Enduring Freedom "The Opening Chapter"

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Well, I don't want to start a political debate or anything, because, well, heh, we all know how those turn out.:rolleyes: Anyways, check out this video (http://mcrsc.mfr.usmc.mil/usmc-hq/video/ef.asf). It has been playing before movies in theaters across the nation since Thanksgiving. What I want to know is, WHERE IS THE FREAKING ARMY IN THIS VIDEO!!!:p No, not really, but what I wanna know is, without starting a political debate over wether or not we should attack Iraq or anything, what do you guys think of the United States military? in how prepared and well equipped the US Armed Forces is? and do you guys think that if push comes to shove, would the US military be victorious? How do you guys rank it in quality and potency against the other militaries around the world.;) And for us Yanks, heck, and everyone else, who do you think is the best? Green Berets, Rangers, Seals, AF Spec Ops, or Force Recon? :D Past that, what do you guys think of SAS and Delta?

EDIT: Just imagine how much better of a name "Infinite Justice" would have been instead of "Enduring Freedom".:p

[UDawg]

Well, as a proud American I am of course going to say our military is the tops. Nobody at this point in time alone can touch us. That is not to say any war would be easy or costly but never under estimate the American spirit! There isnt' a navy fleet in the world that comes close to ours and that mean deploying troops around the world at will. As far as Special Operation units, hmm that is tough since they all depend on each other to do thier jobs effectively. SAS surely is the oldest and most experienced and I think has the best intelegence. I would have to pick SAS, Delta force and DEVGRU as the tops in the world and not in that prticular order. Don't forget what the SEALs did in Vietnam. The green ghost struck fear in the hearts of Charley, as the SEALs say "we won our Vietnam". I am very partial to the SEALs but heck I sure hope we will never have to find out who is the best. I am just glad they are all on our side. :D


Just for the record because I know someone will bring this up.
The mission in Mogadishu was not a failure. We did seize high-ranking members of Mohamed Farrah Aidid's clan. which is what the target was. The planning for Task Force Ranger by it's superiors was faulty from the beginning. Our brothers fought out of a hopeless situation with only 18 who fell, compared to the nearly one thousand dead or wounded Moges. It was stupid to attack in the middle of High time when the skinnies were blitzed out of thier minds. :mad:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by UDawg71
Just for the record because I know someone will bring this up.
The mission in Mogadishu was not a failure. We did seize high-ranking members of Mohamed Farrah Aidid's clan. which is what the target was. The planning for Task Force Ranger by it's superiors was faulty from the beginning. Our brothers fought out of a hopeless situation with only 18 who fell, compared to the nearly one thousand dead or wounded Moges. It was stupid to attack in the middle of High time when the skinnies were blitzed out of thier minds. :mad:

Well, it was a peace keeping mission put together partly by the UN, and you know how great they are.:rolleyes: They did a hell of a job getting them out though. Do you remember the Seals coming ashore near Mogadishu only to be greeted by bright lights and a news crew? heh, man, that guy looked pissed.;) "uh no, I was just scuba diving and I lost my tanks, so did my buddies back there":p

[UDawg]

LOL ya. I was jumping up and down mad when I saw that. Did you also know that The SEALs also swam through raw sewage to get to shore, a few of them got really sick from it. I'm not sure if they were the same ones who were met by the media but ewww any way. It was also the SEALs who stage a false attack on Kuwait city to draw the Iraqis to Kuwait then the SEALs retreated and bammmm!!! baby We cut them in two.
:D Oh and by the way the code word for attack when the land war in Iraq began was "Get some"!!! That is way cool.

Here is a page with special forces pictures in action.

http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend/albums.php

[LORD-eX-Bu]

awesome! Thanks! I'm definately bookmarking that site.:D

[t6_shadow]

"Just for the record because I know someone will bring this up.
The mission in Mogadishu was not a failure. We did seize high-ranking members of Mohamed Farrah Aidid's clan. which is what the target was. The planning for Task Force Ranger by it's superiors was faulty from the beginning. Our brothers fought out of a hopeless situation with only 18 who fell, compared to the nearly one thousand dead or wounded Moges. It was stupid to attack in the middle of High time when the skinnies were blitzed out of thier minds. "


Your right about the missions being a succes but the US lost 19 men in total. However the somilias lost around 3,000. They claimed only 1,000 but when the red cross entered the country the number of dead they found (that has died from combat) exceeded 3000. teacher them right to mess with the US. They got what they deserved.

Guy standing on the street = civilian
Guy standing on the street holding ak-47 = Enemy soldier

[StealthHawk]

does our military strength compared to other nation's (armies) really matter in who wins the war? Vietnam taught us one thing, and that's the better armed and trained troops don't always win in a war that is fought unconventionally.

with saying that, i do believe we would smash any country in a traditional war. it's just those poor countries, you can "bomb them back to the stone age" and they can keep fighting effectively. mostly because they were pretty close to the stone age technology wise from the beginning :p

in other words, an opponent who relies on technology can't stand up to the US.

[vampireuk]

wheeee I heard the SAS :D

in other words, an opponent who relies on technology can't stand up to the US

In that case Britain at the moment could whoop you guys so bad ;)

With our tin helmets, boots that melt over 40 degrees and rifles that have the effectiveness of a spud gun.:rolleyes:

[Mod]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
in how prepared and well equipped the US Armed Forces is? and do you guys think that if push comes to shove, would the US military be victorious?

I think US Armed Forces is the first over-prepared army in History. What I mean is: I think it already has technology to squash like flies even tricky enemies like vietcongs, but it lacks support of people from inteligence. They forgot how important is to infiltrate people among the enemy instead of just relying on bombs, satelite photos, supercomputer monitoring , among other high advanced technology.

BTW, this is a big problem for US government who thinks will be protected from terrorists by wiretaping and supercomputer monitoring. Those guys have all sorts of tricks to comunicate, not only using phones or e-mail.

PS.: ( This makes me wonder how did US top man are concerning with the really dangerous guys of al Qaeda. I just see them concerning of bombing Iraq, who doesn't shows any real signs of atacking US, even if they have something that COULD threat US.).

[t6_shadow]

oh I forgot to say the US military is the best in the world. Bar none.

"I think US Armed Forces is the first over-prepared army in History. What I mean is: I think it already has technology to squash like flies even tricky enemies like vietcongs, but it lacks support of people from inteligence. They forgot how important is to infiltrate people among the enemy instead of just relying on bombs, satelite photos, supercomputer monitoring , among other high advanced technology.

BTW, this is a big problem for US government who thinks will be protected from terrorists by wiretaping and supercomputer monitoring. Those guys have all sorts of tricks to comunicate, not only using phones or e-mail."


By saying this you obviously have no idea of military intelligence at all. Secondly much like their military the US has the best spy force in the world second only to the russian DURING the cold war which is now over.

Its impossible to infiltrate to certain many terrorist organizations. First off they are mostly made up of family members. Secondly its hard for a white man to get int o a terrorist cell. "Um excuse me guys my name is ackbar and I would like to join your terrorist clan." Plus there is the whole having to speak their language PERFECTLY without any trace of accent whatsoever.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Mod
I think US Armed Forces is the first over-prepared army in History. What I mean is: I think it already has technology to squash like flies even tricky enemies like vietcongs, but it lacks support of people from inteligence. They forgot how important is to infiltrate people among the enemy instead of just relying on bombs, satelite photos, supercomputer monitoring , among other high advanced technology.

BTW, this is a big problem for US government who thinks will be protected from terrorists by wiretaping and supercomputer monitoring. Those guys have all sorts of tricks to comunicate, not only using phones or e-mail.

PS.: ( This makes me wonder how did US top man are concerning with the really dangerous guys of al Qaeda. I just see them concerning of bombing Iraq, who doesn't shows any real signs of atacking US, even if they have something that COULD threat US.).

I complete agree with you. That is why I gave the SAS the nod over all the other SF in the world, not that they are the toughest or the best trained but that they have the best inteligence network. It makes me so mad the way our congress sticks its fat nose in the way of the inteligence community. If they would get out of the way of the CIA and other forms of inteligence gathering we would have a lot less of these terrorist attacks.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by t6_shadow

By saying this you obviously have no idea of military intelligence at all. Secondly much like their military the US has the best spy force in the world second only to the russian DURING the cold war which is now over.

Its impossible to infiltrate to certain many terrorist organizations. First off they are mostly made up of family members. Secondly its hard for a white man to get int o a terrorist cell. "Um excuse me guys my name is ackbar and I would like to join your terrorist clan." Plus there is the whole having to speak their language PERFECTLY without any trace of accent whatsoever.

I also agree with you. hehe two in a row for me :D
My point is our inteligence is hindered by congress and it's lack of funding the limits they put on the CIA, SF ect. There used to be a time when our inteligence network was strong but now since inteligence gathering has gotten political it has really compremised our ability to gather it. Our boys deserve soooo much more when they go into battle

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Its impossible to infiltrate to certain many terrorist organizations. First off they are mostly made up of family members. Secondly its hard for a white man to get int o a terrorist cell. "Um excuse me guys my name is ackbar and I would like to join your terrorist clan." Plus there is the whole having to speak their language PERFECTLY without any trace of accent whatsoever.
the US doesn't only employ white men :rolleyes: you recruit people for special jobs, people who grew up in the area and/or speak the language well and have the same ethnicity as those who you are trying to infiltrate.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Mod
BTW, this is a big problem for US government who thinks will be protected from terrorists by wiretaping and supercomputer monitoring. Those guys have all sorts of tricks to comunicate, not only using phones or e-mail.

on the contrary, that is exactly how we knew Bin Laden was in afghanistan, we tracked his communications.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by vampireuk
wheeee I heard the SAS :D



In that case Britain at the moment could whoop you guys so bad ;)

With our tin helmets, boots that melt over 40 degrees and rifles that have the effectiveness of a spud gun.:rolleyes:
a

I don't know how you could talk about the top SF groups and not mention the SAS after all 1st special forces was modeled after them and navy special warfare group.

[The Baron]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
oh I forgot to say the US military is the best in the world. Bar none.

well... duh. we certainly spend enough money on it.

My point is our inteligence is hindered by congress and it's lack of funding the limits they put on the CIA, SF ect. There used to be a time when our inteligence network was strong but now since inteligence gathering has gotten political it has really compremised our ability to gather it. Our boys deserve soooo much more when they go into battle

BS. All our intelligence networks were geared towards fighting one group--the SOVIETS! Terrorists are a whole 'nother game than the Soviet Union--fanatical loyalty that was rare at best in the USSR is present everywhere in modern terrorist cells. If you're gonna blow yourself up for a cause, you're a fanatic. Don't blame politics for the CIA's ineptitude at realizing that Russia is no longer the most serious threat and retooling its operations towards fighting terrorists.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
well... duh. we certainly spend enough money on it.



BS. All our intelligence networks were geared towards fighting one group--the SOVIETS! Terrorists are a whole 'nother game than the Soviet Union--fanatical loyalty that was rare at best in the USSR is present everywhere in modern terrorist cells. If you're gonna blow yourself up for a cause, you're a fanatic. Don't blame politics for the CIA's ineptitude at realizing that Russia is no longer the most serious threat and retooling its operations towards fighting terrorists.

Then you haven't been following politics or the inteligence community. Agents the last 8 years have been practicing low risk ops, meaning they wont stick their necks out that far because the information isnt going to be used. It was a sad cycle that lead to the CIA, FBI and others to depend on them selves. The Clinton administration and the Democrats have been and want to dismantle the CIA. They have been weakening them for the last 8 years. It is true that we were behind on retooling from the cold war years but you havent a clue if you think politics had nothing to do with it.

[Mod]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
the US doesn't only employ white men :rolleyes: you recruit people for special jobs, people who grew up in the area and/or speak the language well and have the same ethnicity as those who you are trying to infiltrate.

Yeah, the British used to do that in their colonies. I watched a documentary that they used an Indian to measure roads that leaded to Nepal, so that they could invade it .

[Mod]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
on the contrary, that is exactly how we knew Bin Laden was in afghanistan, we tracked his communications.

Yeah ! Sure ! :) But I think I wasn't clear, because I meant wiretaping for protection. In the case of Bin Laden it was used for striking back Bin Laden, besides they were looking for some very specific information, about an attack that has already happened...

Well, in theory, these technologies can be used for protection. Maybe, all they will do is violation of civilian rights, because a terrorist attack can be done in a great variety of ways, so the agents will be looking for vague informations. Then, in order to make sure nothing is wrong, many innocent people will have to be investigated, mainly from forein minorities.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
Don't blame politics for the CIA's ineptitude at realizing that Russia is no longer the most serious threat and retooling its operations towards fighting terrorists.

Have to disagree with you there bud.;) In late 90's, George Tenet(head of the CIA), declared war on Al Qaeda. But because his position, head of the CIA, had been weakened so much over the course of Clinton's administration, many under Tenet didn't even know of his plans or declaration. So his war with Al Qaeda never took off. Thats part of the reason why the CIA was not able to do its job effectively until now.:D But then agian, even when they do their job, its not like anybody in the government or in the current administration is listening anymore.:mad:

[Blakhart]

Who dares wins.
Not that I do not want Rick Marcinko for prez....