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Ryo-Ohki
11-23-02, 05:45 PM
Well, looks like my first GF4 will turn out being a bad experience. A pity when you consider this thing can almost rival my Raddy 8500, even if teamed with a CPU slower by some 400MHz (and it's a coppermine vs. a tualatin-S).

Anyway. The card giving me trouble is a Chaintec GeForce 4 Ti4200. I could only install and test it today, due to severe time constraints during the past week. Running Windows 2000 SP2 with Detonator 40.72 (WHQL), didn't went as far as trying out Linux.

Things started out nicely enough (a first 3DMark test completed successfully), when I decided to test the setup against a real game, namley, Tournament. D3D... Okay. OpenGL (with the updated renderer)... Uh-Oh. Big freeze, or rather, important stutter, even during the "desktop phase" (meaning, the display would lock for some ten seconds, control returns, me moves the mouse to another menu item, freeze again, and so on).

Reboot.

Fire up Tournament again, like, "WTF, OpenGL doesn't work on a GF4 ?" - set back to D3D... Bam, same unexpected hard freeze. Gah.

Reboot.

Fires up 3DMark again. Goes as far as the first part of the first test. Hard system lock with flickering, corrupted screen. Uh-oh.

Reboot.

Out of luck, I decide to check on the event viewer... Argh. A gazillon errors with "nv" as the source.

event id 6 : Parse Error on CMDCD adress1 adress2 adress3 adress4 adress5

event id 8 : Idle Timeout Error Channel 00000001

event id 13 : GR SW Notify Error on 0001 beef9701 adress1 adress2 adress3 adress4

Kiss the 40.72 good-bye, installs the drivers which came with the card. Went fine for half and hour. Freeze again on the Tournament menu, but with no error logged.

Reboot.

Re-installs the 40.72. Again, fine for a couple of minutes, then BAM, freeze. Events logged back as well.

I don't have any problem in 2D, but any kind of 3D kills the card. Checked fan = OK. Temperature = OK, as far as I can tell. Stock clocking.

GeForce 4 Ti4200 on ASUS TUSL2-C with P!!! 800 MHz. Clean install of Windows 2000 SP2. I'm this close -> || <- to RMA the card first thing monday morning and get the MSI I wanted at first (magically reappeared last time I visited)... :sigh:

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Bigus Dickus
11-23-02, 08:18 PM
Just curious, was this a fresh OS install, or was the 8500 in the system previously?

Ryo-Ohki
11-23-02, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Just curious, was this a fresh OS install, or was the 8500 in the system previously?

Nope. Fresh install on fresh new system (kind of, founded on some parts I had lying around). Luckily for me the Raddy 8500 is still performing happily in its own system, and I hope it will continue to do so for some time.

But as I tend to be a little paranoid when it comes down to driver upgrade, all the more so hardware change, I would have reformatted had I swapped cards.

Actually, I've found a reference on this board totally out of luck which fits in my issue well enough...

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=3822

I'm currently wiping out the system and re-installing from scratch. I'll be giving the drivers that came on the CD another shot (28.32 or something). Could be some leftovers from the 40.72 screwed up last time.

Ryo-Ohki
11-24-02, 03:40 AM
*** BUMP ***

Well, no go. Clean re-installed and tried Tournament in OpenGL, went two seconds into the intro before it crashed with a hard lock. Worked half an hour with Direct3D before it crashed also.

Drivers used were 28.32 on Windows 2000 SP2.

And I can't seem to be able to get the 30.x from nVidia's FTP for some reason (download just doesn't start).

I wonder if any of you can suggest any GOOD driver that may work... Or to check if something on the card is borked... I'm completely stumped.

saturnotaku
11-24-02, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
And I can't seem to be able to get the 30.x from nVidia's FTP for some reason (download just doesn't start).

I wonder if any of you can suggest any GOOD driver that may work... Or to check if something on the card is borked... I'm completely stumped.

If you or a friend have the third CD of UT2003, the 30.82 drivers are on that disc. Those are about the best drivers if you need a fallback.

Since you're on Win 2k, have you tried the 41.03 set? Those have had a very high success rate from what I've read.

Could you also post the rest of your system specs and any other drivers you've installed to see if it might be an issue with your motherboard chipset?

Ryo-Ohki
11-25-02, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Could you also post the rest of your system specs and any other drivers you've installed to see if it might be an issue with your motherboard chipset?

The chipset is an i815 EP (has to be the most stable chipset for P!!!'s so far), I've got the same mobo in my Radeon 8500 box and it works just great. And I mean, not a single issue - ever.

I only installed the INF update from Intel for the chipset, DirectX 8.1, and SP2. the soundcard is an "antique" A3D-based Aztech soundcard Win2K detected and installed by itself.

Also, I installed PowerStrip and noticed something. The card is clocked 250/515. I have no clue wether the +15 MHz (isn't the standard Ti 4200 250/500?) could cause all these trouble.

What I'm gonna do in the meantime is grab another Ti4200 off a friend today (I know it works), re-install from scratch and try again. I'll also try with the drivers you mentionned if I can ever get them...:)

Thanks.

Ryo-Ohki
11-25-02, 11:06 AM
Gaaaaah...

Well, now I know there's something wrong with my system. I finally decided to RMA my card (good opportunity if anything else, I got the MSI and its awesome package for 10 less than the Chaintech)...

I reformatted and installed the 30.82 drivers too...

... And it crashes again in 3D Mark.


I know the RAM is good since it was into another rig before, and everything was fine in 3D intensive apps. Could this be my PSU ? It's a generic 300W, should I get a 350W ? Where I'm confused is that the very same PSU was sufficient enough for both my Radeon 7200 & my Radeon 8500... Are the GeForces so much more power hungry ?

saturnotaku
11-25-02, 11:11 AM
Maybe a conflict between your video card and sound card?

Also, what was the order in which you installed your operating system? Did you do it, OS, Intel .inf driver, DX 8.1, SP2?

The way I've always installed 2000 is OS, Service Pack, motherboard driver, DirectX, all other drivers (video, sound, etc).

Have you also tried not installing any motherboard drivers at all? Or maybe there's an updated AGP driver that will cooperate with the newer GeForce4 Ti?

Ryo-Ohki
11-25-02, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Maybe a conflict between your video card and sound card?

Also, what was the order in which you installed your operating system? Did you do it, OS, Intel .inf driver, DX 8.1, SP2?

The way I've always installed 2000 is OS, Service Pack, motherboard driver, DirectX, all other drivers (video, sound, etc).

Have you also tried not installing any motherboard drivers at all? Or maybe there's an updated AGP driver that will cooperate with the newer GeForce4 Ti?

I usually proceed by installing the mobo drivers, SP2, DirectX 8.1 and finally GFX drivers, in that precise order. Always worked, even on VIA systems, so... ;)

Conflicts... I dunno. Maybe, but I doubt it. It doesn't make sense somehow. Intel doesn't have any particular info on conflicting i815 + GeForce 4, and ASUS hasn't anything in store either. I guess I'm just gonna try a new PSU before all, it can't hurt, anyway.

Oh, and if I don't install any mobo drivers, the performance plainly sucks. Didn't do that with my Radeon 8500, I understood my pain. Now that's the first thing I do... :)

saturnotaku
11-25-02, 02:40 PM
Issues like this are hard to explain, especially since you're running an Intel chipset. Normally people say the hardware is garbage if it can't run properly on an Intel chipset.

The PSU is about the last thing I'd say. Get yourself an Antec or other name brand unit. If that doesn't solve your problem, then I don't know what else there could be. :confused:

FastM
11-26-02, 09:56 AM
I dont think drivers is gonna solve your problem, 99% of the time if a system is working right ANY driver set should run stable. Hard Lockup's usually have to do more with Memory problems.. Have you tried the Radeon8500 again just to make sure everything is still okay in your system?

LORD-eX-Bu
11-26-02, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Well, looks like my first GF4 will turn out being a bad experience. A pity when you consider this thing can almost rival my Raddy 8500, even if teamed with a CPU slower by some 400MHz (and it's a coppermine vs. a tualatin-S).

Anyway. The card giving me trouble is a Chaintec GeForce 4 Ti4200. I could only install and test it today, due to severe time constraints during the past week. Running Windows 2000 SP2 with Detonator 40.72 (WHQL), didn't went as far as trying out Linux.

Things started out nicely enough (a first 3DMark test completed successfully), when I decided to test the setup against a real game, namley, Tournament. D3D... Okay. OpenGL (with the updated renderer)... Uh-Oh. Big freeze, or rather, important stutter, even during the "desktop phase" (meaning, the display would lock for some ten seconds, control returns, me moves the mouse to another menu item, freeze again, and so on).

Reboot.

Fire up Tournament again, like, "WTF, OpenGL doesn't work on a GF4 ?" - set back to D3D... Bam, same unexpected hard freeze. Gah.

Reboot.

Fires up 3DMark again. Goes as far as the first part of the first test. Hard system lock with flickering, corrupted screen. Uh-oh.

Reboot.

Out of luck, I decide to check on the event viewer... Argh. A gazillon errors with "nv" as the source.

event id 6 : Parse Error on CMDCD adress1 adress2 adress3 adress4 adress5

event id 8 : Idle Timeout Error Channel 00000001

event id 13 : GR SW Notify Error on 0001 beef9701 adress1 adress2 adress3 adress4

Kiss the 40.72 good-bye, installs the drivers which came with the card. Went fine for half and hour. Freeze again on the Tournament menu, but with no error logged.

Reboot.

Re-installs the 40.72. Again, fine for a couple of minutes, then BAM, freeze. Events logged back as well.

I don't have any problem in 2D, but any kind of 3D kills the card. Checked fan = OK. Temperature = OK, as far as I can tell. Stock clocking.

GeForce 4 Ti4200 on ASUS TUSL2-C with P!!! 800 MHz. Clean install of Windows 2000 SP2. I'm this close -> || <- to RMA the card first thing monday morning and get the MSI I wanted at first (magically reappeared last time I visited)... :sigh:

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

40.72's had compatibility issues with UT2k3, it even locked up on me like it happened to you. So I went to 41.03 and everything fixed itself, until I was dumb enough to update the AGP drivers for my mobo and now it locks up every so often.;) If 41.03's don't fix yer prob go into the bios, and turn off all the video shadows, that why I did usually fixes it, and if it still locks up go to the agp driving control in the bios and try out different settings until you get one that is stable.:D

Ryo-Ohki
11-27-02, 01:41 AM
Well, don't hold me to this, but...

I THINK I'VE GOT THE DAMN CARD WORKING !!! FINALLY !!

What I did was just get a new PSU. Tsunami is now feeding on a silent Antec True Power 380W (no small means) which costed me more than half the price of the card itself (:o), but the crashes appear to be gone, at last.

I've been lacking the proper time to do more in-depth testing, so far I've only be able to complete several 3DMark2001 benchmarks or game tests, and the included demo. With the old PSU the system would usually die before even it even passed the first game test, so I think I'm back on track... I hope...

Hopefully I can be a happy nVidiot Linux user now... ;)

LORD-eX-Bu
11-27-02, 01:44 AM
Thats great to hear. Totally forgot about PSU issue. I guess my prob was with drivers only, cuz I have 500W PSU. On my P3 it locked up sometimes on a 250W PSU, upgraded that and probs went away. Great news, good luck!;) :D

Ryo-Ohki
11-29-02, 02:28 AM
AAAAAAAARRGH !

Guess what, the PSU didn't solve anything after all... :(

Here's what happened after my last post. I was pretty happy stressing the card a little bit with 3DMark2001, just to be sure, and something weird happened. When I reached the Nature test, to my dismay, I was presented with an autumn landscape - the trees had lost their leaves, no grass anymore, and the fisherman was gone. I though it was some kind of easter egg, but no - I realized the water texturing was absent also, in a word, all the moving sprites were missing.
3DMark froze the whole system a couple minutes later on the bump mapping / eight lights test, but I was ready to blame a bug after the Nature "incident" and forgot about it. Repeating the same test afterwards went OK, so... *shrugs*

The moment came when I decided to install Unreal Tournament (original) again. I fired it up in D3D, the intro went just fine, and I could reach the game menu safe and sound. I then tried to set the game preferences to 32-bits color depth... Image returns, colors set OK... And BAM. Hard freeze a couple of seconds later.

Reboot... Tries to run UT in safe mode... And the thing cannot even see a single certified, compatible device, not even the lowly software mode !

Clean reboot : nothing more on the UT's side, still no compatible devices found. 3DMark2001 = hard freeze on the very first test !!

Reboot, same thing. I shut everything down, tomorrow will be another day. So, the day after, power on the PC again, but no, the same damn thing happens.


This morning before leaving for work, I re-install Tournament over the existing copy... Joy, I can fire it up again. 3DMark2001 doesn't crash on the first test, but I had to cancel it well before the end not to be late.


So, I'm still stuck with this random-occuring crashing issue. This is neither the card nor the PSU since both have been replaced, I'm not suspecting overheating since I leave my box open, this leaves me with either faulty memory, IRQ conflicts, an ill-set BIOS or a weird incompatibility of some kind.

True, the memory has been swapped over and over between various systems, so I suppose it could have been damaged somehow, but I've run a Sandra burn-in test on it and it survived. Next thing coming to mind would be to disable IRQ routing in Windows 2000 (since the GF4, soundcard & NIC all share IRQ9), but it never was, and still not is a problem with my Radeon cards. I'm gonna see what it does under Windows 98...

I hate when weirdnesses like that happen... :mad: :(

LORD-eX-Bu
11-29-02, 02:30 AM
Did you try re-installing DX8.1 or upgrading to 8.2?

Ryo-Ohki
11-29-02, 01:37 PM
Well, I feel more and more like I'm facing an IRQ conflict. I've installed Windows 98 and each peripheral is on its own IRQ there, and everything looks fine enough. No crash/freeze whatsoever, if anything Tournament is quite, quite smooth compared to when it ran under Windows 2000. I've got 100+ 3DMarks also, but I don't feel this difference to be very significant.

I'm gonna re-install W2k using the standard PC layer and see what it does.

Gah.

Ryo-Ohki
11-30-02, 06:57 PM
Heh... Busting ACPI off the system appears to have cured my pain. Now the card is resting happily on its own IRQ, and the new WHQL'ed 41.04 set appears to be working all right for now.

Let's see what we've got now...

The Baron
11-30-02, 09:09 PM
You DID leave the PCI slot next to the video card free, right? ;)

cavalier
11-30-02, 10:22 PM
Hate to rain on your parade, but 99.9 percent sure your Chaintech card is the evil seed.

I wish I could remember where (3dgpu.com, then do a search) but a Web site mentioned how shoddy Chaintech cards can be. In this particular threat, it said the GPU cooling fan was rubbing the metal housing.

#1, check ot make sure that GPU fan is operable and the card's not overheating (sounds like it could be).

If that's not it send it back ASAP and get a BFG or Visiontek (if you can still find one) card.

Best of Luck!

LORD-eX-Bu
11-30-02, 11:11 PM
I have a chaintech GF2, never game me probs man. Great board, I think Ryo-ohki solved the prob tho. I have been having lockups with my PNY, but I fixed that too.;) Chaintech has some good products. If it were the fan or anything, I bet Ryo-ohki would have heard it.:D

Ryo-Ohki
12-01-02, 10:25 AM
People, I feel, officially and once again, like an ass. :D

I think I may have the final explanation for why none of the st00pid detonators worked on Windows 2000, and gave me lockups, stuttering, lagging, you name them (all of which happily came back altogether with the 28.32, 30.82, 40.72 or even newer 41.04 set).

The drivers aren't actually st00pid, neither is the GeForce 4. It had probably nothing to do with PSU, ACPI & IRQ routing either.

Everything comes down to the bloody soundcard, or, more specifically, the crappy drivers for it bundled with Windows 2000. The card is "legacy" Aureal A3D Vortex 8820 based I treasured for its true DOS support. After some endless in-depth research, me coming to wits ends, I finally came across Aureal A3D Central (http://members.optusnet.com.au/kirben/) which has a cached copy of a forum where I found the information.
The bad part is they have a link to another site (http://www.vortexofsound.com) with the updated driver I need, but the site appears to be down. The main server still is on-line (pings OK), but I can't seem to access it.

This is also why I get 0 problem with Windows 98, since I'm lucky enough to have the good drivers for this platform.

So that's it - I thank you all for your replies, but there's no way I'll get my Windows 2000 issues fixed before I get a hold of this beta reference driver, if I ever can.
Hopefully I'll have better luck with Linux, but I'm still cursing myself for all the time I lost.

Thanks again.

Retrofire
02-03-03, 07:18 PM
I have suffered for about two months with this problem, and can say without a doubt that I don't get it unless I'm using Detonator 4-series drivers.

Symptoms:

Occasional flickering of 2D desktop, sometimes followed by blank screen or device failure.

Indications:

Event Viewer (System) exhibits a variety of Event 13's, sourced to "nv" which range from "GR SW Notify" errors to Parse and infinite loop occurences.

Treatment:

This problem would disappear for me entirely as soon as I went back to the 30.82 WHQL drivers, but that seemed to be an unattractive option since the Det 4's offer nifty new features and a healthy speed increase.

I ran across two threads while searching Deja News and Winforums, both of which pointed to incriminating software as the culprit. The first post said he had traced the issue to the DivX CODEC, and after removing it, his problems went away. The second thread said that he removed Internet Explorer 6 to cure the problem.

I weighed my options and decided I could live without DivX. I decided against, however, removing Internet Explorer 6. What I *DID* do is go into the Tools>Internet Options>Advanced menu and disable "Smooth Scrolling."

After a reboot on Beta Drivers 42.86, removing DivX, and turning off "Smooth Scrolling" in MSIE 6, I have gone 48 hours error-free.

As an added bonus, the beta drivers fixed (for me) the Quick Launch icon corruption issue.

I will wait another 48 hours to ensure there are no more Event 13's, and if there are not, I will re-enable "Smooth Scrolling." If I'm still stable after that, I will scale back my Detonator 4's one version at a time, to see if the issue resurfaces. If it does not, then DivX will have been the culprit.

Good luck, and I would love to see if this fix can be reproduced.

Cheers,

Ret

Chalnoth
02-03-03, 07:25 PM
It's amazing how many problems IE has caused for various users over the years. That's one reason why I use Mozilla as my primary browser now...