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Chalnoth
11-18-02, 03:34 PM
I just have to say, that from looking at the screenshots, this one in particular blew me away:

http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=demo_dawn

What kind of framerate is this sucker running at?

And firingsquad has some shots of the different facial expressions:


http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/gffx/images/10.jpg
Image retrieved from this page:

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/gffx/page4.asp

If this is really running at 30+ fps, talk about amazing graphics! Still, it would be impressive even if it was only running at 10 fps.

nick800
11-18-02, 03:41 PM
yeah I don't understand what some of the images were supposed to be proving though, I mean these images can be made already, is this saying that the image of dawn could be done in real time?

CWB
11-18-02, 03:44 PM
The facial expressions are amazing. But the best looking parts are, well, Id like to rip those leaves off and...woops, sorry, forgot I was in public...:p

ReDeeMeR
11-18-02, 05:44 PM
Ok I admit it looks awesome, but it's practicaly useless, All that new tech only can support one chick? Um yeah ok any games that could be any fun with one single chick or maybe two bit more ugly runing around?

Chalnoth
11-18-02, 08:25 PM
If this card can just do one at that detail level, particularly if it can do it at a decent framerate, then it is highly impressive.

And it's not much of a leap to have complete environemnts at that kind of detail level. Sure, it won't be done on an NV30, but the cool thing is that if the NV30 can do part of a scene at extremely high detail like that, then a much faster version of it a little bit down the road can do the whole scene.

In other words, regardless of whether or not they could only display the one model, it is a sign of things to come in the gaming world. The only thing is, I see the biggest problem with this is not so much graphics card power, but system bandwidth on the other side: CPU/memory. I'm sure just rendering her would stress current CPU/memory systems to the max, let alone a full scene. I'm willing to bet that graphics cards will be able to render an entire scene at that detail level before CPUs/memory subsystems are up to it.

ReDeeMeR
11-18-02, 09:07 PM
I could give a **** about "things to come" or how cool the damn demos are or all that theoretical bull, all I care is how it runs in practical and for what price, the fact is that Tyan Radeon9700 will run 400mhz and I have no doubt it'll give Nv30 run for it's money especialy with the price it'll be when nv30 comes in out in 3 months :D

Chalnoth
11-18-02, 09:11 PM
Well, I'm sorry, but I'm a hobbyist-programmer. That means I do care, quite a lot, about the potential power of these things. If you just play games, then fine. Focus on the benchmarks and image quality comparisons that will be released in a month or so. Just because demos like this don't matter to you doesn't mean they're meaningless.

StealthHawk
11-18-02, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
Ok I admit it looks awesome, but it's practicaly useless, All that new tech only can support one chick? Um yeah ok any games that could be any fun with one single chick or maybe two bit more ugly runing around?

you have to start somewhere :rolleyes:

be thankful it even can run one.

nin_fragile14
11-18-02, 10:42 PM
That does look amazing. And as for practical use, who cares, as StealthHawk said, it has to start somewhere. This shows those kind of graphics CAN be done in realtime if a programmer were to pursue it.

ricercar
11-18-02, 11:37 PM
During Jen Hsun Huang's presentation at COMDEX, one of the two big guys from Epic Games said that Unreal 2 and GeForce FX could show "about twenty" figures like the pixie ("Dawn" is her name) on screen, rendered in realtime with shadowing and dynamic light sources.

I'll note that Epic's demo character didn't have the range of facial expression that Dawn had, but none-the-less a quantity of twenty in realtime is impressive.

From earlier this thread, yes, the faerie chick is rendered in realtime. She was waltzing about a treebranch in real-time, waving her arms and changing her facial expression. It appeared that the NVIDIA folks had gotten a dancer to wear one of those body suits with sensors and mapped genuine human movements, because the faerie's gait and posture were authentic and geniune.

Other realtime demos included a short toy-story thing in which a toy UFO lands and is fought off with toy biplane and RC tank, and another was a pickup truck that aged over time losing its shine, bubbling, and eventually overgrown with rust, demonstrating how textures and lighting could be altered dynamically in real-time. All-in-all, I give 4.5 stars out of 5.

--

FWIW, NVIDIA's launch partners in software included Epic Games showing Unreal2, Electronic Arts showing (i forget), Sony Entertainment showing Everquest 2 character customization, and whatever company is bringing out Command and Conquer: Generals in February 2003.

IIRC hardware NV30 Launch Partners included LeadTek, ASUStek, MSI, eVGA, but none of the hardware partners announced specific products, or dates, or pricing.

DaveW
11-19-02, 12:29 AM
Its cool.... maybe a few years from now nVIDIA can render dozens of fairies like her on screen at a time, plus the whole forest in lovely detail... and allow you to hunt them with a flak cannon... yeah baby :)

StealthHawk
11-19-02, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by ricercar
FWIW, NVIDIA's launch partners in software included Epic Games showing Unreal2, Electronic Arts showing (i forget), Sony Entertainment showing Everquest 2 character customization, and whatever company is bringing out Command and Conquer: Generals in February 2003.
EA owns Westwood Studios, so it was them showing off C&C: Generals :)

ReDeeMeR
11-19-02, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by nin_fragile14
That does look amazing. And as for practical use, who cares, as StealthHawk said, it has to start somewhere. This shows those kind of graphics CAN be done in realtime if a programmer were to pursue it.

rofl, I certainly care and millions of others who arent gonna buy a sack of **** wich takes up 2 pci slots just to see demo of a chick smiling at ya. I wanna see raw preformance improvement in DOOMIII and 10 more frames then radeon9700 just doesnt cut it for me, I was expecting *way* more.

AngelGraves13
11-19-02, 01:39 PM
when I was in high school I was a trouble maker...and would sometimes get kicked out of class. I wonder why the chicks dig that?? Anyways...my dad had a long talk with me about that and then we started talking computers and he told me "son...remember this as long as you live. You get what you pay for. You buy something cheap and you're gonna be stuck with **** for a few months and then spend more money to get something better as soon as you can. If you buy something good usually a few hundred dollars more you won't have to upgrade it for a long while..." So basically if you buy cheaper crap like ATI....you get stuck with crap and when we're all playing Doom III at 20 to 30 more frames per second then you are, who's gonna be sad that they didn't spend a hundred mroe dollars. A hundred dollars is nothing....I can spend it in 20 mins at Fry's on a few good music CDs, so wake up and smell the coffee. Oh yeah...the NV30 will be about $360, so you're better off with that not to mention it has far more features. I'm sure the Ti version of it or something along those lines will be a a hundred dollars more.

Joe DeFuria
11-19-02, 03:50 PM
when I was in high school I was a trouble maker...and would sometimes get kicked out of class...

...I presume you were kicked out of that "logic" class more than once...

FastM
11-19-02, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
rofl, I certainly care and millions of others who arent gonna buy a sack of **** wich takes up 2 pci slots just to see demo of a chick smiling at ya. I wanna see raw preformance improvement in DOOMIII and 10 more frames then radeon9700 just doesnt cut it for me, I was expecting *way* more.

Look, I dont know the first thing about programming graphics, but i do know most if not 99% of all games out there really rely on the CPU/Memory subsystem so there is only soo much a VideoCard can do. I also know that games like Doom3 and UT2 dont even begin to touch the capabilities of videocards like the 9700 or NV30. So hopefully where the NV30 can accel is Image quality improvments by other means such as AA and AF.... I could be totaly wrong but thats just my 2 cents.

Also, this is a reference NV30 with pre-production drivers so you can expect some improvement, we also dont know if infact those numbers were taken with a NV30 running at the full 500Mhz core clock. As for the 2 pci slots... anyone using a good AGP card for games shouldn't have that 1st pci slot populated anyway.

Bigus Dickus
11-19-02, 05:03 PM
Yawn.

If you think you'll be able to buy a $360 NV30 running at 500/500, then I hope you never wake up. Must be a nice dream.

Besides... if it was priced like that wouldn't it also be "cheap crap?" Lol, you're hilarious.

No Joe, he probably just flunked out of that class. ;)

borgzilla
11-19-02, 05:51 PM
Oh GeeDoo is here
after almost 2 years lol

Well better ever then DNF. :)

Think I'm gonna skip till nv35 or something. I mean I'm gonna buy NV30 when NV35 comes out.

StealthHawk
11-19-02, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
rofl, I certainly care and millions of others who arent gonna buy a sack of **** wich takes up 2 pci slots just to see demo of a chick smiling at ya. I wanna see raw preformance improvement in DOOMIII and 10 more frames then radeon9700 just doesnt cut it for me, I was expecting *way* more.

it's the percentage increase that matters, not the number of frames jeez :rolleyes:

if NV30 provided 1000 frames per second more than R9700, but R9700 already provided 10000 fps, would it really matter? the answer is of course no.

AngelGraves13
11-19-02, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
...I presume you were kicked out of that "logic" class more than once...

Yeah and guys like you were the ones who I beat up when I was out of class pal...it was a whole lotta fun too. You buy crap like ATI and well....you're stuck with crap. I'll never buy another ATI card, not now and not ever. I'll stick with Nvidia.

ReDeeMeR
11-19-02, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
it's the percentage increase that matters, not the number of frames jeez :rolleyes:

if NV30 provided 1000 frames per second more than R9700, but R9700 already provided 10000 fps, would it really matter? the answer is of course no.

Yeah well that would be cool with them 10000xxxx frames/sec, but I speak of reality here :rolleyes:

We'll see with legit benchies though, cant wait :D


PS: lol 99 to Life, I can see why you were kicked out of class :D

StealthHawk
11-19-02, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
Yeah well that would be cool with them 10000xxxx frames/sec, but I speak of reality here :rolleyes:

We'll see with legit benchies though, cant wait

the point being that you dodged the issue. it's not the delta in fps that makes a difference, it is how much faster in comparison NV30 is.

fine, let me illustrate a more palpable example, since you either chose to ignore my argument or you don't comprehend it.

10fps vs 30fps compared to 60fps vs 80fps. the difference speaks for itself.

although i do agree, let's wait for some real benchmarks that are made in more fair comparisons by reviewers.

GamblerFEXonlin
11-20-02, 09:16 AM
Whats so impressive about that Dawn demo? It seems any GF3-4 card can do it, just need a lot of texture passes. The polygon count isn't so high that the CPU can't animate her facial expressions.

However, if ricercars claim is right and the NV30 can render "about twenty" like her in realtime then its a big difference. I just wonder then why they didnt create a real forest but just added a sphere with a texture resembling it.

As far as next-gen graphics only Doom3 looks intersting, all other games look cartoony, dry and old-fashion typical Unreal1 graphics. The real question we should ask is does Dawn cast soft shadows and can there be 20 of her doing that? Doom3 is all about shadows and JC has cut down heavily on the polycont because too many silhouette edges = great impact on performance. Does DX9 and NV30 "solve" this issue? Its not scary having a zombie stretching out his completely square fingers at you, more comic.

Joe DeFuria
11-20-02, 10:50 AM
Yeah and guys like you were the ones who I beat up when I was out of class pal...

But my Dad can beat up your Dad.... :rolleyes:

Megatron
11-20-02, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
But my Dad can beat up your Dad.... :rolleyes:

LOL


Any one who has to resort to claims like... "Yeah and guys like you were the ones who I beat up when I was out of class pal..."

Probably took more beatings than they ever gave out. :p

Guys who are legitimately tuff dont have to say it.