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Q
12-24-04, 02:55 AM
Purevideo has come, and the VPU on the 6800 Ultra's and GT's is still crippled when it comes to MPEG 4. Yes, we all spent a LOT of money and expected for advertised features to work as ...well....advertised. I know that I bought this card with some "future proofing" intentions. WMVHD is a wave of the future when it comes to video, and we seem to be left out.

I'm pissed. We're all pissed. We've all whined and complained. And for good reason.

But where has it gotten us?.............Nowhere.

This thread isn't to complain, and I would really appreciate it if there were no "NV should burn/die/refund" or "they" should do this or that. This isn't about "they".

This thread is for what WE can do. I would like for possible solutions for this. What courses of action can we, as consumers, make in this situation? I've seen so many "class action lawsuit" responses...but who the hell is starting one!?!

We're in a fuzzy situation here. With the video card industry, NVIDIA can always say "just a few more months for a driver...(8 months)". They can push this issue off for as long as they want if we let them.

So what CAN we do? Please make thoughtful and informed responses on this topic. If you're not informed, read that 528 post behemoth about the VPU in this same forum.

And one last thing....please don't post any "just get over it" or "why are you so upset over a peace of hardware" responses. I paid $550 bucks for this card. If that isn't a very very large amount of money to you, of course this isn't really an issue! To most of us though, it hurts to spend so much money and not get quite everything you expected out of it. Please be considerate.

Thanks for reading this and making THOUGHTFUL responses!

(xmassign2

Vapor Trail
12-24-04, 06:17 AM
The first step would be the gathering of evidence.

Where exactly have you seen it advertized that the cards in question could do hardware WMV9/MPEG4 acceleration. From what I'm seeing that is the only thing not working on the cards.

I just looked at my BFG6800GT box and nowhere does it say that. all it says it that the card can play back high definition video smoothly.

npras42
12-24-04, 06:48 AM
All it says on my XFX 6800GT is that it does WMV9 Video Processing. I dont think that counts as hardware acceleration as it does do WMV9 stuff. Just not hardware acceleration.

racingx
12-24-04, 06:58 AM
I love the avatar Qlitchford. Its "Freaking" Carl from ATHF that guy is great.

saturnotaku
12-24-04, 08:00 AM
I just looked at my BFG6800GT box and nowhere does it say that. all it says it that the card can play back high definition video smoothly.

On my PNY box is saysw the following:

- On-chip video processor
Full MPEG support, with features such as advanced adaptive de-interlacing, video scaling and filtering, delivers smooth video and DVD playback.

- Integrated full hardware MPEG-2 decoder
Delivers full-frame rate, full-screen MPEG-2 video on your desktop

Nowhere does it say anything about WMV9 or any of the supposedly broken features.

shabby
12-24-04, 08:36 AM
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_16823.html

This pdf clearly shows under "Advanced video and display functionality" that it has WMV9 decode acceleration.
Also on the second page under "Unmatched video functionality" it says the same thing.

FallenAngel
12-24-04, 10:29 AM
On my Leadtek 6800nu AGP box it says:

Support video processing for MPEG 1/2/4 encode/decode and WMV9 decode accelleration.

The Industry's First On-Chip Video Processor delivers unmatched video performance and features.

r2d2d3d4d5
12-24-04, 10:47 AM
We could all write to the card's manufacturers to complain. After all, they are the ones that made the card. We could also write to the retailer we bought the cards from to complain. I think that would be a positive start.

If someone who is good at writing letters made a standard letter or two for us to use that would be helpful. Although I suppose with standard letters you risk them being ignored after a certain amount is received.

r2d2d3d4d5
12-24-04, 11:57 AM
On my PNY box is saysw the following:

- On-chip video processor
Full MPEG support, with features such as advanced adaptive de-interlacing, video scaling and filtering, delivers smooth video and DVD playback.

- Integrated full hardware MPEG-2 decoder
Delivers full-frame rate, full-screen MPEG-2 video on your desktop

Nowhere does it say anything about WMV9 or any of the supposedly broken features.
I think this (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce6_techspecs.html) page is pretty clear (especially with regards to which models have which features). I'm surprised nVidia haven't taken it down yet.

There used to be a page that specifically talked about MPEG-4 decoding acceleration and MPEG-2 encoding but I can't seem to find it.

Edit//
This (http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html) used to be the link but that takes you to PureVideo now. Google remembers (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:xv3t0JBLf7cJ:www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html+%22On-Chip+Video+Processor%22+site:nvidia.com&hl=en) however.

Note: Certain features of the on-chip video processor will be implemented in a future NVIDIA driver release (mikec)

Vapor Trail
12-24-04, 12:54 PM
So far I've seen nothing that says hardware decode acceleration. They just say decode acceleration.

marsomega
12-24-04, 02:12 PM
If people complain about the situation in mobs, they will do something. Even if we don't find it on their documents it won't matter since if the mob is big enough, you can all say you were all mislead. Think about it, thats how it is, if it were clear for 1 but to a 200+ mob it was confusing, then it would be concluded that it was confusing and something should be done if only 1 person out of 200+ understood it.

Now, for every 1 person it made perfect sense to, you need at least 9 disguntled mislead people I think to make a big difference. You need practically over 50% of 6800GT/Ultra to come forward which is highly unlikely. The majority of the forum here complaining doesn't stand a chance to be honest. Hell, if that wasn't the case you would have nVidia PR running to this forum to set things straight.


Look at this thread at Rage3d.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33762163

It was the biggest thread i've every seen that started from finding a great deal to a complete disaster for everyone who pre-ordered and waited months for an X800 XT PE with 2000+ post and over 80K views. And this is just one, there was also the CDW one and after those two were closed there were two more. No ATI rep ever, not once went in there nor did any CDW or Gateway reps after countless complaints, calls to gateway/cdw pointing out the forum and numerous complaints to the BBB as well as countless calls to ATI about the thread and telling them that CDW and Gateway were claiming the product was canceled. All we got was a special offer for our troubles which was an X800 PRO VIVO for 349.99.

In all honestly I can only take a blind guess at what to do. But here is my suggestion.

Call the manufacture of your 6800 GT/Ultra based video card and log a complaint and get a reference number. Try to speak to the supervisor as well. Get a reference number for your complaint/conversation.

Do the same with nVidia, however I think with them it would be best just to email. Again, ask for some type of reference number for your email complaint. They should give one automatically I guess. I'm not sure about nVidia.

Write to the BBB in their area, and your local BBB. Get others to do the same. They will ask you if you tried discussing this directly with the other party. When you fill this in, be sure to list the reference numbers to your conversation/complaint with the manufacture and nVidia.

Try to get them, those with 6800 Gt's/ultras to post their complaints at nVidia's own forums. This post would include a text as to why they are un happy with their 6800 GT/Ultra product. In addition, have them post their BBB complaints as well with all the reference numbers to their complaints. Granted, this should all be in one thread.

Obviously send the links to card manufactures as well. You want this main thread at nVidias forums for a main point of reference as well as keeping statistics of how many people you are gathering for your cause thus you want to save this thread as often as possible. In case they just go ahead and delete it.




You need a significant amount of people for this. Your best bet would be to visit multiple forums (diehard enthusiast forums are a must). If you manage to to break 500 post on the forum you started at nvidia's forums like I mention ed not only will they begin to notice but you may have enough to try to get websites like The Inquirer, Hardocp, beyond3d, Tomshardware, etc.. to take notice and hopefully get some of them to do a brief mention of it. I think the Inquirer will jump on board easily. (xmasgrin) But these are 500 post with complaints and copies of their BBB complaints, not replies those don't count.


Even if you did that I would be very skeptical of any action. I mean, you have to intimidate the manufactures enough so that they can put pressure on nVidia. nVidia couldn't give a rats ass who you are or what you think, nVidia got paid already for their 6800 GT/Ultra chips. But when the people that buy those chips aren't happy with nVidia, then nVidia will listen or else lose that revenue and then they will care. Its the manufactures that pay nVidia, its them who have to take it up with nVidia.

I mean so what if you buy an ATI board next, who cares if you didn't buy that PNY6800 GT, it's not nVidia's problem, its PNY's problem. So what if PNY says "f-you" to nVidia, they'll just sell more to Gainward, BFG, whomever. But when they alll gang up with similar complaints, then nVidia will have a problem.

I don't see this happening since you'll have to make your problem, your manufactures problem for them to make it nVidia's problem. The last thing you need anywhere is promises. No more promises from nVidia, no promises from the manufacture, and certainly no promises from people promising that they will do what I outlined up top. You need action from the 6800 GT/Ultra owners, you need action from the manufactures, to get any action from nVidia. (Or even ATI, they have a trade up program that gives you 50USD off any card you buy from them when you give them your old board from any manufacture.)

r2d2d3d4d5
12-24-04, 02:52 PM
So far I've seen nothing that says hardware decode acceleration. They just say decode acceleration.

My first link are the Tech Specs of the cards. You can't get any clearer than that.

The second link is also pretty clear:

Video Decoding
Another important factor is that the GeForce 6 Series GPUs are completely programmable and can handle formats such as WMV9 and MPEG-4. The NVIDIA motion compensation engine can provide decompression acceleration for a variety of video formats including WMV9, MPEG-4, H.264, and DiVX. As with motion compensation for MPEG-2, the NVIDIA video engine can perform most of the computation-intensive work, leaving the easiest work to the CPU.
Video Encoding
The GeForce 6 Series GPUs are also capable of hardware video encode acceleration. Traditionally, video encoding is a difficult and time consuming process. The GeForce 6 Series GPUs include a motion estimation engine. Using state-of-the-art technologies, the motion estimation engine delivers higher-quality video at the same or lower bit rate, as well as lower CPU utilization for improved system performance.

Unless nVidia are now claiming that the "NVIDIA motion compensation/estimation engine" was software all along (PureVideo?). In which case I'm still waiting to see the features advertised (software or hardware) working on my card. (OK this probably does sound a little whiney but I am trying to help clarify something :sry: )

superklye
12-24-04, 03:39 PM
I'm pissed. We're all pissed. We've all whined and complained. And for good reason.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I'm not pissed. I haven't (and won't) whined nor have I complained about the "broken" VPU. You know why? Because I didn't spend $411 (w/shipping) for a Goddamned video accelerator. The point of this super-high end card is for gaming and in that it has excelled.

I didn't even know there was supposed to be a VPU on the card and had I known before, I still wouldn't care becuase I think anyone who bought this card for more video acceleration than for gaming was a fool that wasted $400+.

The VPU doesn't work on the 6800s, boohoo. Sell your card and get a 6600; those apparently work fine.

r2d2d3d4d5
12-24-04, 05:20 PM
I didn't even know there was supposed to be a VPU on the card and had I known before, I still wouldn't care becuase I think anyone who bought this card for more video acceleration than for gaming was a fool that wasted $400+.

Not sure who you are calling a fool but I bought my card for a bunch of reasons. One of them was video acceleration. It's not much to expect the card to work as advertised to be honest.

By the way, can you please keep this to "what we can do about it". I'm sure you and/or others have made the same point over and over again in other threads. It would be nice to talk about something slightly different. Thank you.

And one last thing....please don't post any "just get over it" or "why are you so upset over a peace of hardware" responses.

smallSHEEP
12-24-04, 05:26 PM
Tbh I couldn't give a flying monkey's if the WMV9 video decoding works or not, even Mpeg2 decoding is a bonus as my software decoder seems to do a sterling job.

smthmlk
12-24-04, 06:13 PM
I really don't care as well :) I'm able to watch dvd's in linux with my bfg 6800 nu and it uses 19-20% constantly (gkrellm's cpu meter, using xine to play the dvd) after watching a dvd at full screen (1600x1200). Excellent quality, I'm happy. Windows Media bloz anyways, but Ive not had any problems with cpu usage while playing those or anything else either. (nvidia-1.0-6629)

Q
12-25-04, 12:26 AM
Thanks for the compliment, racingx.

smallSHEEP, MPEG 2 decoding shouldn't really be a bonus of any sort. My Voodoo 5 could do it with a little program from 3dfx. That was a LOOOONG time ago. Cards have been doing MPEG2 forever.

superklye, you might have missed my point... I'm a gamer first most and foremost. Thats the reason for me getting an Ultra and not a Vanilla. I just wanted to make sure that I could keep my system "as is" for as long as possible. I should have said "anyone who wanted to future proof...ect...would be pissed as hell". Sorry for making you pissed...or assuming youre pissed....or....aww pooh. (xmasmile)

marsomega, I believe you listed every outcome and course of action. Bravo!

I know the box to my EVGA 6800 Ultra said it, the website I bought it from said it, and I did check NVIDIA's website before I made my purchase to confirm the feature list.

But if this thread has taught me anything....which I should have learned after the mega thread on this subject....is that there are not enough people upset about this to actually do anything about it. Fancy marketing speak and mumbo jumbo got the few of us that actually care.

Before this turns into a complete whine/get over it thread...I ask for a closing. Mod...put her to sleep.

It turns out that we're just S. O. L., I guess.


And you know what that means.

marsomega
12-25-04, 02:38 AM
Thanks for the compliment, racingx.

smallSHEEP, MPEG 2 decoding shouldn't really be a bonus of any sort. My Voodoo 5 could do it with a little program from 3dfx. That was a LOOOONG time ago. Cards have been doing MPEG2 forever.

superklye, you might have missed my point... I'm a gamer first most and foremost. Thats the reason for me getting an Ultra and not a Vanilla. I just wanted to make sure that I could keep my system "as is" for as long as possible. I should have said "anyone who wanted to future proof...ect...would be pissed as hell". Sorry for making you pissed...or assuming youre pissed....or....aww pooh. (xmasmile)

marsomega, I believe you listed every outcome and course of action. Bravo!

I know the box to my EVGA 6800 Ultra said it, the website I bought it from said it, and I did check NVIDIA's website before I made my purchase to confirm the feature list.

But if this thread has taught me anything....which I should have learned after the mega thread on this subject....is that there are not enough people upset about this to actually do anything about it. Fancy marketing speak and mumbo jumbo got the few of us that actually care.

Before this turns into a complete whine/get over it thread...I ask for a closing. Mod...put her to sleep.

It turns out that we're just S. O. L., I guess.


And you know what that means.

Cheer up. NVNEWS forums, doesn't represent the NVIDIA community only a small part of it. Try somewhere else. (xmassign2

r2d2d3d4d5
12-25-04, 06:58 AM
Oh well. I guess it was a worth a try.

I emailed MSI yesterday to ask for clarification/info. I hope the people that care about this situation do something and donít just go away quietly.

(xmastree) (xmassign2 (xmastree)