NV will have PS/VS 4.0? R520 will be PS3.0 compliant?

[MUYA]

Although I would have normally posted in teh front page. I am at work and cannot post this on the front page. But here it is;

Demirug was fooling around with the cG compiler and found a few "two new compiler profiles, called fp50 and vp50". That could mean NV's next gen chip will be SM 4.0/WGF 2.0???

Untranslated link;http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=190342


ATiR520 = well as you know Demirug was hacking around catalyst drivers when he found SM3.0 code

Untranlsted link
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=190342

[harl]

Fp50? (snowman)
Does that mean data in floating point 50 bits!?

[Subtestube]

Nup.. it's a fragment/vertex profile compiler option. Like, to compile a fragment program under Cg you need to tell the Cg compiler what to compile for (so it knows if the program is compliant in various ways). To tell the compiler to compile for the NV40, you use Fp40, and Vp40.. but that doesn't necessarily buy you much. It can get you a LOT of performance in some cases - it boosted my performance by 10FPS in a program I'm writing from compiling for FP30 and VP30. Note that you can ALWAYS compile for lower than you have - one of the nice things about Cg is that it's designed with full backwards compatability in mind. You can even compile for higher, if emulation mode is running, but that's generally a very bad idea.

In any case, Fp50 and Vp50 don't necessarily mean that it's going to be full on SM 4.0 (though it might). All it means is that the next gen nVidia card will have some features that can be compiled for that aren't supported on the current generation. So it could be like, 3.0a or b, rather than all out 4.0. Or it could even just be some subtleties, like addition of little optimisations to compile for. In any case, at the moment it doesn't mean anything very much for sure - just that the next gen video card will have shaders compiled differently for them than the current ones. And that makes sense, really.

[Demirug]

Looks like there is too much lost with the translation.

I am not fooling around with the Cg Compiler. I am fooling around with the Cg part in the current leaked driver.

As Subtestube say the two profiles only say that there will some new function for NV5X. But in the case of this two profiles there is something new. Normal a fp?? profile is used to build a "!!FPx.x" shader and a vp?? profile give you a "!!VPx.x" shader. But fp50 and vp50 are both give yo a "!!SHA1.0" shader.

[Nv40]

Nup.. it's a fragment/vertex profile compiler option. Like, to compile a fragment program under Cg you need to tell the Cg compiler what to compile for (so it knows if the program is compliant in various ways). To tell the compiler to compile for the NV40, you use Fp40, and Vp40.. but that doesn't necessarily buy you much. It can get you a LOT of performance in some cases - it boosted my performance by 10FPS in a program I'm writing from compiling for FP30 and VP30. Note that you can ALWAYS compile for lower than you have - one of the nice things about Cg is that it's designed with full backwards compatability in mind. You can even compile for higher, if emulation mode is running, but that's generally a very bad idea.

In any case, Fp50 and Vp50 don't necessarily mean that it's going to be full on SM 4.0 (though it might). All it means is that the next gen nVidia card will have some features that can be compiled for that aren't supported on the current generation. So it could be like, 3.0a or b, rather than all out 4.0. Or it could even just be some subtleties, like addition of little optimisations to compile for. In any case, at the moment it doesn't mean anything very much for sure - just that the next gen video card will have shaders compiled differently for them than the current ones. And that makes sense, really.


Just remember the NV50 is NV very NEXT GENERATION. a custom chip of this one will be used for the PSX3.an already have more than 2 years of development.. according to NVidia is the next BIG thing. so i really doubt that the NVdia Next Generation chip , will be only Sm3.0a or b. already the NV40 is Sm3.0+ ,since it also support 64 bit FP blending/filtering and some unique shadows maps techniques in hardware..like it is partially used in 3dmark2005 and other games.the NV50 its not going to compete againts ATi R520.. its the Nv48. which is the one that might qualify as Sm3.1 with significant improvements in the performance and power comsuption area.

[Subtestube]

NV40 >> Yeah, I agree, you're probably right. However, the presence of FP50 and VP50 compile options doesn't indicate anything at all except that programs will be compiled differently on the NV50. That's all I was trying to say. It simply doesn't tell us anything.

[MustangSVT]

SM4.0 won't be around until next Windows comes out with next-generation DirectX which will probably be around mid 2006 or late 2006. Assuming that R520 comes out soon, most likely around september this year, rest be assured that if an NV counterpart comes out around same time (Q3/Q4 this year, 2005), it will not have SM4.0 support.

[ToxicTaZ]

SM4.0 won't be around until next Windows comes out with next-generation DirectX which will probably be around mid 2006 or late 2006. Assuming that R520 comes out soon, most likely around september this year, rest be assured that if an NV counterpart comes out around same time (Q3/Q4 this year, 2005), it will not have SM4.0 support.

True and not True! :eek:

Hardware for SM4.0 could be out by year end but MS DX-10a won't be ready this year! ;)

Its like the Nvidia Geforce 6 (Hardware SM3.0) was out over 4 months before there was MS DX-9c was out! The same with the ATI Radeon 9700/R300 (Hardware SM2.0) was all so out over 6 months before there was MS DX-9.0a out for download!

So the hardware can be out before this year end but MS DX-X support won't be there till the next gen windows (Summer 2006) :rolleyes:

[nAo]

If fp50 and vp50 were about unified shading shouldn't we observe a unique profile?
What's interesting here it's not existence of such aforementioned profiles but the fact they are both compiled to a unique shader representation.
This doesn't mean that representation (SHA1.0) maps 1:1 to the hardware, but It could mean nvidia switched to a new compiling technology and/or nvidia is switching to a unified shading ALUs hardware, as ATI did with Xenon's GPU.

[MustangSVT]

I'm pretty sure that DX9.0c came out around the time the 6800 released.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=0A9B6820-BFBB-4799-9908-D418CDEAC197&displaylang=en

Date Published: 8/4/2004

It's april 8th. Before you go "no it's august 4th", well it can't be, because:

http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.77/61.77_ForceWare_Release_60_Graphics_Drivers_Releas e_Notes_Windows_XP-2000.pdf

First page, "Version 61.77 (with Direct X 9.0c / Shader Model 3.0 support), ... July 26, 2004". I clearly remember having DX 9.0c before 61.77's coming out soo.

[einstein_314]

I'm pretty sure that DX9.0c came out around the time the 6800 released.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=0A9B6820-BFBB-4799-9908-D418CDEAC197&displaylang=en

Date Published: 8/4/2004

It's april 8th. Before you go "no it's august 4th", well it can't be, because:

http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.77/61.77_ForceWare_Release_60_Graphics_Drivers_Releas e_Notes_Windows_XP-2000.pdf

First page, "Version 61.77 (with Direct X 9.0c / Shader Model 3.0 support), ... July 26, 2004". I clearly remember having DX 9.0c before 61.77's coming out soo.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I remember it coming out a few days before the NV40 was announced. Which was April 13th? I think or maybe 14th.

[GlowStick]

Hm very possible, however hard for me to read though the machine translation!

Still hopeing that we get some new news very soon :d

[ToxicTaZ]

I'm pretty sure that DX9.0c came out around the time the 6800 released.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=0A9B6820-BFBB-4799-9908-D418CDEAC197&displaylang=en

Date Published: 8/4/2004

It's april 8th. Before you go "no it's august 4th", well it can't be, because:

http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.77/61.77_ForceWare_Release_60_Graphics_Drivers_Releas e_Notes_Windows_XP-2000.pdf

First page, "Version 61.77 (with Direct X 9.0c / Shader Model 3.0 support), ... July 26, 2004". I clearly remember having DX 9.0c before 61.77's coming out soo.

:confused:

Well if you did not know that the GeForce 6 (6800) was out back in April 14/04 http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_12687.html and as you said "no it's august 4th", is right for DX-9c, there were a few down load fixs and new driver http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_14600.html for some SM3.0 games like FarCry at the time but there was know true MS DX-9c for 4 months and DX-9c was pushed back from April to August and it came out all most 3 weeks before MS SP2 come out for down load.

More Info here http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20050105356115.html