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Banko
05-17-05, 06:08 PM
some may be, running on dev kits. but the killzone vid and some other game vids i've seen that look really awesome, aren't.
Of course they aren't running in real time since the dev's for those games were not there so it was just a video of what those dev's have done, and apparently it is in-game footage so it probably is real.

Bad_Boy
05-17-05, 06:23 PM
fight night was also confirmed ingame. the ripples in his cheek were pretty damn nice IMO. i think ps3 has the power to give us graphics like the ones killzone, tekken, gundam, final fantasy, motor storm...etc

edit: i think the getaway was realtime also, ill have to find a link cause i forget.

we dont even know 100% that they were ingame or not, many people say that the AA wasnt perfect in some of the games signaling something may of been recorded while ingame and shown in video at the conference or really real time when they had shown it.

I don't like that when he moved the camera around in UE3, the bots were frozen. Get some action on the screen.
it was a tech demo man, and he was just proving a point.

ATI_Dude
05-17-05, 06:47 PM
I think the ATi chip in the XB looks more powerful, its EDRAM is going to make it a monster. I wish PC cards had that.

ebt you mentioned it was "only" 10MB. EDRAM cannot be compared to regular system/video ram =) Something with 256GB/sec bandwidth makes 1.2GHz GDDR3 *pathetic*.

I have to agree. Sony claims the RSX is about as fast as two GeForce 6800 Ultra cards, but I bet the R500 will be even faster at maixum quality settings (i.e. fully lit and skinned polygons with FSAA). The 10 mb eDRAM creates an insane amount of bandwidth which in effect makes 2x FSAA free. The unified shader system also makes it a lot more flexible since it doesn't have to use dedicated pixel and vertex shaders. Unless nVidia has increased the number of temp registers and the number of FP calculation per clock considerably compared to the NV4x I fear the RSX will be in trouble. AA will probably also take a larger performance hit on the PS3 since it doesn't have eDRAM.

I still think the PS3 will be the overall faster system since it has more system bandwidth and a more powerful CPU. This makes it possible to use more advanced physics and AI as well as more complex shadows.

killahsin
05-17-05, 07:41 PM
nice post ati dude and you are definatly correct its a win win for both firms just from different angles.

fight night was also confirmed ingame. the ripples in his cheek were pretty damn nice IMO. i think ps3 has the power to give us graphics like the ones killzone, tekken, gundam, final fantasy, motor storm...etc

edit: i think the getaway was realtime also, ill have to find a link cause i forget.

we dont even know 100% that they were ingame or not, many people say that the AA wasnt perfect in some of the games signaling something may of been recorded while ingame and shown in video at the conference or really real time when they had shown it.


it was a tech demo man, and he was just proving a point.


mark from epic confirmed that the ps3 is indeed capable of doing everything we saw in those videos in real time and went so far as to say it could do much more complex scenes than that.

de><ta
05-17-05, 09:49 PM
I think its cancelled now :p

True.. the xbox360 vaguely had my intrest

But the PS3 just blew it away.

btw. the Killzone trailer has to be the best PS3 trailer so far :eek:

GamerGuyX
05-17-05, 11:04 PM
First ever Metal Gear Solid 4 teaser trailer:

WATCH (http://c.ps3movies.ign.com/ps3/video/article/615/615511/mgs4_trailer_raw_qtlow.mov)

Bad_Boy
05-17-05, 11:28 PM
First ever Metal Gear Solid 4 teaser trailer:

WATCH (http://c.ps3movies.ign.com/ps3/video/article/615/615511/mgs4_trailer_raw_qtlow.mov)

pretty entertaining i gotta say :p
thank god thats not what the real mgs4 graphics will look like

six_storm
05-17-05, 11:29 PM
True.. the xbox360 vaguely had my intrest

But the PS3 just blew it away.

btw. the Killzone trailer has to be the best PS3 trailer so far :eek:

Too bad it was CG pre rendered . . . :D

Banko
05-17-05, 11:34 PM
Too bad it was CG pre rendered . . . :D
According to Beyond3d:

About Killzone Demo - From John Davision blog - 1Up

Quote:
I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

Here's the actual blog:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401

six_storm
05-17-05, 11:38 PM
Ehhhh, I dunno Banko, don't really believe it. Until I see it with my own eyes, I'm not buying that it was real time. Now I can understand the majority of it was but not all of it.

newlinuxguy
05-17-05, 11:41 PM
MGS4 video is pretty awesome !!!!!!! got to see that :D ohh btw, xbox fanboys are pretty much in denial :P

killahsin
05-17-05, 11:43 PM
Ok so your saying you can understand a majority of it was real time but some of it wasnt. Mind telling me which part wasnt real time? Since the whole demo was insane quality? I mean if it cant render that in real time i'd be curious if your eye could pick out which was pre rendered and which was real time.

six_storm
05-17-05, 11:48 PM
Ok so your saying you can understand a majority of it was real time but some of it wasnt. Mind telling me which part wasnt real time? Since the whole demo was insane quality? I mean if it cant render that in real time i'd be curious if your eye could pick out which was pre rendered and which was real time.

Well, I can't really pick out any particular parts (only saw it on TV earlier this evening) but I'd have to say that wasn't real time gameplay. It had to have been pre rendered. Seriously, I'm sure when we all get our PS3s and a copy of Killzone (now known as the "Halo Killer"), the actual gameplay won't be that high of quality.

AthlonXP1800
05-18-05, 12:12 AM
I bet the R500 will be even faster at maixum quality settings (i.e. fully lit and skinned polygons with FSAA). The 10 mb eDRAM creates an insane amount of bandwidth which in effect makes 2x FSAA free. The unified shader system also makes it a lot more flexible since it doesn't have to use dedicated pixel and vertex shaders. Unless nVidia has increased the number of temp registers and the number of FP calculation per clock considerably compared to the NV4x I fear the RSX will be in trouble. AA will probably also take a larger performance hit on the PS3 since it doesn't have eDRAM.

Here are 2 differences methods, you see Xbox 360 R500 chip rely on 1080i and PS3 RSX chip rely on 1080p, that why R500 need eDRAM to use 1080i format so RSX dont really need it to use 1080p format. 1080i has the disadvantages over 1080p format are that 1080i used twice more bandwidth on signal than 1080p and it deliver a half frame every 1/60th of a second in full frames at 30fps. That when eDRAM came in to deliver the other missing frame that will give the full frames at 60fps that Xbox 360 need for gaming. In a year time 1080p will became new standard format to replace 1080i, 1080p has the advantages over 1080i format are saved twice bandwidth on signal than 1080i did and instead used that saved bandwidth to store more image data and also it deliver a full frame every 1/60th of a second in full frames at 60fps.

No RSX is not in trouble after watched Xbox 360 conference, R500 turned to be the biggest disappointment after all the overhyped about R500 rumoured the most powerful and fastest chip and Bill Gates believed he got things right with Xbox 360 and will beaten PS3 this time. I watched all the games trailers and thought "Is this joking? Where the breakthrough graphics?" None of it excited or blowed me away, most games trailers looked like it can very easy done on PC's last and current generation videocards and PS2, some others games trailers with very simple graphics can be easy done with Dreamcast. I think ATI and Microsoft heavily underestimated the power of Nvidia and RSX chip 3 years ago when NV30 came out failed to catched up with R300 and thought Nviida will never catch up and will fall like 3dfx, now they got it all wrong, RSX turned to be the most advanced GPU and R500 looked like obselete already.

evilchris
05-18-05, 12:21 AM
Here are 2 differences methods, you see Xbox 360 R500 chip rely on 1080i and PS3 RSX chip rely on 1080p, that why R500 need eDRAM to use 1080i format so RSX dont really need it to use 1080p format. 1080i has the disadvantages over 1080p format are that 1080i used twice more bandwidth on signal than 1080p and it deliver a half frame every 1/60th of a second in full frames at 30fps. That when eDRAM came in to deliver the other missing frame that will give the full frames at 60fps that Xbox 360 need for gaming. In a year time 1080p will became new standard format to replace 1080i, 1080p has the advantages over 1080i format are saved twice bandwidth on signal than 1080i did and instead used that saved bandwidth to store more image data and also it deliver a full frame every 1/60th of a second in full frames at 60fps.



Everything you just typed is inaccurate and makes no sense at all.

newlinuxguy
05-18-05, 12:31 AM
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050407/103542/

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050414/103769/

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050426/104211/

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050511/104552/

AthlonXP1800
05-18-05, 01:12 AM
Everything you just typed is inaccurate and makes no sense at all.

If you dont understand what I am saying then you probably understand better by typing in "1080i vs 1080p" in search engine, that where I get lots of informations and input what I am saying seem made sense.

AthlonXP1800
05-18-05, 01:25 AM
pretty entertaining i gotta say :p
thank god thats not what the real mgs4 graphics will look like

I think maybe people who developed MGS3 created MGS4 CG trailer on PS2 want to see that kind of graphics in PS3 in real time.

Slybri
05-18-05, 01:55 AM
One thing that bothers me about all this...

Can you imagine the next Grand Theft Auto with these graphics, physics, and AI? I don't know if I could pop a cap in someone's head or run over anybody if it looked and felt that real. It would give me nightmares, I think.


Oh, and BTW, I thought that demo for MOTORSTORM was almost as amazing as KILLZONE. God that game looks like fun!

Snufalufagus
05-18-05, 02:11 AM
Athlon neither Microsoft or Sony are running either of the GPU's you talk about. The microsoft Alpha Units use a 9800XT or an X800 GPU and I read somewhere that the Sony unit runs dual 6800s. Developers have said the Xbox 360 games are only running at one-third power of what the final unit should be capable of.

jAkUp
05-18-05, 02:11 AM
hey guys...

newlinuxguy
05-18-05, 02:17 AM
64bit floating point texture filtering n blending

:D :D

fivefeet8
05-18-05, 02:19 AM
64bit floating point texture filtering n blending

:D :D

The Nv4x cards already have that.

jAkUp
05-18-05, 02:20 AM
I thought the NV4x cards were 16/32 floating bit precision?

fivefeet8
05-18-05, 02:22 AM
I thought the NV4x cards were 16/32 floating bit precision?

64bit floating point blending/filtering is also known as FP16 blending/filtering. Mostly used for HDR. ;)