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View Full Version : BFG 6800GT OC Overclocking issues resolved: Attn Noko.


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mongoose
12-08-04, 09:42 PM
Review of the issues: (note I have the overclocked version of the BFG)

Overclocking to 400/1100 with the stock BIOS caused throttling even though artifacting wasn't present and my temps were relatively low (53C under load, ambient 40C) as I watercool my card.

Using the stock BIOS, I performed some 3dmark nature loops at stock BFG 6800GT OC clocks while monitoring with Rivatuner and noticed some fluctuation on the GPU temps from 45C to 53C causing me to believe the card was going into low power mode (which initiates throttling) even at stock clocks (which is 370/1100 for 2d/3d.)

Using OmniExtreme 1.1, I set the throttle voltage to 1.4. My max overclock according to the detect optimal frequencies didn't change, but now I can loop 3Dmark nature test, play Doom3 or UT2004 for hours without crashes and artifacts @ Ultra speeds. I have a hunch BFG implemented the throttling algorithm for a standard 6800GT on their OC revision. Key word is hunch. I have no proof and nothing empirical to substantiate my claim with.

I've read a number of posts from BFG 6800GT OC card owners complaining about throttling and I may have found a solution.

Note to those fearing 1.4V: The BFG 6800GT OC runs 1.4V stock, so evidently it is designed for it.

Comments or critiques are welcome.

Noko:

Your BIOS (bfggt14.rom) was supposed to change throttle voltage to 1.42 correct? Well as I reported earlier I would get crashes even at stock clocks. I checked it in OMNIExtreme 1.1 (which reports throttle voltage) and Rivatuner still showed throttle voltage at 1.3 (performance was 1.4V which is stock for the OC revision.) Rivatuner also reported the non-dimensional voltage at 5V whereas the stock BIOS reads 6V. I'd hate to throw a turd in your punchbowl as I know you put quite some time into your BIOS, but you may want to second check it.

bkswaney
12-08-04, 10:48 PM
My BFG GTOC's stock bios voltage is 1.3 in 3D mode.
I've never seen a stock GTOC that had factory set 1.4. :confused: :werd:

Lfctony
12-09-04, 12:58 AM
Maybe some BFG GTs were flashed with a 1.4v bios to ensure stability, if they couldn't handle the OC speed and be 100% stable. Can't see why else they would ship those cards with 1.4v.

mongoose
12-09-04, 12:59 AM
My original BIOS as per Rivatuner

$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : GeForce 6800 GT BIOS
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.15.05
$1100000001 BMP version : 5.28
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 370MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.30V, VID 00000010b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none

And per Omni Extreme 1.1

http://home.mchsi.com/~mongoose470/original.jpg

Ver 1.5 of OmniExtreme's reported 3D voltage seems to be the throttle voltage (or Voltage Level 1 in rivatuner.) I've confirmed it by changing throttle voltage on my original bios to 1.4V in ver 1.1 and opening the modified BIOS with ver 1.5

Annihlist
12-09-04, 02:40 AM
Ya putting the throtolling voltage the same works. I had some probs with my albatron 6800 ultra and 425/1100 in only one game, painkiller expansion. The stupid thing would throttol on me. I changed 2d and 3d speeds the same though the bios and the same with the voltage and now everything is fine. It would only throttol with 4x AA and 8x AS filtering enabled, kind of strange. Temps were in the high 70s however it is about 27C room temp so they seemed fine. Might be because albatron uses 2.0ns memory in their ultras :(.

mongoose
12-09-04, 03:34 AM
My card always operates at Voltage Level One (throttle speed in Omni 1.1, 3D speed in ver 1.5) and never enters Level 0 or 2.

With the stock BIOS it indeed reads 1.3V and throttling seems independent of low power 3D mode. Fact is, my GPU doesn't like Ultra speeds at 1.3V.

It seems I simply performed a standard 1.4V voltmod. I've read the horror stories but I hope they were cooling related. Watercooling makes for a strong condom.

I don't know why my temps are erratic with the stock BIOS under load.

I'm willing to bet Noko's BIOS changed the performance level 0 zero voltage.

devilhood
12-09-04, 09:48 AM
The BFG 6800 GT uses 1.3v.
As long as your BFG 6800 GT is the old green PCB model instead of the blue, you will have no problems manually increasing the voltage to 1.4v.
The thing with the blue PCB model is that it will degrade faster than you can shake a fist at it... I know LOTS of people with this model and have made permanent damage to their BFG GT by setting the voltage at 1.4v, both have had the same issues as me: poor OC with a maximum stable OC of around 385/1100, although 400/1100 will work but cause serious issues in 3DMark 2001 and many other games, un-necessary throttling, poor performance, poor components.
You will know if you have a stable OC if you experience ZERO problems running every 3DMark test from 2001 to 2005.
Seems that XFX have also switched to a blue PCB model as well, and to my surprise, this also performs in the same way with very little overhead for OC'ing.
Not sure why people still use OmniExtreme? the original maker of that program is working on something better with a different name. There have been many improvements since then.
Click here to download it (http://www.mvktech.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=26&func=fileinfo&parent=folder&filecatid=570)
I'm running to Gainward with their 'Goes Like Hell' GT for christmas, either that or their Ultra/2600 "Golden Sample" (xmasmile)

noko
12-09-04, 10:19 AM
Interesting, well I actually measured the voltage on my card in 2d and 3d and it was 1.3v with the stock bios. With the slight bios mod I made the voltage increase to 1.4v in both 2d and 3d applications as measured physically on my card. I do have the green board and an earier BFG 6800GT so I am not sure about any changes to the board or bios revisions later. I even modified the bios and confirmed on my board 1.5v to the core but that bios didn't perform as good as the 1.4v bios. Once again like all bios mods you take a risk, if you are not willing to take that risk (possible slower performance, permanent damage, a glowing GPU :wimp: and what not) then I recommend not wasting your time with it. In addition using an older bios, like mine now may not work on a newer revision board which now looks to be very apparent as in your case. I also hard modded or should I say erasible pencil modded upping core voltage to 1.57v :smoking: which was even worst then 1.5v in the end. Happy to say my card is still running strong and I use it every day. Normally I clock mine at 400/1100 but it can go faster. Now if my card stops functioning, well I would be very convinced that I was the one that caused the damage considering what I've have done to it and would shop for another card. Cheers (cheers)

NemesisChild
12-09-04, 07:44 PM
My original BIOS as per Rivatuner

$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : GeForce 6800 GT BIOS
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.15.05
$1100000001 BMP version : 5.28
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 370MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.30V, VID 00000010b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none

And per Omni Extreme 1.1

http://home.mchsi.com/~mongoose470/original.jpg

Ver 1.5 of OmniExtreme's reported 3D voltage seems to be the throttle voltage (or Voltage Level 1 in rivatuner.) I've confirmed it by changing throttle voltage on my original bios to 1.4V in ver 1.1 and opening the modified BIOS with ver 1.5

I just purchased my BFG 6800GT OC, it's the newer model with twin fans and the cooper heat sink (with a copper heat pipe). I ran the Riva Tuner Bios report, I have the exact same version as you do. I'm fortunate, I've never experienced any throttling problems, thus no need for a volt mod. I'm guessing that it probably would be a good idea to set the throttle and 3d volts the same, just to avoid any potential problems. Should 2D be changed to 1.4V as well? Thanks for your help, I'm kinda new to all of this.

mongoose
12-09-04, 10:01 PM
don't fix it.

Or in your case: If the card's performance is satisfactory for you and doesn't throttle, leave it alone.

Whether the GPU can take 1.4V is a crap shoot regardless of what color the PCB is.

Noko:

I hope I didn't come across as blaming. I chose to be a guinea pig and wanted to give you honest feedback on your BIOS. As it turns out, my card is still in fine shape, no damage done. (snow=D) I even reaped some spillover benefits, such as fixing the loose molex and removing quite a few hot spots in my rig.

However I was curious regarding the differences of my 1.4V mod and yours. Curiosity is my nature.

Salamandar
12-09-04, 10:05 PM
Note to those fearing 1.4V: The BFG 6800GT OC runs 1.4V stock, so evidently it is designed for it.

I thought BFG 6800gt hates 1.4 V more than any other GT card out there ?!?!
:screwy:

mongoose
12-09-04, 10:07 PM
the 6800GT APPEARS to have a 1.4V pathway.

But I monitored the core voltage with the stock BIOS and it stayed at 1.3V in 2D and 3D.

I have no idea what Voltage Level 2 is for.

Regarding GT cores doing 1.4, roll the bones.

noko
12-10-04, 01:19 AM
You are not the first one that found 1.4v gives problems, not sure why some don't have this problem while others do as in a better OC. Temperture is what gives you thermal throttling which for the GT was suppose to be 120c. When you first boot up your computer the voltage is around 1.1v corresponding to level 0, when the drivers loads then level 1 comes into effect and is 1.3v for my BFG 6800GT when stock. Level 2 was already set at 1.4v which some call 3d voltage but never causes the GPU to ever see 1.4v (I think this is an unused flag on the 6800 GT). Once it booted up into windows the core saw 1.3v, level 1. My bios changed one parameter and that was level 1 or what some call the 2d/3d voltage (there is no thermal throttling voltage as far as I know), everything else stayed the same to hopefully minimize any conflicts, which was my goal in the end. It was also noted that Omni Extreme didn't read my bios right to begin with but I didn't worry to much about it since it was working great for me.

Faster
12-10-04, 01:30 AM
Mongoose you should post your 1.4v Stable bios for all the users who wanna try it :)

mongoose
12-10-04, 04:09 AM
It is wiser to make a backup of your own and mod it from there.

To make a backup copy, boot to clean DOS and use NVFlash 4.41 with the -b switch followed by filename.

I used OmniExtreme 1.1 (revision is important.) and changed "thrtl" from 1.3 to 1.4V

Using Omni 1.5, you would change 3D voltage from 1.3V to 1.4

mongoose
12-10-04, 04:18 AM
I'd be interested in seeing what Rivatuner's subsystem diagnostic reports about your BIOS.

In my BIOS, I changed the Level 1 voltage to 1.4 and I'm stable. I've confirmed our BIOSes are based upon the same revision, 5.40.02.15.05

Your BIOS did eliminate the throttling, however.

Out of dangerous curiosity, I changed the Level 2 voltage to 1.3V (3D in Omni 1.1) and my system immediately crashed in 3Dmark.

Crixx
12-10-04, 09:19 AM
Just as an FYI....In Talking with BFG's tech support through e-mail they have suggested to me to try increasing the AGP voltage to resolve my issues. So I would assume the BFG card can handle it. However he did warn not to increase it by any more then .1

Crixx

Chippy
12-11-04, 05:00 AM
Interesting thread this.

I have been "suffereing" from randon "10 second pauses" - where the whole PC just locks for 10 seconds and then springs into life again and continues running.

When I check whats going on, the GPU core speed after a lockup is reset back down to the stock 370MHz. So I guess this is "throttling", is it?

It only happens when I try to run core speeds higher than 410MHz. But the strange thing is, this *never* happened in my old nforce2 board, right up to 453MHz. Its all been very puzzling.

So I read this thread with interest and thought here might be a possible fix. (I don't think temps are my problem as the temp never goes over 60C gaming, which isn't bad.)

I had already modded my bios to 1.4v using Omni thingy 1.5. I did this some months ago. So I just went to check to see what the Throttle voltage was. There's nothing there, and the drop-down is greyed out:

http://www.asbd28.dsl.pipex.com/images/omni_settings.png

So I check in Riva Tuna, and I see this:

$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : GeForce 6800 GT BIOS
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.15.05
$1100000001 BMP version : 5.28
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 370MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none

What does this mean? Has my setting 3D to 1.4v automatically set the throttle voltage to 1.4v as well? I only ever changed one voltage setting: the 3D voltage. Why does Omni thingy not show the throttle voltage? Is that just a bug.

Thoughts?

Chip

Delbert
12-11-04, 05:45 AM
Please excuse the newbie question... but how do you know what voltage is being used under load conditions.. i.e Doom 3 etc... Is there a util that will display ?

I have same VGA Bios info as mongoose...

$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : GeForce 6800 GT BIOS
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.15.05
$1100000001 BMP version : 5.28
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 370MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.30V, VID 00000010b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none

Card runs great... but cannot increase AGP voltage as MB Bios will not allow ( old MB ).... :-(

Thnx in advance for any advice....

nIghtorius
12-11-04, 07:19 AM
Hmm..

65280Mhz/255Mhz/2.55v??? perf. level 1?? what the hell does that mean..
I think rivatuner doesn't understand it.


$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.22.C2
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 350MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100010001 Perf. level 1 : 65280MHz/255MHz/2.55V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.30V, VID 00000010b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none


it's from a AOpen Aeolus 6800GT. currently running it @ 1.3volts again.. @1.4volts it could easily reach ultra speeds. but with those horror stories about dying after 2 a 3 months.. I flashed it back to 1.3volts again.

it seems that I have a quite newer BIOS revision on my thing.

mongoose
12-11-04, 02:36 PM
So I check in Riva Tuna, and I see this:

$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff NVIDIA VGA BIOS information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$1100000000 Title : GeForce 6800 GT BIOS
$1100000002 Version : 5.40.02.15.05
$1100000001 BMP version : 5.28
$1100000100 BIT version : 1.00
$1100010000 Perf. level 0 : 370MHz/500MHz/1.30V
$1100020000 VID bitmask : 00000011b
$1100020100 Voltage level 0 : 1.10V, VID 00000000b
$1100020101 Voltage level 1 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100020102 Voltage level 2 : 1.40V, VID 00000001b
$1100000003 SW masked units : none

What does this mean? Has my setting 3D to 1.4v automatically set the throttle voltage to 1.4v as well? I only ever changed one voltage setting: the 3D voltage. Why does Omni thingy not show the throttle voltage? Is that just a bug.

Thoughts?

The 3D menu changes voltage level 1 voltage in Omni 1.5 In Omni version 1.1, thrtl will be reported and that changes voltage level 1.

Did your card throttle after the voltmod?

Interesting that it didn't throttle on your NF2. I have a NF3 as well.

mongoose
12-11-04, 02:43 PM
Please excuse the newbie question... but how do you know what voltage is being used under load conditions.. i.e Doom 3 etc... Is there a util that will display ? Card runs great... but cannot increase AGP voltage as MB Bios will not allow ( old MB ).... :-(

Thnx in advance for any advice....

Rivatuner 2.0 RC 15.2 will monitor core VID but not by default. Under the main menu, click the Customize tab and select hardware monitoring. Right click the Core VID non-dimensional graph >setup>more>interpretation mode>select 1.1V + 0.3V / 0.2v loop for all non ultra cards.

Chippy
12-11-04, 03:42 PM
Did your card throttle after the voltmod?

Interesting that it didn't throttle on your NF2. I have a NF3 as well.

Yup. Its been doing it ever since I installed it in my K8N Neo2 nforce3 board. Never did it in my nf2, even at 453MHz. Now it will throttle at 411.

The $64000 question is, why does it never throttle when running OpenGL, only DirectX? Now there's the puzzler! 450MHz is OK in OpenGL - e.g. Doom3 - and yet 411MHz crashes Direct3d. Wierd.

Chip

noko
12-11-04, 05:11 PM
This is something worth looking into. Now I need to figure out an easy way to monitor voltage and clock speed at the same time while 3d gaming to see if I can see any kind of throttling or voltage changes. Not sure when I will get the time to do this. Maybe I will modify the bios further to see if I can force the issue. I still don't understand the second voltage plug on the Ultras when so many 6800GT's can do Ultra speeds without issue. I don't have any of the issues brought up in this thread so it may become a mute point for me to investigate. Since I have an A/C cooled case my normal 2d, desktop temps at 1.4v 400/1100 is 38-42c and while gaming it usually never goes above 56c. Since it is winter here I can take 5-10c off of the above if I really cool down my case more which is now possible.

Slammin
12-11-04, 07:47 PM
Everything points at a design that uses voltage to throttle, and in every case, the throttle-down voltage seems to be 1.3v. My card throttled down even though the GPU was below 75c, Setting 3D to 1.4 with Omniextreme 1.5 cure that.

Reading this thread, I went and grabbed Omniextreme 1.1 and set both my 3D and throttle to 1.4v and am testing now. I'm more than likely going to set 3D and throttle to 1.3v though. Just curious right now.