fundementally one of eq2's problems. Things like this art wise they have been redoing and patching for a few months. As content focused as eq2 is, there needs to be more variety in the landscapes in each zone. This way your not always feeling the same way. MMO art tends to relay an expression upon its users. A fun and playful looking enviornment creates a fun and playful atmosphere which users relate to. Sometimes developers tend to forget that art is an expression and just like any other forms of expression it tranfers over to the people either participating or witnessing it. A sad feeling enviornment will make you eventually feel sad, especially if your into rpg's. EQ2 was designed more as an artform then as a mmo of social engineering. They wanted their areas to to look like what their story lore suggested they were. Thus you get alot of the users commenting on the bland dreary stale color schemese etc etc. I think that the art team forgot what art actually does to people whom witness it. I do believe that as more content patches come out and more expansions and as the world grows that alot of this will be situated and fixed. EQ2's particle system and texture /database systems are really what owns computers. Performance in the game has definatly increased for nv users in the gf6/7 line though thats for sure.