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Vid_craze
08-05-02, 01:37 PM
Wll please understand I have tons of info for nVidia team members if they want them.

See I feel if their new GPU will be as powerful as they say it will be then a Movie type of name for their new GPU card might be a good idea.

Ok what I suggest nVidia do is basicly this. Get a working modle of their card that will out perfore the ATI model. Makeing it a slower than max is ok for release. Then sell it for as little as they can and make little profite per card or chip as they can. Hopeing this will sell less than the 399.99 than the ATI card will. After they have gotten some profite back from their first line then they have demo boths set up all over in Best Buy or some other US based store. EB wouold also bea selection but kinda small. Have a demo on how an end use could do CGI and how it would look. Then release a mid range card in the new year slightly more profite or if the first gen is not selling good release the next gen product at the same lowered price. Tring to get small profit per card but selling more cards to get a bigger profit. One it has gotten excpted come out with the fastest bit for the card fastest ram and core settings. This will keep the bar riseing and have something people could upgrade with some online retailers like evga or such, I am sure if there is little mark-up then the cars would still return a bigger profite.

Also most video cards lower later after they have been released. But if nVidia plays their cards right and tells them trade a compeitor's card and we will see it to you for x price. For what would normaly be a small profit and then later removeing the deal and not lowering the cards in price.

Another idiea is to release the card at a lower price for the first month then people might opt to get card quicker than normal becuase it would be more expencive the secound month. Store could issue rain check for when cards are not in stock and or pre-orders so custoers could get it at the lower price. What ever you can to get a larg number of cards sold at the begining. Later releasing the next line of cards and have retailers do an exchange and the card they are exchangeing would be the first gen card that willl only go up in price that customer would repurchase at a higher price tag. So the cards would be lower in price the first month of release. I think it would incouriage better sales open release.

Ok theory and how it works to clearify myself.

I will call the card Pantera 1 and so on.

Ok Pantera 1 sells for 249.99 on dabeu first month
total destination cost would be 215. Like the Ti 4200 but came out first.

Next month after the Pantera 1 rases it's price to 289.99 or so the Pantera 2 comes out at 299.95 total destination cost would be 265. People that bought the Pentera 1 could upgrade to the Pantera 2 for 50. Must have the origain stuff included and the card has to be in fair condition. Evga could resell these as long as they pass the test that everythign is good on them. They still will get 30 dollars profit on them after purchasing them back.

Next gen Pantera 3 comes out the very next month for 399.99. Total destionation cost being 355. Price of Pantera 2 Rases to 349.99 and people that bought the Pantera 2 can get it upgraded for 100. Still giveing the retailer 50 dollars profit. Pantera 1 ownder only get upgrade the frist month of release. and so goes the Pantera 1 to Pantera 2 cards. Now retailers could change this but later the prices will drop and would not work to well. Plus people that have the first gen card would have used it a little much more than most.

After the 399.99 release price it would then go upto 449 or 499 depending on costs that are involved. Market would then have all the cards at the price point they wanted and alot of people would have nVidia cards the Pantera line. Most saveing 20 to 100 dollars.

What do you guies thing a good idea or dumb idea. Hey I don't mind there are flaws in everything just though I would share an idea with everyone.

I know don't have to tell me I am a dreamer.

nutball
08-05-02, 03:28 PM
Hummm. So what you're saying is they should create a ****-kicking card and sell it at almost zero profit. In other words as cheap as possible. So you can afford it?

Funny how everybody wants that, isn't it?

The world, for next to nothing.

Like if Ford or General Motors sold cars for $99. They'd sell loads! For about six months, until the money ran out.

Face it, if NV30 cards are only as good as R300, they'll cost $399, same as R300. If they're better they'll cost more. If it's a lot better it'll cost a lot more. Especially if they're having yield problems with 0.13u or 500MHz DDR-2 memory is rare like hens teeth.

Doesn't matter if they've lost the performance crown at this moment (and on the basis of cards on the shelves right now they haven't). The performance lead (or otherwise) of NV30 over the market competitors will determine the price. Because some people are willing to pay for the bragging rights...

Just my 0.02.

pelly
08-05-02, 04:10 PM
Wll please understand I have tons of info for nVidia team members if they want them.

:confused:

saturnotaku
08-05-02, 04:41 PM
pelly,

I think he means to say that he has "information" on how nVidia's engineers and marketing people should do their job so they might sell their cards at next to no profit so he might be able to afford one.

Sorry, pal, not gonna happen. nVidia's going to sell them at the price they deem fit and you know what? People will eat them up, especially if the NV30 turns out whallup the R300.

As much as we'd like companies to charge what we would like, that ain't how it works in the business world. It doesn't take an MBA to figure that out.

Vid_craze
08-05-02, 05:35 PM
Well what I was tring to say haveing a lower entry price for a month. People or at least I know people that just just jump out and get video cards when they come out becuase they are waiting for them to drop in price.

The old supply and demand type of escapade. If you think about it is there something better than supply and demaind. Tring to get around supply and demaind is hard but is it possible?

Well just a though is all. Well see ya.

r2d2d3d4d5
08-05-02, 07:38 PM
Some how I don't think demand will be a problem.....

StealthHawk
08-05-02, 09:00 PM
and even if they have a lower price at introduction people will still wait for prices to drop :rolleyes:

i don't believe anybody would buy the card after prices went up, they would wait until prices go back down. that is certainly the way that most consumers shop. it would also be impossible for nvidia to control prices in under this scheme. unless they raised the prices that the boards cost for the resellers. i don't think retailers would be happy about that. it is more typical to see price wars where prices are lowered, it never happens where prices raise, unless the supply is extremely limited.

saturnotaku
08-05-02, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
it never happens where prices raise, unless the supply is extremely limited.

This is a scenario far more common in the automobile industry - take the Honda S2000 as an example. Initial quantities for this car were so small that dealers could often get more than $5000 over the sticker price for one. Of course, we're talking about a $30,000 automobile and not a $400 video card. A price war with prices going up will never happen in the technology industry because it would be stupid. Why limit quantities of an item so the price will go up when you can make even more money by having your prices stay level (and go lower) by keeping with your same manufacturing processes?

ChrisW
08-06-02, 01:40 AM
Man, you guys just don't have a clue do you??? NVidia does not make graphics cards. They sell the chips to other manufacturers who actually make the cards. Are you saying all the card manufacturers are going to give away these cards? They are making cards for one reason only...to make a profit. They will charge as much money for the card that they think they can get!

StealthHawk
08-06-02, 02:06 AM
nvidia sets an MSRP at manufacturers generally fall in line with it.

don't forget that the market is not dominated by nvidia. ATI would be sure to capitalize on nvidia RAISING prices...by staying with their own lower price, or by lowering their already lower price. if a nvidia card suddenly rockets in price by $50-100 do you think people will still buy it over ATI? i know i wouldn't. i would never buy a product from a company that uses underhanded tactics like that(raising MSRP). i think many people would agree with me.

edit: nvidia tried selling the gf3 for $500, but when that price was announced, what happened? please don't insult myself and others and tell us that we "don't get it."

edit#2: maybe someone should tell you that you don't always incur the highest profit by setting the highest price. how many people are going to buy a $400 card every 6 months when games are lagging farther and farther behind? true, the R9700 is the first card where you can basically max out FSAA and AF at super high resolutions and get away with it, but most people don't use those options nor those high resolutions. what i'm getting at is, unless people need extra power, they aren't going to upgrade unless the price is right.

nutball
08-06-02, 03:08 AM
StealthHawk: I half agree with you, higher prices don't always mean higher overall profits, but on the other hand there is the "Rolls Royce" factor. Some people will pay stupid amounts of money every 6 months to stay 2 years ahead of games engines! :eek:

But I really think that the pricing strategy will depend on by how much (or not) NV30 spanks R300. If it really lays the smack down then the price will undoubtedly be higher.

Of course they can always play the 4200/4400/4600 trick, and have different cards with different clock speeds and different prices. This will make them both price competitive whilst also allowing them to fleece the gotta-have-the-fastest crowd for some free dollars.

ChrisW: If nVidia are selling NV30 chips to the card manufacturers for $100 each that sets a lower limit for the price of a card, doesn't it? So at least some of the final price is in the gift of nVidia.

ChrisW
08-06-02, 03:29 AM
Obviously you guys still don't get it. It was the original assumption that nVidia was making these cards and therefore could make and sell the card for little to no profit. Or was it not?

Secondly, if nVidia set the MSRP of a board to be so low that the card manufacturers could not make a profit, how many of them would product nVidia boards? They would find another chipset to use on their boards. Face it, these manufacturers are not doing this for nothing! If ASUS does not make enough profit selling nVidia cards, believe me the they will drop nVidia fast.

nutball
08-06-02, 04:51 AM
You are correct, nVidia doesn't set the final price.

The commercial incentives for the board manufacturers are broadly in line with nVidias though; if NV30-based cards kick R300-butt they will sell at a premium price. If they don't they won't.

nVidia could sell NV30s at a loss to lower the final price of the board, but I see absolutely no reason for them to do so (epspecially given the state of their share price!). Even if they did, the board manufacturers would probably just cream off the extra profit.

StealthHawk
08-06-02, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by ChrisW
Obviously you guys still don't get it. It was the original assumption that nVidia was making these cards and therefore could make and sell the card for little to no profit. Or was it not?

Secondly, if nVidia set the MSRP of a board to be so low that the card manufacturers could not make a profit, how many of them would product nVidia boards? They would find another chipset to use on their boards. Face it, these manufacturers are not doing this for nothing! If ASUS does not make enough profit selling nVidia cards, believe me the they will drop nVidia fast.

ah, i see. you were criticizing the original idea. ok then, i've got nothing against you :D

you're absolutely right, even if you discounted the board manufacturers, nvidia nor anyone else would shoot for normal profits(breaking even). it's just not a good business plan.

SavagePaladin
08-07-02, 12:17 AM
what mental ward did he break out from this time? You guys really ought to find a more secured location.
____
ahem, i was pretty sure that nvambat dude was in here...

Bigus Dickus
08-07-02, 01:04 AM
Wow. All I can say is wow. I think every rule in the business book was broken in that first post. :cool:

ATI LoVeR 9700
08-07-02, 01:09 AM
ATi could rule! They could MAXX nVidias ass!

I think us fanATics have been too nice to nVidiots and should rub it in on how ATi is awesome and nVidia is not. :D I mean a whitepaper and rumors are nothing! Can't wait for the R350, or R400, to put you all more into your places. :cool:

(BTW, I'm just messing around! :p So, don't go nuts!)

SavagePaladin
08-07-02, 07:36 AM
Chr*** dude, shut the hell up already. We go through this every damn time ATI releases a card.
Get a clue....

StealthHawk
08-07-02, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by SavagePaladin
Chr*** dude, shut the hell up already. We go through this every damn time ATI releases a card.
Get a clue....

and he always makes it a joke :o

Vid_craze
08-07-02, 07:58 AM
Ok now this is why I think this plan would work as others would not. People that have used an nVidia gen processor as their main Vid card has for the most part fell in love with them. ATI does have some issues (drivers) that kinda stop people from falling in Love with them as much. This is why if nVidia has an upgrade play I know that places like eVga do have upgrade option but only one card upgrade so it can be done and I think eVga makes good profit already. If nVidia indorced this option I think one or two of the End sellers Retailers would adopt this idea. Even if it is flawed the main jest of the idea is (even if they are makeing a small profit or little proofit in the begining) to delay the higher price for a week/month or even just pre-orders and release the cards one by one from smallest to largest. Not two large cards and then a smaller card. Granted the reason they implied this was that the mx cards were close in performance and the inital price would be to high to get the card to sell. Now everyone out there has a band wagon they cling to. I love ATI's hardware don't get me wrong ATI has a really good idea they even havea really good paten that I think rocks. The render this frame now then the next frame next. That really does a good job at breakeing down the rendering into half unless there is something that only is rendered every other screen or only one screen but I don't ever thing that will happen possible yes but hey anything is possible. The nVidia has the 3DFX even odd scan line rendering. This is good but there are some games that have effects that are interlaces mode to creat an effect like a sniper rifel in a q3 mod that interlesed the screen and had a mid sized circle that was zoomed inwith the cross hair big. Well abck to the point. I think it is a really good idea for someone to relese a card that would be lesser in cost for at least a breif moment in time even if it would be limited quinities. this would hopeful perswade some of the non nVidia fans to try them. Once you try them your hooked well ok maybe not some people get so abstraced about their video cards that the see stuff that is not there. Well futher ado and hey ATI 9700 lover I hope the drivers are really good becuase that is what i have had the biggest issues with. Even my friend that has an ATI. I spent tons of times getting Power DVD to work on her XP box becuase the ATI dvd player would not work with the driver she needed to use for her video card and via chipset. Older NT2000 beta driver.

saturnotaku
08-07-02, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Vid_craze
Ok now this is why I think this plan would work as others would not. People that have used an nVidia gen processor as their main Vid card has for the most part fell in love with them. ATI does have some issues (drivers) that kinda stop people from falling in Love with them as much. This is why if nVidia has an upgrade play I know that places like eVga do have upgrade option but only one card upgrade so it can be done and I think eVga makes good profit already. If nVidia indorced this option I think one or two of the End sellers Retailers would adopt this idea. Even if it is flawed the main jest of the idea is (even if they are makeing a small profit or little proofit in the begining) to delay the higher price for a week/month or even just pre-orders and release the cards one by one from smallest to largest. Not two large cards and then a smaller card. Granted the reason they implied this was that the mx cards were close in performance and the inital price would be to high to get the card to sell. Now everyone out there has a band wagon they cling to. I love ATI's hardware don't get me wrong ATI has a really good idea they even havea really good paten that I think rocks. The render this frame now then the next frame next. That really does a good job at breakeing down the rendering into half unless there is something that only is rendered every other screen or only one screen but I don't ever thing that will happen possible yes but hey anything is possible. The nVidia has the 3DFX even odd scan line rendering. This is good but there are some games that have effects that are interlaces mode to creat an effect like a sniper rifel in a q3 mod that interlesed the screen and had a mid sized circle that was zoomed inwith the cross hair big. Well abck to the point. I think it is a really good idea for someone to relese a card that would be lesser in cost for at least a breif moment in time even if it would be limited quinities. this would hopeful perswade some of the non nVidia fans to try them. Once you try them your hooked well ok maybe not some people get so abstraced about their video cards that the see stuff that is not there. Well futher ado and hey ATI 9700 lover I hope the drivers are really good becuase that is what i have had the biggest issues with. Even my friend that has an ATI. I spent tons of times getting Power DVD to work on her XP box becuase the ATI dvd player would not work with the driver she needed to use for her video card and via chipset. Older NT2000 beta driver.

Sheesh, I had to read through that like 3 times to try and get a point out of it. But your point about the releasing a card at a lower prince - isn't that like the Ti4200? I mean, that card is 80% of a Ti4600 at half the price. There are few people who would argue that the Ti4200 is the best value gaming card on the market right now.

SavagePaladin
08-07-02, 11:29 AM
I'd go for the 4400. The 4200 is a bit too crippled for me :(
if NV30 ships in two states instead of three, lower clock and higher....and the difference is signficant, yet overclocking is possible easily on the lower....I think that'll be cool.
No 'more memory less speed' BS

StealthHawk
08-07-02, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku


Sheesh, I had to read through that like 3 times to try and get a point out of it. But your point about the releasing a card at a lower prince - isn't that like the Ti4200? I mean, that card is 80% of a Ti4600 at half the price. There are few people who would argue that the Ti4200 is the best value gaming card on the market right now.

his plan is to release the ti4200 first at a lower price. then release the 4400 and raise the price of 4200. then release 4600 and raise the price of the other two.

nvidia's problem is that prices never seem to drop on their cards. but i guess it isn't a "problem" because nvidia keeps selling cards and turning a great profit :p now that ATI seems to be on the game, they mgiht have to play the price card. we'll find out at R9700 launch time.

SnakeEyes
08-08-02, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
now that ATI seems to be on the game, they mgiht have to play the price card. we'll find out at R9700 launch time.
That's the biggest reason why I'm happy ATI keeps at it (even though I personally haven't seen an ATI card that would satisfy me yet.), and that so many people are ATI fans. If the ATI cards sell well enough, the pressure is kept on nVidia to stay competitive both feature and price-wise, so all of us get newer, faster, better tech for more affordable costs. (I'm one of the guys that was gonna skip on GF3 for $600, lol).

The Processor
08-13-02, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
I think us fanATics have been too nice to nVidiots and should rub it in on how ATi is awesome and nVidia is not.

If you are feeling exceptionally stupid, go right ahead. It won't be doing me any harm, as I have matured into adulthood. ;)


Originally posted by StealthHawk


and he always makes it a joke :o

Yes he does, or tries to.

I am feeling a bit testy, so enjoy this example of another member's constant foolishness, courtesy of The Processor:

ATiLover9700: Hey NVIDIOTS!!! Wake up and smell the ATi!!! I hate you stupid, worthless, and ugly NVIDIOTS, always trying to spoil ATi's day with your suxxorse propaganda. Just wait till ATi puts the smack down on you, and makes your stupid 400 dollar cards look like a 6 year old Trident HahahahahahahahahahIDIOTShahehehehehehFOOOLShehehe !!!

Just joking, don't "go crazy".) ATI FOREVER (even if they have repeatedly screwed me over with every product launch to date) and NVIDIA SUXXXORZZZ!!!!!


Pathetic.