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Viffer5
04-07-05, 10:52 PM
I can get one really cheap. How well do these things OC? They are 12x multi with 166FSB and 1.6v core. I currently have an AthlonXP 3000+ 200FSB and I can't OC it much because of my slow ram. about 4% OC stable is it.

This Sempron is a Barton core (512K cache, not the TB-"B" core like the other Semprons) so it's sort of equivalent to an Athlon XP 2700+ if one was ever made. I'm thinking of cranking the FSB to 200x12 = 2400MHz. My DDR3200 memory will handle that fine. The slightly lower vcore would help temps too. I believe the packaging also has a heat spreader as well so that would help too.

Anyone have good success with one of these?

ChrisRay
04-08-05, 04:46 AM
I think I read an xbitlabs article about the 3100+ OCing to 2.7 Ghz...

Viffer5
04-08-05, 11:02 AM
Do you have a link to that article? What core is the Sempron 3100 based on and what's the fsb? Like I mentioned, I think the S3000 would be equivalent to an AXP2700+ if one ever existed. I'm guessing the S3100 = AXP2800+ Barton @ 166fsb? These have been known to OC successfully to 200x13 = 2.6GHz

I'm surprised by the lower core voltage though (1.6vs 1.65). That might help with OCing and temps.

$n][pErMan
04-08-05, 12:07 PM
sempron .. lmao. What a piece of ****. Its a barton chip with the 512kb cache lasered off to 256kb L2 cache. I sold one to someone who wanted one and I looked at the chip and you can see the burn marks clear as day. Figured AMD took something great and ****ed it up :( If you want to OC... get an XP Barton chip.

I'm surprised by the lower core voltage though (1.6vs 1.65). That might help with OCing and temps
I think its because its the final reversion of the chip so they probably have it tweaked to the max to use less voltage thus its more efficiant. Which is good for OCing.. but those fools killed the cache so its a moot point.

superklye
04-08-05, 12:25 PM
that's awesome about barton-core Sempies...I didn't know they were going to make any of those...I thought they were all going to be TB-B w/256KB L2

Viffer5
04-08-05, 05:41 PM
[QUOTE='$n][pErMan']sempron .. lmao. What a piece of ****. Its a barton chip with the 512kb cache lasered off to 256kb L2 cache. I sold one to someone who wanted one and I looked at the chip and you can see the burn marks clear as day. Figured AMD took something great and ****ed it up :( If you want to OC... get an XP Barton chip.
QUOTE]

Umm... the 3000+ has the full 512Kb

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/17/amd_ships_sempron_3000/

The other semprons are thoroughbred "B"'s with 166FSB and 256K

$n][pErMan
04-09-05, 12:47 AM
[QUOTE='$n][pErMan']sempron .. lmao. What a piece of ****. Its a barton chip with the 512kb cache lasered off to 256kb L2 cache. I sold one to someone who wanted one and I looked at the chip and you can see the burn marks clear as day. Figured AMD took something great and ****ed it up :( If you want to OC... get an XP Barton chip.
QUOTE]

Umm... the 3000+ has the full 512Kb

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/17/amd_ships_sempron_3000/

The other semprons are thoroughbred "B"'s with 166FSB and 256K
No joke? Thats pretty tight then. They must be hard to find though... I thought they were all lasered off to 256kb L2 and were T-Bred cores :p

Viffer5
04-09-05, 10:21 AM
Not really hard to find actually, if you're in the US check out the following link:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1160591

the 2800 is TB "B" based.

The barton cores are actually harder to find these days.

$n][pErMan
04-09-05, 01:14 PM
Damn .. thats a badass price for that! :) I might pick one up just to see how well they OC over the original Bartons or if there is any difference at all :p Maybe I will be able to beat my current OC with that chip (although im almost at 2.6ghz now and still going.. lol).

Viffer5
04-10-05, 12:12 PM
I doubt you'll be able to do any better. Your multi is 13 vs the 12 of this chip. The only benefit this chip has going for it is it's lower 1.6v core, it's 12x multiplier and it's really low price!

I ordered one (all the local shops are out of stock... it's a fast mover... I wonder why?!?) so I'm looking forward to testing it and seeing what it'll do. If it does better than my AXP 3000+ Barton 200FSB, then I'll use the Sempy in my gaming rig, if not, it'll go into the media center box.

I'll post the results. The chip should come in around Wednesday if I'm lucky.

$n][pErMan
04-10-05, 12:45 PM
Yes... let us all know how it works out. IM curious how the final reversion of the Barton core OC's and under what voltage and temps. As I said.. your lucky you found one ;) Your probably right I will not be able to do much better. Id probably get the same OC just with less volts (which could mean I might be able to go higher). But meh... it would be a trivial gain at this point anyway. :p

Viffer5
04-11-05, 06:19 AM
I'm thinking this would be a great upgrade for older TB users. It's not as dramatic as to to an A64, but for $60 to upgrade to a barton with 12x multi with potential to easily hit 2.4G with standard (read inexpensive) PC3200 memory you can't go wrong!

It's probably the easiest, most painless, and cheapest way to get more life out of an older box. No drivers to remove, instal, upgrade. Just pop it in and start benchmarking!

I'll be sure to let everyone know how my little OC quest goes.

Viffer5
04-14-05, 11:44 AM
Here's an update. I just got the chip in yesterday and I'm happy to say that it runs very happily @ 200FSB x 12 multi for 2.4GHz. I haven't had the chance to really put it through it's faces, but I picked up about 2,000 points in Aquamark3D. It's interesting though how processor clocks are higher but some parts, the AXP3000+ seems faster. I had my AXP3000+ running @ speeds between 205FSB and 223FSB (with varying degrees of stability mind you) and I'm guessing the seemingly faster performance of the AXP3000+ can be attributed to the higher FSB over the actual clock speed of the chip. Mind you, I have not been able to get 2.4G out of my AXP 3000+ 200FSB chip so I'm quite pleased that the $65(US) sempron is currently walking away from the much more expensive Athlon XP 3000+ OC'd to boot!

Everything is identical in terms of hardware and drivers. The only difference is that the Sempron has a lower default core voltage of 1.6v vs. the Athlon of 1.65v. Currently the Sempron @ 2.4G needs about 1.8v to be happy but the core temps under load with my Swiftech Water Cooler are 45C vs 46C of the Athlon @ 1.7v. This looks promising particularly for people with older TB based systems that are air cooled. $65 is not a big investment to go up to a barton core running @ 1.8v @ 2.4GHz!!!

I'll test further @ 210FSB with looser mem timings and see how high it will go. I'm pleased with the results so far. I haven't done any prime95 test and I know the RAM is good to 220MHz+ as it has been tested with the Athlon setup.

$n][pErMan
04-14-05, 04:30 PM
Well faster FSB = always better. Thats probably why the XP3000 seems faster :) Thanks for the update though!

joltcola
04-14-05, 06:22 PM
I'm thinking this would be a great upgrade for older TB users. It's not as dramatic as to to an A64, but for $60 to upgrade to a barton with 12x multi with potential to easily hit 2.4G with standard (read inexpensive) PC3200 memory you can't go wrong!

It's probably the easiest, most painless, and cheapest way to get more life out of an older box. No drivers to remove, instal, upgrade. Just pop it in and start benchmarking!

I'll be sure to let everyone know how my little OC quest goes.

What are you running it on? Motherboard, videocard, ram, etc...

edit:update: purchased a sempron 3000+. I wish they made the rebates apply at the time of purchase, but this isn't a bad buy.

-- jolt

Viffer5
04-14-05, 11:49 PM
Abit NF7-S v2.0, LeadTek 6600GT @ 570, 1.11G, 2x512MB Kingston VR 3200 @ 2.5-3-3-8, Antec tower with 400W smart PSU, Swiftech water cooling, Baracuda 160GB SATA HDD, lots of case fans...

What else do you want to know?

Viffer5
04-15-05, 03:15 AM
ok, it looks like the best stable performance I can get out of this system/memory is 2465.58MHz according to WCPUID. That's 205FSBx12. This is a noticeable improvement over my AXP3000+ @ 205FSBx10.5. This has makes me believe that I'm currently limited by my RAM. The chip is running under full load @ 1.825v core water cooled and is running at about 46.5C while running prime95+memtest concurrently.

My preliminary tests bench it as follows:

Aquamark3d = 52,249 reliably. I have scored 52,604 but the system crashed
3DMark05 = 3698 best to date.

This is with 2x512MB Kingston VR 3200 @ 2.5-3-3-8 2.8v
Sempron 3000+ @ 2.466GHz (205x12 @ 1.825v)
Swiftech water cooling (44under with a few apps running, 46.5 max load)
LeadTek 6600GT 570,1.11G 71.89 drivers (just installed today)
Antec case+400"smart" PSU
bunch of case fans
Belkyn 1200vA UPS with AVR (this is really nice!)

I'd say this is really impressive busting 2.4G with a 20% OC on a bottom level chip and entry level ram. Better memory might result in higher oc's. I've run @ 2.520GHz but the memory crapped out and the system was just too unstable.

IMO, this is a kickass upgrade for those who need more juice but can't afford to spring for an A64 chip, board, ram, video card! If you have a board that will support this chip (Barton core with full 512K cache verified by WCPUID) and have $300 available, get a BFG6800 OC (2.2ns memory for faster OC's) and this chip. This will put you close to A64 territory without busting the bank. If you think my scores are decent, then go with a 6600GT and save another $50 or so!

I play Doom3 @ 1280x1024 @ ultra quality +2xAA and it plays very well with minimal slowdowns. Turn AA off and you can play at any res you want! FarCry no problems (as long as you have 1.3patch for FC) and HL2 plays sweet as long as you don't crank of the AA and res.

This combo will work well with anyone on a 17" LCD @ 1280x1024 as this will play great at upto that res. Go beyond and it starts becoming un-playable. Mind you, I play POP Sands of Time @ 1600 res with no issues at all!

I might end up getting more/better ram to test some more as I now have enough parts for my 2nd PC. I'll be happy to post my findings then, but I am quite pleased with this current setup! :D

$n][pErMan
04-15-05, 12:21 PM
The chip is running under full load @ 1.825v core water cooled and is running at about 46.5C while running prime95+memtest concurrently.
That seems a little high on both the voltage and temps. Im air cooled with Zalman LED 7000B-Cu and my XP2800 is running at 204 x 12.5 = 2.53ghz (23% FSB increase and 22% ghz increase) and im only using 1.75 Vcore! My idle temps (air cooled mind you) are 39c (41c on a hot day) and 48c full load (50c on a hot day). I bet you could get away with less voltage and remain perfectly stable as that chip is a barton core (and a final reversion at that). My chip passes the Prime95 also if you had any question on that (apperently I had to reinstall prime95 from before) :)

MustangSVT
04-15-05, 04:01 PM
1.825v for that kind of frequency sounds pretty high. It sucks that you can't really find XP Mobiles any more. 1.8v for just 2.4G is a pretty steep voltage. I only run my Barton XP-M at 1.68-1.7v in order to get 2400 out of it. If I pumped 1.825 through it, I'd prolly get like 2600. Too bad you can't find BartonM's anymore nowadays tho. :thumbdwn:

Viffer5
04-15-05, 09:40 PM
I can bring the temps down by cranking up the RPM on the rad fan but I went with water for for quiet it is.

I think the temps are ok, well within AMD spec. I can probably get away with lowering the core volt to 1.8 or maybe even 1.75. I had it higher in attempts @ higher FSB's but I think my memory is the problem not the chip and I currently cannot get anything higher than 205FSB stable. I don't think I brought the voltage back down when bringin the FSB down.

I'd love to test with better ram but unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to spend a couple hundred bucks so I can tweak a Sempron to 2.5G or higher.

Umm... what's a safe voltage for AGP and bus speed? I think I'm @ 1 nothch below the max on the ABIT NF7-S v2.0 I'm on and the AGP speed is currently 83MHz. I find this works well but I'd like to crank on the video card as I've hit the practical limit of my CPU.

My 6600GT is currently clocked to 570, 1.11G. It idles around 40 and under load it dials in at just under 80. With a Zalman air or water cooling solution and lower temps, would I realistically be able to get substantially better OC's on the card? If so, should I go water or air? I'm leaning towards air as it's easier. It actually costs more for the air cooler than the water solution from Zalman.

$n][pErMan
04-15-05, 10:42 PM
I don't think I brought the voltage back down when bringin the FSB down. Id take the voltage down to where is just becomes unstable then take it up a notch. I see no reason why your running so high and its only going to lower the life of the chip :p

I'm on and the AGP speed is currently 83MHz.Uhhh... correct me if im wrong.... but PCI should always be very close to 33mhz and AGP should always be very close to 66mhz if im not mistaken. Change the PCI divider to /6 if yours is not locked. Unless your talking about something different than me.

Viffer5
04-18-05, 10:30 AM
Here's an update on my Sempron OC, I loosened up the timings on the ram (3-3-3-9) and I'm now running 211FSBx12 = >2532MHz. Memory is stable and CPU has not crashed at all. Currently running Prime95+Memtest for 6hrs+ with no errors, still going. I'll check pn progress when I get home from work. should be ok @ around 20hrs or so.

I have to run 1.93v to make it happy at that clock. 213 needs a lot more juice and the temperatures go up higher than I'd like. Right now under full load it hits 50.5C

I figure I'll have a clock setting for gaming and another clock setting for regular use. 200x12 = 2.4GHz @ 2.5-3-3-8 timmings very stable with good performance and a voltage of about 1.83v. Not too high, but my rig nurs very cool @ 45C full load.

My PCI is locked @ 66MHz, I'm ocing the AGP bus. I notice a small increase in video performance clocked @ 83MHz.

Currently I'm @ 2.55GHz = PR 4000+ = 26% overclock and 21% increase in core voltage. running 2.55GHz on a $60 US chip is pretty impressive if you ask me. I'm not too concerned about the higher than usual voltage since I'm water cooled and it's still well within AMD spec under max load for 6hrs plus. Doom3 gets it pretty hot @ 1280x1024 4xAA, 8xAF but anything @ 1600 gets it close to that 50C figure.

Again, these numbers are really impressive for a $60US chip! All TB users take note, these chips may not be available for much longer. I haven't tested a Sempron 3100+. I think it's based on a 200MHz FSB Barton core and would probably be more expensive than the 3000+. Get one while they're still available. Apparantly AMD will be dropping their prices on the Semprons in May. Not sure if it's only for the A64 platform or not.

BTW, my AquaMark3 score went up by about 3000 points from before to 53,000 with a 6600GT. 3DMark05 hasn't changed much and it's still around 3,700. I figure with a 6800 or 6800GT I should be in the 5,000 range and I should be able to play anything @ 1600 with AA + AF. :D

joltcola
04-18-05, 04:58 PM
What would be your best guess on a stable oc on air?
Also, what other upgrades could be made hardware wise to better take advantage of the oc? Mobo swap? Different Ram?

That is some impressive performance, and the numbers definatly shows. Nice work, and thank you for posting this information. I'm still waiting on my cpu in the mail to see what I can do with a modest oc.

-- jolt

Viffer5
04-18-05, 11:30 PM
Max OC with air depends on a number of things, primarily how effective the cooling is and how much noise you can live with. In theory, you should be able to OC almost has high as water, just with more noise.

I am using Kingston ValueRam (waits for laughing to stop) because that's what I had. I have 2 512MB dims of PC3200 CAS 3. Using better ram (read CAS 2) would show a nice improvement in throughput. My performance @ 205FSB with latency 2.5-3-3-8 is very close to 209FSB with latency of 3-3-3-9 regardless of the additional 50MHz in clocks or so from the higher FSB.

Basically having a low FSB chip with a high multiplier is the way to go. This chip has a nice 1.6v core as opposed to the 1.65v core of the Athlon XP so there's a bit more room to crank on the voltage. I've found that with this chip, I can run it around 200FSB with marginal increase in voltage, say 1.775v. Once you reach a certain point, voltage needs to be increased almost dramatically to gain a small increase in clocks.

From 166 to 183 is maybe .1V increase. From 183 to 200 is another .1v increase. From 200 to 205 is where things start getting wierd. 205FSB = 1.85v. 205 to 208 = .08v more. 208 to 211 = another .02v for a total of now 1.95v Core. With each increase in voltage, temperature increases as well.

I think that with this chip and good air cooling, 200 x 12 with 2.5-3-3-8 (or better) is attainable @ about 1.8~1.83 volts and is good for a PR rating of about 3600+. That is a 20% OC over stock and this can be attained with cheap PC3200 ram, nothing really special since we're not going crazy with the FSB here. 205MHz = 23% OC over stock and is = PR3800+ @ 2460MHz.

All in all, I'd say this is well worth the $60 or so US. Keep in mind that OCing a chip potentially reduces the life span of the part. I have never fried a chip because of overclocking and I have been overclocking since my P75. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but if you get 2 years out of a $60 investment and it saves you from buying an expensive new rig, I say it's well worth it! :angel:

joltcola
04-19-05, 11:37 PM
Very goot post Viffer5. Thanks for going over the whole thing. It defiantly gave me a direction to go with older equipment that I still would like to get more out of. If you look around at my post about the cpu identification. You'll notice that I got the wrong chip in the mail and i'm trying to figure out what to do about.

-- jolt