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thcdru2k
11-24-02, 11:56 AM
As you've read on the frontpage, there is a mode 7 fsaa option availible. I've ran some benchmarks with 3dmark with det 41.03 with the new mode 6 and 7 fsaa. according to b3d posters, mode 6 seems to be 6xs and mode 7 is 8x aa.

3dmark2k1 mode 6 fsaa no af: 3029 3dmarks

3dmark2k1 mode 7 fsaa no af: 2377 3dmarks

mode 7 is amazing..there are no jaggies what so ever, i guess this is what it feels like to be a r9700 owner. mode 6 is good but there is the occasional jaggie but its still excellent. i can't wait to see how fast these modes run on a geforcefx.

and if your wondering how to enable these new fsaa, with 40.71 you can use rivatuner power user settings with the 40.71 database.

with 41.03 go into the registry

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Video\{B9B56AF6-1EA8-45AB-8743-8281A3589695}\0000\D3D_70835937=7

that last number can be from 0-7. numbers are concurrent with fsaa modes.

Uttar
11-24-02, 12:29 PM
Could you benchmark with 4xS ( mode 5 ) and 4x ( mode 3 ) too please?

That way we could see the performance drop compared to those AA modes...

If the NV30 supports a fast Mode 7, that would certainly be superior to the R300's 6X AA - But such a thing as "fast 8X AA" doesn't exist I fear :(


Uttar

thcdru2k
11-24-02, 02:58 PM
ok here are the scores, the percentage drop is next to the score compared to default score.

no aa: 11093 100%

mode 3 or 4x aa: 5706 -48.6%

mode 4 or 4x quincunx: 5108 3dmarks -54.0%

mode 5 or 4xs aa: 5258 3dmarks -52.6%

mode 6 or "8x": 3029 3dmarks -72.7%

mode 7 or "6xs": 2377 3dmarks -78.6%

my bad, it seems as though mode 7 is 6xs, and mode 6 is 8x.

just ran 3dmark at 6xs with 8x af. the best looking slideshow ever :)

Uttar
11-24-02, 03:37 PM
Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the benchmark! Not sure if Mode 6 and Mode 7 are really 6xS and 8x, but I guess that'll be a looong debate :)

Also, I'd rather guess Mode 7 is 8xS and Mode 6 6xS - quality of Mode 7 is *significantly* better than the Mode 6 quality in the tube demo ( and, no, I'm not saying this from screenshots, but from actually trying the demo with those AA modes )

If Mode 7 *is* 8xS, performance decreases very linearly - it's a little more than half 4xS :)

Also, this whole thing that 8xS ( or at least 8X ) *is* in the NV20 may mean that...

The aniso optimization you get with RivaTuner IS what nVidia is talking about for the NV30. Maybe just a little more fine tuned.

But then again, that whole idea of mine should be in the rumor mill :)


Uttar

Bigus Dickus
11-24-02, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Uttar

If the NV30 supports a fast Mode 7, that would certainly be superior to the R300's 6X AA - But such a thing as "fast 8X AA" doesn't exist I fear :(


Uttar

Ordered Grid 8X MS/SS superior to true sparse sample 6X RGMS? I don't think so. 8X OGMS is only slightly better in theory than 4X RGMS. The only benefit will be the light texture antialiasing from the 2X SS portion.

EvilEngine
11-24-02, 05:59 PM
Enable D3D_AntiAliasConvolutionFastMode and then come back and tell us the results of your findings. You should easily get a 10% boost on average. Image quality will degrade slightly on the far edges of your screen(more jaggies) but usually unnoticable with these current 40.72 drivers than with early 30 series drivers. These(24-30 series) caused severe purple artifacts on GF4s and a slight "mesh" artifact for GF3s.

thcdru2k
11-24-02, 06:18 PM
too lazy, add 10% to those scores than :)

i just don't know about that..lower iq for 10% performance. i realize its not noticable but if ati is not doing it, than i won't. plus i don't like lowering iq, just doesn't bode well with me.

Geeforcer
11-24-02, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Ordered Grid 8X MS/SS superior to true sparse sample 6X RGMS? I don't think so. 8X OGMS is only slightly better in theory than 4X RGMS. The only benefit will be the light texture antialiasing from the 2X SS portion.

Screenshots seem to indicate otherwise.

EvilEngine
11-24-02, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
too lazy, add 10% to those scores than :)

i just don't know about that..lower iq for 10% performance. i realize its not noticable but if ati is not doing it, than i won't. plus i don't like lowering iq, just doesn't bode well with me.

Heh, sorry when you said you don't like "lowering image quality" then why in your sig do you have "No Lod Adjustments, No AF, No AA", isnt that concidered lowered image quality?
Sorry, I just had to harp about that. Seems ironic to me.
Just seems like such a cool guy as yourself who is such a stickler for image quality would be proud of his 3dmarks with all the goodies on, at least thats what it seems.

thcdru2k
11-24-02, 07:10 PM
does it say in my sig i play games at those settings ? i play ALL my games with 2x quincunx and 4x af and i'm proud to say i get somewhere around 7000 3dmarks.

EvilEngine
11-24-02, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
does it say in my sig i play games at those settings ? i play ALL my games with 2x quincunx and 4x af and i'm proud to say i get somewhere around 7000 3dmarks.

Exactly , thank you for making my point even more clear.
It was a suggestion to try the conv. mode in the benchmarks, just as you did for 3dmark, doesnt mean you ALWAYS have to play with it on. Ironically, it does help in games where the AA causes a mean hit, and your willing to sacrifice minor to unnoticable loss in quality(in areas of the screen you may never see) to gain the fps. Thats my point , and it just seems you misunderstood.

demonized
11-24-02, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
does it say in my sig i play games at those settings ? i play ALL my games with 2x quincunx and 4x af and i'm proud to say i get somewhere around 7000 3dmarks.

quincunx is only 2xaa? Ive always thought its 4xaa

netviper13
11-24-02, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by demonized
quincunx is only 2xaa? Ive always thought its 4xaa

It's supposed to have the same AA effect as 4x with the perf. hit of 2x, but unfortunately it ended up basically being 2x with a blur applied.

thcdru2k
11-25-02, 12:02 AM
i think of it as 3xaa. its better than 2x but not quite as good as 4x.

Typedef Enum
11-25-02, 02:57 AM
Yuck...

Quincunx had a place when AA was an expensive thing to do, and the desire was to attempt to do more with less.

I think the concept will always be there, but at some point, you have to establish a threshold where you "won't go there" when it comes to the tradeoff between quality/performance.

I think Quincunx is in that "don't go there" territory, IMHO. The blur is not something I personally dig too much in this day in age. Perhaps they could refine the algorithm to make it less blurry (which they eventually did, to a certain extent)...But as it stands now, I would never invoke Quincunx.

Personally...this is my own little X-Files take on the NV30...But I'm very surprised in that they didn't bring out a completely new AA implementation...and based on the difficulty that they had in designing this chip, I'm going to suggest that we will see something much different with NV35. I think they did, in fact, eliminate functionality in order to get this thing to market.

It just doesn't make a heck of alot of sense to, for all intents and purposes, retain the same AA schema as was found in the GF3/4. The fact that you can employ these supposedly newer AA modes on older chips just seems...err...not right :)

Anyhow, we'll see how it shakes out...but I'm just going to hazard a guess that the followup product will have some newer implementations, as it relates to AA. All IMHO, of course :)

StealthHawk
11-25-02, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by demonized
quincunx is only 2xaa? Ive always thought its 4xaa

"4x QCA" is called 4x + 9tap ;)

thcdru2k
11-25-02, 09:31 AM
just technically it isn't quincunx because 9-tap is better

aths
11-25-02, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
just technically it isn't quincunx because 9-tap is better Its even more worse (due its heavy blurring.)

Gargr
11-25-02, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by EvilEngine
Enable D3D_AntiAliasConvolutionFastMode and then come back and tell us the results of your findings. You should easily get a 10% boost on average. Image quality will degrade slightly on the far edges of your screen(more jaggies) but usually unnoticable with these current 40.72 drivers than with early 30 series drivers. These(24-30 series) caused severe purple artifacts on GF4s and a slight "mesh" artifact for GF3s.

How do i enable this thing?

Uttar
11-25-02, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Ordered Grid 8X MS/SS superior to true sparse sample 6X RGMS? I don't think so. 8X OGMS is only slightly better in theory than 4X RGMS. The only benefit will be the light texture antialiasing from the 2X SS portion.

Well, If I'm not confused, if Mode 6 is 6xS and it's rotated while Mode 7 is 8xS and it's ordered... Then feel free to use Mode 6, I'll use Mode 7 :)

Mode 7 quality is just AMAZING. Please don't think I'm saying that based on screenshots. I've tried every AA mode from 0 to 7 with the tube demo - and WOW, what a difference Mode 7 does!

Both Mode 5 & Mode 6 still got some annoying aliasing ( very normal with the tube demo, really ) - but once you activate Mode 7... Aliasing barely exists! It's nearly perfect! It's... Amazing :)

If I could have that on the NV30, and still have acceptable FPS, I think the label "heavily subjective" would rapidly be mine. It's just too great.


Uttar

Gargr
11-25-02, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Gargr
How do i enable this thing?

and where can i get this tube demo

thcdru2k
11-25-02, 12:48 PM
i agree..mode 7 is really that much better than everything else. there are no jaggies at all at 1024x768. if the geforce fx can run that resolution smooth, than it'll be a great card.

EvilEngine
11-25-02, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Gargr
How do i enable this thing?

Ok in your registry make sure your settings match what I have here in this screenshot.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjonessprint01/screenshots/reg.gif

Then enable this option under D3D in your powerusers tab in RT:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjonessprint01/screenshots/conv.gif

You can get the D3D Tubes HERE (http://evilengine.apokalyptik.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=1)

Gargr
11-25-02, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by EvilEngine
Ok in your registry make sure your settings match what I have here in this screenshot.
http://nemesis.segfault.ws:81/~evilengine/Screenshots/reg.gif
Then enable this option under D3D in your powerusers tab in RT:
http://nemesis.segfault.ws:81/~evilengine/Screenshots/conv.gif

You can get the D3D Tubes HERE (http://evilengine.apokalyptik.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=1)

Thanks
i'll try it now

G6-200
11-25-02, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Geeforcer
Screenshots seem to indicate otherwise.

I agree, and seeing this in action provides the most rock solid image I have ever seen, including ATI's 6xAA.
Of course it's going to take NV30 to provide it at reasonable framerates, but if this is an indication of what it's going to look like Nvidia is definitley on the right track.

G6