PDA

View Full Version : Metroid for Gamecube... H.Q. Game?


ragejg
11-25-02, 12:28 PM
I played the Gamecube Metroid theis weekend, and found it to be thoroughly enjoying... There seems to be some really slick gfx tricks employed in this... Decent controls, and very "nintendo-Y" music... I think it's one of the better fps' released this year.

For those that have played it, whaddyou think?

thcdru2k
11-25-02, 12:55 PM
i've been playing it at my friends house, he has a dolby pro logic ii receiver with klipsch speakers, and the sound out of that game is the best i've ever heard. the graphics are pretty good. it is easily a hq game. nintendo sure knows how to make their flagship games. mario/metroid/star fox/zelda. they have that special touch that other game developers just don't have.

ragejg
11-25-02, 01:04 PM
Lemme guess... nintendo never descibed the fx in the game in tech terms... and won't even allow the "flipper chip" specs out...

<i'm checking on the web to see if I can contradict myself>...
<let me know if I'm wasting my time;) )

ragejg
11-25-02, 01:07 PM
ATI Flipper
162 MHz
4 pixel pipelines
1 texel per pixel pipeline
4 texels per clock cycle (4 pixels with 1 texel per pixel)
Maximum of 8 texture layers per rendering pass (done in 8 clock cycles)
650 megapixels per second
650 megatexels per second
Point, Bilinear, Trilinear, Anisotropic Mip-Map Filtering
Perspective-Correct Texture Mapping
Bump Mapping
Environment Mapping
24-bit Z Buffer
S3TC Texture Compression
Subpixel Anti-Aliasing
Geometry and Lighting Engine
33 million polygons per second (peak)
6 million to 12 million polygons per second (with effects)
Hidden Surface Removal (HSR) based on early Z-test
Virtual Texture Design
2MB Embedded Frame Buffer
1MB Embedded Texture Cache
10.4 gigabytes per second texture cache read bandwidth
scene texture data stored in 24MB 1T-SRAM main memory
8.6 GFLOPS

ragejg
11-25-02, 01:24 PM
No pixel/vs shaders?
Dang! Maybe there's other unpublished trick that work around this fact...

nin_fragile14
11-25-02, 01:29 PM
I haven't played it myself, but it's getting the best reviews I've ever seen.

ragejg
11-25-02, 01:39 PM
You'd think controlling movement and direction would be hard with one analog (unlike xbox games' config), but it's not, and once you get used to it, it seems very fluid and intuitive.

Nephilim
11-25-02, 01:57 PM
I freakin love Metroid Prime.

Best FPS game on any console right now. Period.

stncttr908
11-25-02, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Nephilim
I freakin love Metroid Prime.

Best FPS game on any console right now. Period.
Maybe since Halo is a year old...but Metroid is the best GC game that I've played.

St Lobus
11-25-02, 08:08 PM
Metroid Prime has taken up about every spare minute I've had for the last few days. This game is easily one of the best games I've played. The atmosphere, controls, sound...everything is top notch. The graphics are great, hardly any slow down at all, though I did notice a bit when I was fighting quite a few things and trying to morph all at once. I had always been skeptic about a first person metroid, but they pulled it off very well. Ranks up there with the two system shock games in my book, but not nearly as frightening. I don't need new shorts every half hour with Metroid. :)

Matthyahuw
11-25-02, 10:29 PM
Haven't tried MP yet...still diggin into Mario Sunshine, and I never did finish Luigi's Mansion, but I didn't enjoy it like I'm enjoying Mario...maybe I'll pick it up when I'm done with the little Italian guy...

StealthHawk
11-26-02, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
Haven't tried MP yet...still diggin into Mario Sunshine, and I never did finish Luigi's Mansion, but I didn't enjoy it like I'm enjoying Mario...maybe I'll pick it up when I'm done with the little Italian guy...

try to get as many shines as you can before you beat Bowser, otherwise you'll never take the effort to go back and get them, at least that's what happened to me :(

ah well.

ToastGodSupreme
11-30-02, 11:32 PM
Hrm, with those graphics specs on the GC, you wonder how much effort it would take to port the stuff to PC... god how I'd love some of those games on my PC

StealthHawk
12-01-02, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
nintendo sure knows how to make their flagship games. mario/metroid/star fox/zelda. they have that special touch that other game developers just don't have.

you've fallen into the common trap. many of the famous franchises were published by Nintendo, but not created by them. for example, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong Country/64, Star Fox.

even when referencing the GC's flagship games, neither Metroid nor Star Fox were done by Nintendo themselves.

Nintendo gets a lot more credit than it deserves for many of the great games it publishes.

thcdru2k
12-01-02, 01:24 AM
true..but even if it was just mario and zelda, those two games have been the best console gaming experience for me. ocarina of time was just amazing in every aspect. the sense of accomplishment to get those 100 spiders and biggoron sword and every single item in the game :D. and plus an ending that left nothing to be desired. still perhaps best game i've ever played. that and chrono trigger.

nin_fragile14
12-01-02, 01:49 AM
I bought a Gamecube yesterday with Metroid Prime. It's a great game; it's really not a first person shooter, but more of a seamless first person adventure. I haven't found a single thing I don't like about it yet.

Gargr
12-02-02, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
you've fallen into the common trap. many of the famous franchises were published by Nintendo, but not created by them. for example, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong Country/64, Star Fox.

even when referencing the GC's flagship games, neither Metroid nor Star Fox were done by Nintendo themselves.

Nintendo gets a lot more credit than it deserves for many of the great games it publishes.

Are you on crack or something?

From the franchises you mentioned only Golden eye and Perfect Dark arnt created by nintendo. And thats why when MS bought Rare these go with them.

Donkey Kong was created in the 80s by Shigeru Myamoto(SP?) i believe.

Metroid, Mario, Star Fox, Zelda, F-Zero... all are created by nintendo.
Nintendo now lets other devs to make some of their games,so they concentrate on creating new stuff. But still alot of ppl from nintendo are involved in the developing and make most of the important decisions.

exar
12-02-02, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by nin_fragile14
I bought a Gamecube yesterday with Metroid Prime. It's a great game; it's really not a first person shooter, but more of a seamless first person adventure. I haven't found a single thing I don't like about it yet. Same here. I bought a GC just because of the fall/spring lineup...Mario, Metroid, and Zelda. So far, it's 2 for 2 on great games. A lot more game companies need to have their designers playing these games to see how to make games fun and unique. Not just another clone of a popular game.

StealthHawk
12-02-02, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Gargr
Are you on crack or something?

From the franchises you mentioned only Golden eye and Perfect Dark arnt created by nintendo. And thats why when MS bought Rare these go with them.

read more carefully.

Donkey Kong was created in the 80s by Shigeru Myamoto(SP?) i believe.

Donkey Kong Country/64


Metroid, Mario, Star Fox, Zelda, F-Zero... all are created by nintendo.

even when referencing the GC's flagship games, neither Metroid nor Star Fox were done by Nintendo themselves.

all bold sentences were from my post that you quoted. i thought i was being sufficiently clear, but i guess not.

thcdru2k
12-02-02, 11:28 PM
well lets just say nintento had the original ideas and nes/snes games that allowed those GC games to be what as good as they are.

Gargr
12-03-02, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
read more carefully.



Donkey Kong Country/64




even when referencing the GC's flagship games, neither Metroid nor Star Fox were done by Nintendo themselves.

all bold sentences were from my post that you quoted. i thought i was being sufficiently clear, but i guess not.

Woah
read my post again!
You said the franchises were not created by nintendo. Guess what? Donkey Kong = the same kong in Donkey Kong Country/64. The games DKC/64 were developed by a Nintendo 1st party. Nintendo owns the rights frr these franchises cos they created them.

The creators of Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid(Well, hes dead right? s,o its someone else)... are still producers/directors... whatever of these games = nintendo is in controll of the development of these games.

They didnt just publish them as you make it look.

Gargr
12-03-02, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by ragejg
No pixel/vs shaders?
Dang! Maybe there's other unpublished trick that work around this fact...

its called a TEV

Here is a quote from Beyond3D:


The TEV and "pixel shaders" are basically cute acronyms for what used to be called color combiners. The TEV also incorporates the Texture reading part of the pipeline.

A color combiner is in general implemented as a single logic op, in NVidia's case thats public (register combiner docs) and is of the form
A op1 B op2 C op1 D
where op1 is either Dot Product or multiply, op2 is either add or select.
As you can see by repeating this multiple times with some register manipulation between stages you can do most basic math. Pixel shaders just provide a simple consistent interface to this (and other vendors implementations).

The TEV uses a different basic combine operation which is a little more limited. However since the Texture reads can be interleaved with the combiner operations it allows you to do things that would require multipass render on NV2X.

So as an example
on NV2X I have to write


Texture Read
Texture Read
.
.

Combiner Op
Combiner Op
Combiner Op
Combiner Op
.
.
.

On Flipper I can write

Texture Read
Combiner Op
Combiner Op
Texture Read
Combiner Op
Combiner Op
Texture Read
Combiner Op
Combiner Op
.
.
.

I guess the easiest explanation is that Flipper has simpler units for combining and reading textures, but allows more complex arrangements of the units.
So if one of the texture reads is dependant on a previous combiner Op and you can't squeeze the ops into the texture addressing instructions the NV2X would require multipass to do the same thing.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1603

StealthHawk
12-03-02, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Gargr
Woah
read my post again!
You said the franchises were not created by nintendo. Guess what? Donkey Kong = the same kong in Donkey Kong Country/64. The games DKC/64 were developed by a Nintendo 1st party. Nintendo owns the rights frr these franchises cos they created them.

first of all, i never said that Nintendo didn't make the Donkey Kong franchise. but DK more or less fell off the map in the 80s and was revived by DKC in the 90s, and hence i called it its own franchise. but i specifically called it Country/64; there was no implication given that Nintendo didn't create the DK character.

yes, i think we all know that these characters are owned by Nintendo. but a rose by any other name should smell as sweet...

even when referencing the GC's flagship games, neither Metroid nor Star Fox were done by Nintendo themselves.

the implication being that these were franchises under direct Nintendo control beforehand. i don't remember if Rare did Star Fox 64, anyway.

The creators of Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid(Well, hes dead right? s,o its someone else)... are still producers/directors... whatever of these games = nintendo is in controll of the development of these games.

They didnt just publish them as you make it look.

is that a fact? how much creative control did Nintendo give to Rare and the company that made Metroid Prime? i'm of the opinion that Nintendo might have been looming loosely over their shoulders, and had to give the final approval, but i don't think they were that directly involved. could be wrong, of course. comments made by Rare employees seem to indicate that i'm right.

Gargr
12-03-02, 12:19 PM
Do you really think nintendo just gave them the games and said "do whatever you wnat, we dont care" or something like that?? N decides who will make the game. N decides how they will make the game......


Metroid Prime Progress Report
Nintendo's master designer Shigeru Miyamoto fills in the gaps of the situation below:

"What I can tell you about Metroid Prime is that for Nintendo, the development is working pretty well so that we are overseeing the stage of fine tuning and finishing touches. As a matter of fact, we were about to present Metroid Prime to the Space World 2001 show, but it doesn't yet have good enough sound effects, and also I was not fully satisfied with the control. So I decided in the end, just a few days ago, that we should not bring it to the Space World show.

"Instead, I was thinking about showing video footage of Metroid Prime. Actually, the videotape is in my bag. But the guy sitting next to me here said that if we showed the Metroid video, the whole meeting would be occupied with it [laughs]. So he discouraged me to do so. But we are on the right track and we will be ready to launch it within one year from now. The directors are located in the United States and we, as the game producers, are giving suggestions every week on teleconference and face-to-face every month or two."
http://cube.ign.com/articles/097/097689p1.html

See, they dont just publish their games.

I remember a F-Zero interview with Shigeru's TEAM, but i dont have time to look for it. Just go to ign and read.