Germanys Unemployment rate, 12.1%

[Tyr-Sog]

Wow, 5 million unemployed and climbing. I remember reading about his last year and experts from the BBC saying that Germany should have no problem pulling out of this slump. If I remember correctly a year ago it was something like 9%. I thought Germany was the industrial backbone and the bulk of the economy of EU? If so this can't be good news.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4228739.stm

[saturnotaku]

But the United States must look to Europe as a bastion of economic, foreign and domestic policy, our 6% unemployment rate be damned! :eek:

[Rakeesh]

Why do I get the feeling that somebody is gonig to find some way to blame the US for this?

[saturnotaku]

The US isn't buying enough sauerkraut, Heinekin and BMWs. For shame. :nono:

[sytaylor]

Proof socialism doesn't work. I'm glad someone posted this acutally, I wanted to discuss it but forgot :angel3:

The government is trying to reform social security but that's not where the problem is. The problem is a huge legal mess that means there is no such thing as temporary contract work and employee's are at a massive disadvantage. The government is not allowing enterprise to stir its economy, and so long as this is the case it will teeter near a recession. Britain is a glowing example of what allowing enterprise to flourish can do, and espite Blair's red tape the one saving grace of new Lavour is the realisation that not ruining the economy is essential to re-election regardless of your spending goals.

Britain is the powerhouse of Europe, of that there is no question... and then the EU wonders why we don't like new initiatives that spend the money we pour into the EU. I would also be the UK propping up the Euro currency if we were in it, and quite frankly thats just plain unfair. That status quo is benefitting us far greater and the past few years have prooven that.

[Yonkers]

Proof socialism doesn't work. I'm glad someone posted this acutally, I wanted to discuss it but forgot :angel3:

The government is trying to reform social security but that's not where the problem is. The problem is a huge legal mess that means there is no such thing as temporary contract work and employee's are at a massive disadvantage. The government is not allowing enterprise to stir its economy, and so long as this is the case it will teeter near a recession. Britain is a glowing example of what allowing enterprise to flourish can do, and espite Blair's red tape the one saving grace of new Lavour is the realisation that not ruining the economy is essential to re-election regardless of your spending goals.

Britain is the powerhouse of Europe, of that there is no question... and then the EU wonders why we don't like new initiatives that spend the money we pour into the EU. I would also be the UK propping up the Euro currency if we were in it, and quite frankly thats just plain unfair. That status quo is benefitting us far greater and the past few years have prooven that.

Well said.

All I have to say is "ya socialism" :D Hey, at least they all have socialized medicine...wait if no one is working how will they pay for the program? :D

[Rakeesh]

From what I understand france's economy isn't much better than germany's. The two biggest left leaning countries in the world...what irony. BTW, what is the reason that the UK doesn't switch to the euro anyways?

EDIT: Meanwhile the US's economy is well on the rebound:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=anC8GC2x9xA4&refer=us
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/financialpost/investing/story.html?id=c683ff5f-4405-4807-8c85-72cddbc9db74

Seems we've all but recovered from the dot-com collapse.

[Tyr-Sog]

I would think also that with the fall of the wall and the merger of east and west germany put a constriant on the economy. Not only did one half of germnay have to rebuild the other half of Germany, it as a hole had the responsibility of creating more jobs for those who were less infortunate of being on the wrong side of the wall. Maybe Germany is still feeling the after effects.

[Ninjaman09]

Speaking of this, I read a very disturbing article about Germany's policy on unemployment. Apparently, if a job is offered to an unemployed citizen and they've been on unemployment for a year, they are legally required to take it. Prostitution was legalized in Germany several years ago in an effort to reduce organized crime. So if a woman is unemployed for over a year and is offered a job at a brothel offering sexual services, they are legally required to take it! I don't have the article link on hand at the moment but I found this very disturbing. Apparently the issue was brought before the government but it was dismissed as they did not want to treat prostitution as a "special case". So if you're a woman in Germany, you'd better hope you have a job, or you could be working at a *****house. Or be in prison. I wonder which would be worse.

edit: Ah, here's the link:
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jan/05013106.html

[sytaylor]

From what I understand france's economy isn't much better than germany's. The two biggest left leaning countries in the world...what irony. BTW, what is the reason that the UK doesn't switch to the euro anyways?

The governments answer is that they have "5 economic tests for prosperity and stability that the Euro must qualify to and past"... The real answer is that the people would revolt and know full well that we put more in to the EU than we get out... it just works out worthwhile in the end because of the trading benefits. Joining the Euro would mean interest rates paid on mortgages are set based on how the European economy is doing. Which means regardless of how strong britains housing market is, it could end up steaming towards a crash because the interest rates are so low, to dig Europe out of recession.

Britain right now has a strong economy because its house price boom allowed consumers to borrow and spend to their potential capacity. The consumer driven market and rising house prices dug britain out of its recession. If we were in the Euro we simply could not have done it.

[Holy Smoke]

Proof socialism doesn't work. I'm glad someone posted this acutally, I wanted to discuss it but forgot :angel3:
Not really. That's just one case, which for all we know is just temporary (albeit long). Similar forms of "mixed-mode socialism" are doing quite well in northern Europe, thankyouverymuch.

[superklye]

The governments answer is that they have "5 economic tests for prosperity and stability that the Euro must qualify to and past"... The real answer is that the people would revolt and know full well that we put more in to the EU than we get out... it just works out worthwhile in the end because of the trading benefits. Joining the Euro would mean interest rates paid on mortgages are set based on how the European economy is doing. Which means regardless of how strong britains housing market is, it could end up steaming towards a crash because the interest rates are so low, to dig Europe out of recession.

Britain right now has a strong economy because its house price boom allowed consumers to borrow and spend to their potential capacity. The consumer driven market and rising house prices dug britain out of its recession. If we were in the Euro we simply could not have done it.
Now...I heard recently that Britain was going to be joing the Euro relatively soon...is that the case or are you guys still holding on with the pound? I really believe, like you say the gov't does, that joining the Euro would be the worst idea. The pound is the strongest/most valuable currency in the world and losing that just seems so stupid to me.

[sytaylor]

Now...I heard recently that Britain was going to be joing the Euro relatively soon...is that the case or are you guys still holding on with the pound? I really believe, like you say the gov't does, that joining the Euro would be the worst idea. The pound is the strongest/most valuable currency in the world and losing that just seems so stupid to me.

... and despite that our exports don't do that badly either.

Not really. That's just one case, which for all we know is just temporary (albeit long). Similar forms of "mixed-mode socialism" are doing quite well in northern Europe, thankyouverymuch.

Norther European countries are more large groups of people than nations :p. Seriously you guys don't shoulder anywhere near he international burden some of the more major nations do for the world... Slipping under the radar has its advanatages, but those nations will never contribute to the world like the major industrial nations.

[sytaylor]

Now...I heard recently that Britain was going to be joing the Euro relatively soon...is that the case or are you guys still holding on with the pound? I really believe, like you say the gov't does, that joining the Euro would be the worst idea. The pound is the strongest/most valuable currency in the world and losing that just seems so stupid to me.


Europe has been pushing us to join it, France especially... they all want us in it because of the massive boost we'd give it. I'd certainly say its not imminent though, we've got a general election to get past, then a refferedum on the EU constitution... then by 2007 we might have movement on the Euro. I'd love to see a Tory government get in and say "Oi, federalists, NO! This is a trading union, not a platform to further your agenda to wipe out nation states in order to "counter" the USA"....

[Vagrant Zero]

I thought Germany was the econimic powerhouse of western europe? Weren't they like the 5th largest economy in the world at one point?

[Holy Smoke]

Norther European countries are more large groups of people than nations :p. Seriously you guys don't shoulder anywhere near he international burden some of the more major nations do for the world... Slipping under the radar has its advanatages, but those nations will never contribute to the world like the major industrial nations.For that I shall fart in your general direction.

[/national pride]

It does, however, prove that "socialism" can work. Sure, it's not ideal for becoming an economical powerhouse, but if it increases overall happiness, who cares?

[Yonkers]

For that I shall fart in your general direction.

[/national pride]

It does, however, prove that "socialism" can work. Sure, it's not ideal for becoming an economical powerhouse, but if it increases overall happiness, who cares?
This is one of the silliest defences of socialism I have seen to date. :D


Otto and Klaus standing in line one day

Otto: Gee life sure is gut isn't it Klaus?

Klaus: Ya, gut. Much better than those capitalist pigs in the US.

Otto: Ya, poor misrable bastards.

Government food line worker: Here's your potato...


BAHAHAAHAHAA!!!!!1

[Holy Smoke]

This is one of the silliest defences of socialism I have seen to date. :D


Otto and Klaus standing in line one day

Otto: Gee life sure is gut isn't it Klaus?

Klaus: Ya, gut. Much better than those capitalist pigs in the US.

Otto: Ya, poor misrable bastards.

Government food line worker: Here's your potato...


BAHAHAAHAHAA!!!!!1You've never been to these countries, have you? There are many variations of socialism... including ones that support free trade, which is the building block of western economies.

[Yonkers]

LOL No I haven't and I also have not intrest in visiting them. How would visiting a country with 12% unemployment help me understand socialism? You are trying to make the point that I am clueless but what you are really doing is dodging the whole issue by changing the subject.

The point is socialism is inferior to capitalism and always will be. Why this bothers you is beyond me. More over the job satisfaction rate in the US blows away countries like France and German. This satisfaction also translate in to production and over all satisfaction of life.

Now back to your major point. Yes I understand there are not goverment food lines. My skit was a PARODY. It was a joke that uses the obsurd to make a point. I thought most here would have understood this.

[Holy Smoke]

I'm not talking about Germany or France. I'm talking about the other northern European countries that do not have said problems, yet share similar economic policies. They're doing perfectly fine, and thus negate the aforementioned "proof against socialism".

Edit: I also have no problem with capitalism being superior to socialism. That's an economical fact. My point was that economical superiority isn't the only important factor, as long as the economy is strong enough.

[Rakeesh]

I'm not talking about Germany or France. I'm talking about the other northern European countries that do not have said problems, yet share similar economic policies. They're doing perfectly fine, and thus negate the aforementioned "proof against socialism".

Edit: I also have no problem with capitalism being superior to socialism. That's an economical fact. My point was that economical superiority isn't the only important factor, as long as the economy is strong enough.

The thing is though, in all socialist countries the GDP is generally on a constant downward slope. Eventually the strength of the economy diminishes to a point where it can no longer sustain itself.

[Ninja Prime]

Interestingly enough, this rate is after they introduced all their socialist/commie work rules designed to give more jobs by making less work per person.

[Sazar]

german unemployed still get a hell of a lot of benefits... same goes for many other european nations...

wrt their educational system... the whole trade school setup from an early age does not help when it comes to skill and diversity but it definitely aids their expertise in fields they have spent much time in developing their know-how..

wrt england and the EU... it is unlikely anytime soon due to the economic impact of losing london as the financial capital of europe one the pound is no longer a major trading currency...

either paris or another city will take over as the financial capital with london dropping down in importance (though not completely from the map)

this in itself is likely to stop the brits from joining the EU anytime soon...

turkey will likely be the next one in, unless france finds a new reason to keep em out and creates more of a stink..

[Rakeesh]

german unemployed still get a hell of a lot of benefits...

That is not a good thing. Why would some people want to get a job if unemployment benefits make not having a job so bad? IMO striving to give good unemployment benefits is bad for everybody involved.

wrt england and the EU... it is unlikely anytime soon due to the economic impact of losing london as the financial capital of europe one the pound is no longer a major trading currency...

either paris or another city will take over as the financial capital with london dropping down in importance (though not completely from the map)

From the sound of things England is far better off than the rest of europe, why would this happen?

[sytaylor]

either paris or another city will take over as the financial capital with london dropping down in importance (though not completely from the map)

Sorry but no way... London is the fastest growing city in Europe and is absolutley steaming ahead of the competition... no city in the UK gets close (although percentage wise Leeds is almost doing as well ^^).