Here come the Reds again.

[Yonkers]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&u=/nm/20041203/ts_nm/russia_putin_dc_1&printer=1

Every thing Putin said in this speech is old Soviet party line propaganda. This guys wants and longs for the old USSR. What else would you expect from former KGB? This guy is a danger and should not be trusted especially since he is PUBLICALLY hand piking a puppet in the Ukraine. Soviet style communism is not dead my friends.

[Raptorman]

I never trusted him to begin with. Anyone associated with the KGB cannot be trusted.

[Daneel Olivaw]

But he's a friend of Bush! How 'bout them apples?
The US can pick puppets but not Russia?
Hasn't Russia greatly improved since Putin got office?
Aren't both countries fighting their little wars with their little toys for some oil and some land and a bit o' freedom and cute little justice? Fighting their little evils and evil-doers and little tiny terrorists?

Sorry I'm in a tiny mood. (snowman)

[2fast4u]

aye, 2fast4u appears out of nowhere.

just wanted to give my take on this. i have a read a few of your posts yonkers and i think i have a general idea of your thinking so its not suprising you are painting the ol picture of the evil commies :D

on putin being a soviet style communist ... if that is so, how do you explain that russia is practicing one of the most radical models of liberalistic economies in the world currently? there is no room here for the communist system at all. the communist party is practically without a chance in russia at present time and there doesnt seem much potential for that to change too soon. thats just my take on this "red scare" crap...

love the xmas smilies btw guys ;)

[Yonkers]

Why is this about me and not the topic?

The communist party is right in the middle of power with Putin in control also he is taking more andmore power.

Most of the left never believe in the red scare so it doesn't surprise me you don't either. Even with the KGB files that were release your side still refuses to believe that there was a concerted effort by the USSR to dominate the world. That is ok because most young guys like you who don't remember the cold war are clueless about how much fear and danger there was back then. I forgive you for your ignorance.

[Raptorman]

I don't care if he's a friend of Bush or not. I just cannot bring myself to trust anyone who is ex-KGB.
Do I think that Putin still has some Communist ideals? Yes. Communism was drilled into many of their heads so deep that you cannot fully eliminate it, atleast in this generation. Perhaps in the next generation the Communist ideals can fully be eliminated? We'll have to see.

[Yonkers]

Raptorman, give it up. You are talking to someone who believes the communist world conspiracy never existed. He is a communist appoligizer. I wouldn't waste keystrokes on this.

[2fast4u]

Raptorman, give it up. You are talking to someone who believes the communist world conspiracy never existed. He is a communist appoligizer. I wouldn't waste keystrokes on this.

why is this about me and not the topic? oh wait ... ;)

The communist party is right in the middle of power with Putin in control also he is taking more andmore power.

ok .. here is a small view of the russian political situation: putins majority party is in power with a vast majority with an opposition formed by a social democratic, a communist (or "the" communist) party and a few nationalistic ones. putin doesnt need to communists in fact they would be in his way by trying to achieve his goals. in fact, russia is a purely liberalistic economy. nothing about communism here, please move along.

[Yonkers]

why is this about me and not the topic? oh wait ...

I did that specifically because you did it in your first posts.

[Daneel Olivaw]

If you're afraid of commies, I really don't think Russia should be your main focus...

A couple of Asian countries come to mind.

Oh yes, why does the US care what another country's economic stance is? I'd actually be more worried about the US's economy right now...

I'm curious, what's the current Russian debt and deficit?

[Yonkers]

Oh yes, why does the US care what another country's economic stance is? I'd actually be more worried about the US's economy right now...

Our economy is fine and poor economics never stopped communists.

[bigC]

putin is a dictator in training, but not necessarily a communist. he does, however, want to restore the greater Russian Empire, ie, the recent "elections" in Ukraine, the war in Chechnya, and the efforts to bring the former soviet satellite states back under the control of Moscow.

communism failed in the USSR because it's economy collapsed and was unsustainable, so a more open economy, modelled on China's system, would allow Russia's business and economy to grow, yet also preserve Putin's power.

[Daneel Olivaw]

putin is a dictator in training, but not necessarily a communist. he does, however, want to restore the greater Russian Empire, ie, the recent "elections" in Ukraine, the war in Chechnya, and the efforts to bring the former soviet satellite states back under the control of Moscow.

communism failed in the USSR because it's economy collapsed and was unsustainable, so a more open economy, modelled on China's system, would allow Russia's business and economy to grow, yet also preserve Putin's power.
A country's leader always wants to increase his country's power. Unless you're in Canada or in Northern Europe. (snowlol)

Our economy is fine and poor economics never stopped communists. I'm obviously nitpicking, but the american economy is not fine. And as a previous poster posted, bad economics did stop communism. These two last statements are unrelated btw.

[Bill The Cat]

putin is a dictator in training, but not necessarily a communist. he does, however, want to restore the greater Russian Empire, ie, the recent "elections" in Ukraine, the war in Chechnya, and the efforts to bring the former soviet satellite states back under the control of Moscow.

communism failed in the USSR because it's economy collapsed and was unsustainable, so a more open economy, modelled on China's system, would allow Russia's business and economy to grow, yet also preserve Putin's power.

Couldn't have said it better.

Putin is consolidating power, which has little to do with communism.

[Sazar]

putin is a dictator in training, but not necessarily a communist. he does, however, want to restore the greater Russian Empire, ie, the recent "elections" in Ukraine, the war in Chechnya, and the efforts to bring the former soviet satellite states back under the control of Moscow.

communism failed in the USSR because it's economy collapsed and was unsustainable, so a more open economy, modelled on China's system, would allow Russia's business and economy to grow, yet also preserve Putin's power.

true...

and coupled with the decline of the power of the dollar over the years (witness the current situation) the russian economy is less susceptible to US economic pressure than before even though there is still massive US clout in the global economy...

[oldsk00l]

Also look at how he handled the actions of terror. ie gassing the entire theatre, hence killing all the civilians AND terrorists.

I saw a caption under a picture of Putin, with a cold death-gaze, said "Russian to the core"

That was about spot on.

[Banko]

Also look at how he handled the actions of terror. ie gassing the entire theatre, hence killing all the civilians AND terrorists.

I saw a caption under a picture of Putin, with a cold death-gaze, said "Russian to the core"

That was about spot on.
Wow, where do youget your facts? Killing all the civilians, rofl? The gas, wasn't any kind of warfar, it was later turned out to be regular sleeping gas agent that is used in surgery, with a huge dose. The only civilians that died were old, or way to young, to take in the gas. There was no better option for the theatre, unless of course you know a way. Since the terrorists had fingers on the buttons, if no instantaneous sleeping gas was used, right when the Russian forces stormed in everyone would be dead, which wasn't the case here. I think you are just plain stupid, and should quite frankly stfu.

[Rakeesh]

Wait...since when is Putin good friends with Bush? This is new to me. All I have noticed is that Putin wanted Bush to win the '04 election.

Nevermind the fact that Putin ardently opposed Bush on the Iraq issue, and that Bush also spoke out against the Ukrain fiasco, even though Putin heavily favored the result.

[Daneel Olivaw]

I swear I got this at random... on the first try [random generator].

Liberals are now obsolete. Thanks to this new technology http://www.buttafly.com/bush/index.php, computers can do their job much faster and with much higher accuracy!
THE BUSH CONSPIRACY
THEORY GENERATORGeorge W. Bush lowered taxes so that Rush Limbaugh, white men, Ann Coulter, and the Christian Coalition could invade Al Franken.That is unbelievable, think about the butthole size needed for such a invasion...

[Yonkers]

Wow, where do youget your facts? Killing all the civilians, rofl? The gas, wasn't any kind of warfar, it was later turned out to be regular sleeping gas agent that is used in surgery, with a huge dose. The only civilians that died were old, or way to young, to take in the gas. There was no better option for the theatre, unless of course you know a way. Since the terrorists had fingers on the buttons, if no instantaneous sleeping gas was used, right when the Russian forces stormed in everyone would be dead, which wasn't the case here. I think you are just plain stupid, and should quite frankly stfu.

Putin was in charge of that and with careless regard for life he ordered the hostage crisis ended. It was condmend around the world. Maybe you don't get the news where you live.

[sytaylor]

If you look at this globally and not just "how I see it standing in the USA", the picture becomes very different indeed.

Putin does not want to loose any more friends to a creeping socialist europe, who's "red" tape is swallowing an awful lot of the former USSR. At the same time however, europe's economy is just getting back up off its ass (thanks indeed to asia and the USA). With that however, it has been much less agressive, but more stable in its growth, and not selling the family air looms to do so (i.e. the currency).

What does this mean to russia? Well obviously they are never going to return to communism, the whole world has pretty much decided that sucks. From Putin's actions, he seems to want to secure power for himself, his agenda's and his nation. This is very similar to how Bush has acted in the past 3 years, except Putin is using more tact internationally to do so (e.g. suggesting that oil should be traded in euro's etc). Yet domestically... Putin is very much ex-KGB in a modern world, and I honestly think he wouldn't want a return to communism, but struggles to escape the mindset. If he garners more control over the nation, the nation will be more as he wants it to be... (events with Yukos in russia are indeed a sham, but to a far far lesser extent what Bush is doing with the new judges isn't all that different (controling the legal agenda by apointing like minded people to power in an iconically independent insitution)). Putin is influencing the countries future agressivley so it can be a major player once again... his methods are just a bit daft. Bush is doing what he thinks is right to keep the USA the power it is, his methods are just a bit short term.

The european union sits in the background and allows the two to drift apart while smiling at each other because it benefits massivley from another voice to say "no" to the USA. China are even less contreversial atm, they too have plenty to gain from the USA and russia not liking each other but tolerating actions because of the current climate and leadership agenda's.

A strong EU is good for some causes, but horrible for ever actually wanting to get something done. It is so very bloated at this point in its history that it hasn't done much but waste money and argue for the last 2 years. I'd rather see a dominant USA but a more internationally friendly USA than a dominant Europe of any sort.

[vampireuk]

Wow, where do youget your facts? Killing all the civilians, rofl? The gas, wasn't any kind of warfar, it was later turned out to be regular sleeping gas agent that is used in surgery, with a huge dose. The only civilians that died were old, or way to young, to take in the gas. There was no better option for the theatre, unless of course you know a way. Since the terrorists had fingers on the buttons, if no instantaneous sleeping gas was used, right when the Russian forces stormed in everyone would be dead, which wasn't the case here. I think you are just plain stupid, and should quite frankly stfu.

You are quite off the mark yourself, none of the hostages died because of the gas. They died because of the poor care they got afterwards, if they had the correct kind of help after the gas was administered they would most likely all be alive today.

Edit: if people want a more internationaly friendly USA then the rest of the world has to realise the US is not going to sacrifice it's own security just to look good in everybodys eyes.

[sytaylor]

Edit: if people want a more internationaly friendly USA then the rest of the world has to realise the US is not going to sacrifice it's own security just to look good in everybodys eyes.

I think it does, but there are those within the administration that have illusions of grandure. Ousting Powell will only make the dillusion worse. The USA cannot solve every single problem it has without some help, nor should it. (rudolf)

[vampireuk]

It shouldn't have to but with a country like France having a veto in the UN the US has little chance of getting the support it requires.

[sytaylor]

Hence the tabled UN reforms, which I'm really hoping will see the radical changes we need in the UN. What we have to remember though is that if one side looses veto, so should the other, and international consensus could win out on things that could cause chaos (e.g. wealth distribution policies etc).