Is it worth the money? (TI4200 vs. FX5200)

[Mehbody]

I'll start from the beginning.. I bought a FX5200 to replace my aging MX420 that had served me since i had it (before that, a Voodoo 5 and a TNT2) but to my despair (but it was cheap on ebay :P) it is 64-bit and that is really killing everything, I think (very low 3dmark score, bad FPS in Unreal Tournament (GOTY).. at lowest settings!) I was only able to nab about 3000 3dmarks in 2001 (don't get me started on 2003/2005..) and the fps is highly unplayable on the large maps i usually play (the MX420 was slightly faster at UT, just enough for it to play good..). Halo is OK, I have gotten used to the low-low settings and 5 (large maps) to 20 (small maps) FPS.. but I like smooth, and this is slideshow-ish.

So, i just bought a Visiontek Ti4200 from eBay, thankfully 128-bit this time. Should I be looking forward to a improvement in my framerates/3dmarks? Or will this card just completly screw me again?

Heh, maybe even a small improvement in HL2? (Very CPU limited, I think, as I only get 4-7fps with the FX5200 or the Voodoo 5 (people have hit good framerates with it.) Or memory limited?)

(If i don't see an improvement, well, a secondary box is always good to have, and my other system could probably use a TI4200..)

[cooliscool]

Oh yes. The Ti4200 is much faster than the FX 5200, 128-bit or otherwise.

Depending on your CPU and Memory, expect around 14,000ish 3DMarks in 2001 with that thing overclocked. I got 14,321 when I had a Ti4200 with my current P4 3.2C @ 3.66 with the card @ 300/590 (core/mem MHz).

In short - hell yes, expect much better FPS in everything.

edit: I see you have a Duron @ 1.2GHz? Expect huge improvement, but not 14,000 3DMarks. :) Look for a better CPU to go with that card if possible..

[[AK]Zip]

I would have to say you will see some improvement, but very little. Your cpu is REALLY hold you back and your memory isn't far behind. Its being PC2100 isn't too bad, but only having 256mb of it is whats geting you more. The main thing is still your Duron @ 1.3GHz. I am still interested on how much it will help you, but I am sceptical and I believe that if you plan on playing any sort of 3D games its time for an upgrade way over due. ;)

-Alex-

[ragejg]

A 266 fsb Athlon derived processor @ 1.3 ghz isn't really that bad of a thing provided you saddle it with more memory. Your rig will love the ti4200... expect 10k in 3dmark 20001, and good playability of ut2k3 @ 10x7, no aa/af.

From late 2k2 to spring 2k3 my specs matched yours pretty much, and I enjoyed Battlefield 1942, UT GOTY, Ghost Recon, Serious Sam: Second Encounter and Max Payne just fine...

At LEAST find a 128mb stick somewhere.... just 256 does not cut it anymore... and your rig won't really OC, will it...

[Mehbody]

Ah, thanks for the speedy replies on this! Yeah, this cpu and mobo are in a definate need of upgrading, and the 256mb is temporary. I had 768mb in here at a time, but the stick of 512 was causing stability issues (it wasn't fun playing games in 10-minute shift!) so I took it out.. I think a good stick of 256mb from Newegg will be enough to get this working much better. I am also looking at a Nforce2/Sempron combo, although this probably isn't the right topic to discuss it in. Say I ordered this combo (I'm tight when it's comes to a budget), how much more improvement would I be seeing now.

Perhaps i'll borrow a friend's old 5900 ultra for the weekend, just to get _some_ gaming in. Playing halo right now, it seems tedious because of the speed but it's playable.

And cooliscool, it's a 1.3ghz. But the setting is weird. 99.4x13.0 There's gotta be a way to get that changed.

The TI4200 has just a stock Visiontek fan, circular. (see auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5174089434)) What kind of speeds could I be looking at? I can't tell my current temps of the case, but i'm sure they can't be that high (hard drive usually stays around 29c (doesn't seem right?), onboard temps are stuck at 22c) and there's good airflow in my case (2 psu fans, 2 intake and 2 outtake)

quick edit: I'll post some timedemo/benchmark results of before and after I get the card in, to see how much it improved the system (for the people that are wondering)

[ragejg]

O_0

Umm, it's a Morgan core... crap... not all of those even make it to 133/266fsb, I forgot about that... I'd have to advise that you ditch that off to someone for $25 and find a tbredB 1700 at least for $30 or so...

Umm, and after looking at things, your ATI chipset mobo... umm, maybe bundle that with your Duron and ditch it as well? There's absolutely no sense in upgrading it... it'd be like putting an XP3200+ into a KT133 mobo. I'd say $20-$25.

Then go to newegg and go to the refurb section and throw down for at least a KT333 mobo. So if you had a 1700 and an overclockable KT333, THEN you'd be primed for serious improvements. You might be able to get 166-200 fsb, 1.9-2.4ghz out of it, and then your ti4200 woul dlove you even more... and heck, at those speeds, even a 6800 series card wouldn't complain too much. ;)

[ragejg]

Here's a link to a thread I put up when I mistakenly recieved a 64 bit memory equipped FX5200... It was beat up on by a GF2ti, and was thoroughly schooled by my previous ti4200 @ 310/585. Most of the numbers I included are fillrate numbers, but thers some 3dmark01 info in ther as well. This was done on an XP2000+ and a tBird 1.33.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10660&highlight=tooth+nail+shades

[Mehbody]

Yup, the FX5200 is just too crippled for 64-bit. Those scores were about the same scores I achived. Should try comparing it to my old Geforce 256 (in my K6-2 box) and see what happens.. Probably the only thing it can beat (excluding MX) :D

[ragejg]

Well, a 64 bit 5200 is about equal to a 128 bit GF2ti and GF4 MX440 in performance... it definitely kills any GF2MX (except the RARE 128 bit memory equipped ones)... definitely a card for a "gramma pc", or a rig that only plays games like Serious Sam, Unreal1 and Quake3...

[Gator]

FX5600 is on par with GF3TI performance

so that should give you an idea of just how much more powerful a GF4TI is over the FX5200 64bit. Yes it's an excellent upgrade decision.

Check some 3dmark2k1 number's, it's good measure of DX8 raw gaming performance. You'll see that a GF4TI is definetly better.

[Daneel Olivaw]

Btw. Halo will not run much better. But all other games will benefit extremely. And a 5900 is not much faster than a GF4Ti (I had both, trust me (the speed advantage is only in AA and AF)), especially with such a cpu bottleneck as yours.

[Mehbody]

Btw. Halo will not run much better. But all other games will benefit extremely. And a 5900 is not much faster than a GF4Ti (I had both, trust me (the speed advantage is only in AA and AF)), especially with such a cpu bottleneck as yours.

Sadly and oddly, I've gotten used to the 10fps I achive in Halo, so it's no big deal. It's mainly UT and UT2003 i'm more worried about speed-wise, because I'm a lot better in Unreal then halo :D

[john19055]

You should see a improvement with that TI4200 because it will be faster than the FX5200 you had.

[Daneel Olivaw]

All UTs love the GF4Tis... and Atlhon based cpus.

[MustangSVT]

Yes, expect a big improvement with that Ti4200.

On my old setup, I had a KT266A paired with a T-Bred 2400+ @ 2.1GHz, 512MB PC2100 and Ti4200 128mb at 280/550. With that, I would get around high 10k's in 3d01, or just barely 11k I think.

Halo ran fine on that rig. 800x600, all settings on/highest with specular off, I would get 50fps most of the time (average around 45-50fps).

UT2004 at 800x600 with medium also ran around 60fps.

Also, there's no 64-bit GF4 Ti's, not as far as I know. What you should do with your setup is get another stick of 256MB PC2100 if you can, grab a cheap nforce2 if you can (like shuttle an35n ultra), and get a second hand xp-m 2400+/2500+ for like $50. You'd prolly get like 2.4ghz out of that with a 266-280fsb so you run your memory 1:1 sync. That would be a huge improvement.

[Mehbody]

Taking your advice with the Shuttle and XP-M (along with a nice fan, more AS5, and a stick on PC2100 256mb) my total on Newegg was USD$163.78. Not bad at all, better then my other estimates, so I'll think about ordering it once I see how well the TI4200 performs.

I did most of the comparsion benchmarking today, for the FX5200 vs. TI4200, fresh install of XP, all standard timedemos (UT2003, Halo, CoD, Quake 3, Quake 2, and UT/Deus Ex when I find those discs..) so I hope the Ti4200 improves these greatly.

I did find something odd though.. in the DM-Antalus map on UT2003, during the flyby, i noticed many textures flashing, and with 3dmark2001, the dragothic high also showed textures flashing. Aren't those signs of a high overclock? I'm still running stock speeds, and the airflow is the same.. could it just be a driver problem? (DHzer0point/71.48)

[MustangSVT]

You should really use older drivers with a card like Ti4200. Try using the 56.72 set and see how it works out for you.

For games like BF1942, UT2003 (pre-2003/non-dx9), the best drivers would be something like 44.03 (or something like that, 44.67 I think). But for games like Halo, UT2004, BFV, PoP, (any newer game from 2003 and on), 56.72 is best.

[Mehbody]

You should really use older drivers with a card like Ti4200. Try using the 56.72 set and see how it works out for you.

For games like BF1942, UT2003 (pre-2003/non-dx9), the best drivers would be something like 44.03 (or something like that, 44.67 I think). But for games like Halo, UT2004, BFV, PoP, (any newer game from 2003 and on), 56.72 is best.

I'm still using my FX5200. My Ti4200 should be coming in later this week/next week (UPS ground shipping, plus a paypal echeck.. :thumbdwn: ) Older drivers like the 44.03, 56.72, etc. are worse then these drivers (very few FPS difference), except with the flickering which is exactly the same (and in about the same frames, as far as i can tell)

So far i've benchmarked the FX5200 with Halo, Quake 3, Quake 2, CoD, Half-Life 2, UT2003, and 3dmark2001. I might consider getting some quick free hosting and put this Word file up as a HTML file. It could be interesting just to look at and compare...

EDIT: Set up a quick site with the FX5200's current benchmark result. http://thor.prohosting.com/mehbody7/benchmar1.htm
2nd EDIT: Note that all the benchmarks for the Ti4200 haven't been run yet, as I don't have the card in my hands right now.

[JoKeRr]

man, even my Ti500 smokes 10k in 3dmark01, hahah, guess I'm still a long way from upgrading.

[Daneel Olivaw]

That's because 3dm2k1 is a bit more CPU bound with those cards. (stating the obvious is my strong point)

[JoKeRr]

That's because 3dm2k1 is a bit more CPU bound with those cards. (stating the obvious is my strong point)

i thoghout u died at 900 post, why did u come back from hell? or heaven??

[Daneel Olivaw]

i thoghout u died at 900 post, why did u come back from hell? or heaven??
I corrected my sig accordingly.

[JoKeRr]

That's because 3dm2k1 is a bit more CPU bound with those cards. (stating the obvious is my strong point)

but his 3dmark01 score was still really low. My Ti500 paired with a Tulatin Celeron 1.1Aghz, scored over 5k. His duron should be faster than a cely 1.1A

[Daneel Olivaw]

Note that all the benchmarks for the Ti4200 haven't been run yet, as I don't have the card in my hands right now. JoKeRr: we don't have his benchmarks yet, so why do you say that?

My Ti4200 64Mb (315/585) scores 9016 3dmarks01 on my Tually Celeron@ 1.612GHz

[JoKeRr]

JoKeRr: we don't have his benchmarks yet, so why do you say that?

My Ti4200 64Mb (315/585) scores 9016 3dmarks01 on my Tually Celeron@ 1.612GHz

i was refering to his FX5200.