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jAkUp
04-02-05, 11:27 AM
I thought this was a good read.. it shows the visual difference between SM1.1 and 3.0, also has the FPS difference between them including x800 vs 6800 benchmarks :)

The x800 cards support parralax mapping? I thought this was an SM3.0 feature like displacement mapping?

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/splinter_cell_chaos_theory_1/default.asp

jolle
04-02-05, 12:04 PM
Parallax is like Virtual Displacement mapping pretty much, doesnt deform any geometry like real Disp Maps does.
Works on all DX9 generation hardware.

SH64
04-02-05, 12:36 PM
Yep Parallax Mapping is supported by all DX9.0 hardware ... IIRC ATi Radeon 9500+ should support it .
Thats a good read but too bad they didnt include the SLI performance .
although the X850XT/XT-PE are the winners in the performance , i'd pick the extra IQ features over the better performance anyday (i.e i would take 1280x1024,8xAF with VDM,HQSS,HDR over 1600x1200,2xAA,8xAF)

anyway i dont have to worry about this either since i'm running SLI which should be faster even with all those features enabled :)

jAkUp
04-02-05, 12:38 PM
yes I would without a doubt take the extra SM3.0 goodies instead of an extra 5fps. HDR is beautiful in this game.

fivefeet8
04-02-05, 01:27 PM
Seems they disabled hardware shadow mapping on Nvidia cards. Kinda strange since it would increase performance by 3-5 fps.

jAkUp
04-02-05, 01:45 PM
Yes they said the reason it was disabled is because the X800 cards would not work correctly with it.

jolle
04-02-05, 01:45 PM
Seems they disabled hardware shadow mapping on Nvidia cards. Kinda strange since it would increase performance by 3-5 fps.
They said they did that cause they couldnt enable it on the ATi cards, to make the comparision more fair..
That would be a valid move if its supposed to work on ATi cards, which it should I guess..

fivefeet8
04-02-05, 02:03 PM
Yes they said the reason it was disabled is because the X800 cards would not work correctly with it.

It doesn't work at all on X800 cards. The option is greyed out. Still, that's a problem with the hardware or drivers, not the game.

SH64
04-02-05, 02:07 PM
ATi cards does not support HSM , but in any case that sounds fair to me since SM2.0 was not implemented for ATi cards . tit for tat :D

fivefeet8
04-02-05, 02:09 PM
They said they did that cause they couldnt enable it on the ATi cards, to make the comparision more fair..
That would be a valid move if its supposed to work on ATi cards, which it should I guess..

I'm not sure it will work on ATi cards. Would be nice to get some type of confirmation from ATi or Ubi if it will work in the future. But right now, we don't know either way. The demo stated that hardware shadow mapping isn't supported in ATi cards. That might have changed for the retail version, but it could also be a missprint.

If it's suppose to work on ATi cards in the future, then disabling it now may be fine. But if it's never going to work on ATi cards, then.... Also, who with an Nv4x card is going to disable hardware shadow mapping when playing? Benchmarks should mirror what options a user would use right now, not try to make it more fair because of hardware/software limitations on another card.

The days of "fairness" in most performance comparisons are jaded at best nowadays anyways.

SH64
04-02-05, 02:18 PM
The days of "fairness" in most performance comparisons are jaded at best nowadays anyways.

if you want to look at fairness , then the whole idea of benchmarking a X850XT-PE to a 6800Ultra is not fair .. since the X850XT-PE is a refresh product & in higher price point than the 6800Ultra ;)

JoKeRr
04-02-05, 03:16 PM
wonder if 76.xx driver would give the performance a nitro-boost.

fivefeet8
04-02-05, 06:21 PM
if you want to look at fairness , then the whole idea of benchmarking a X850XT-PE to a 6800Ultra is not fair .. since the X850XT-PE is a refresh product & in higher price point than the 6800Ultra ;)

Not to mention the fact that the game itself is already an unfair generalized comparative measuring tool. ;) The review sorta generalizes in it's conclusion which is a bit shaky. The review specifically shows that the x850xt was faster than all cards running in SM1.1 mode with HSM disabled on nvidia cards. There is no easy way to compare general performance in this game.

No one with an Nv4x card is going to play in the SM1.1 mode or with HSM disabled. Unless they like lower performance.

OWA
04-02-05, 07:42 PM
This is what the readme says:

Q: "Hardware Shadow Mapping" in advanced graphics settings is grayed out and I can't enable it.

A: Hardware Shadow Mapping is supported only on GeForce and Radeon 9500+ cards if you have the latest drivers installed. Hardware Shadow Mapping increases only the rendering performance and has no direct impact on the visual quality of the game.

SH64
04-02-05, 07:56 PM
This is what the readme says:

Q: "Hardware Shadow Mapping" in advanced graphics settings is grayed out and I can't enable it.

A: Hardware Shadow Mapping is supported only on GeForce and Radeon 9500+ cards if you have the latest drivers installed. Hardware Shadow Mapping increases only the rendering performance and has no direct impact on the visual quality of the game.

While in the official demo , the readme file says :


2. Known Issues

- In the advanced video settings, if you are using nVidia 66.93 drivers and you select the Enable Hardware Shadow Mapping option, the shadows will disappear with some NVidia video cards. ATI cards do not support Hardware Shadow Mapping.


:hmmm:

OWA
04-02-05, 08:00 PM
Yeah, that's weird. I can see why you wanted an official explanation. :) I also noticed on the DVD that one of the manuals they provided was actually the manual for the demo.

PaiN
04-02-05, 09:59 PM
I played the demo yesterday, I really liked it, so I picked up the game on the way home tonight, while I was installing I read that FS performance review.

....Don't know who I'm more pissed at :mad: Me for picking now to try an ATI card or :mad: Ubisoft for not supporting the cards. I do know that I'm on the verge of retuning the game before I ever play it

circuitbreaker8
04-02-05, 10:30 PM
I love my X800XT PE :D I used to have a 6800GT OC but man...there is no way i'll ever go back to NV after having that card. Splinter Cell looked really nice also, even though it was 1.1..Aw well, i'll upgrade when Unreal 3 comes out.

MikeC
04-02-05, 10:42 PM
Circuitbreaker you got a split personality or something? Don't trash up the tech forums.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=577472&postcount=1

YOGIx213
04-02-05, 10:47 PM
Circuitbreaker you got a split personality or something? Don't trash up the tech forums.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=577472&postcount=1


Lol...funny... :p

toxikneedle
04-03-05, 12:02 AM
I wanna play it already, that article was nice though :).

circuitbreaker8
04-03-05, 01:10 AM
Circuitbreaker you got a split personality or something? Don't trash up the tech forums.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=577472&postcount=1

HEY! I needed a PCI-E videocard till the R520 came out :p But I dont think i'll be moving on to 939 just yet...I'm gonna see how those Venice CPU's turn out.

aZn_plyR
04-03-05, 04:15 AM
HEY! I needed a PCI-E videocard till the R520 came out :p But I dont think i'll be moving on to 939 just yet...I'm gonna see how those Venice CPU's turn out.

yeah but you said you were never gonna go back to the GT EVER AGAIN and the ULTRA is just a speed bumped version..LMAO'


I gotta admit, ur a funny guy :) but maybe you want to go SLI with an extra ultra or something? hehe

Fotis
04-03-05, 04:48 AM
Can someone please give some 6600GT benchmarks ? :angel:

ATI_Dude
04-03-05, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by OWA
This is what the readme says:

Q: "Hardware Shadow Mapping" in advanced graphics settings is grayed out and I can't enable it.

A: Hardware Shadow Mapping is supported only on GeForce and Radeon 9500+ cards if you have the latest drivers installed. Hardware Shadow Mapping increases only the rendering performance and has no direct impact on the visual quality of the game.


While in the official demo , the readme file says :

Quote:

2. Known Issues

- In the advanced video settings, if you are using nVidia 66.93 drivers and you select the Enable Hardware Shadow Mapping option, the shadows will disappear with some NVidia video cards. ATI cards do not support Hardware Shadow Mapping.


:hmmm:

This confused me a bit as well since both Readme files are correct and wrong at the same time :)

All modern graphics cards support shadow mapping in hardware (the original Radeon was the first) they just use different methods to achive the same result. Shadow mapping is basically a two pass algorithm which 1) renders a "shadow map" from each shadow casting light source to a texture (priority z buffering), and 2) compare priority z buffer values with the camera view (player's view) to check if a pixel is lit or in the shadows.

All nVidia cards since the GeForce 3 has an on-board "shadow buffer" which speed up rendering of shadow maps and use a special high precision 16/24 bit texture format which requires direct hardware support. The shadow buffer also automatically softens shadow edges to reduces aliasing artifacts. Obviously SC:CT uses this approach since it comes for free when you develop the Xbox and PC versions and there's no way ATI can support it

However all DX9 graphics cards support shadow mapping in hardware with same precision as the "nVidia shadow buffer" through their pixel shaders. Even DX 8.0/8.1 hardware support "hardware shadow mapping" although precision and speed is lower than PS 2.0 floating point textures. As we can see in the game PS 1.1 is more than enough to render good looking shadows with minimal aliasing.