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View Full Version : Xbox360's ATI Xenos GPU has more transistors (332M) than PS3's Nvidia RSX GPU (300M)


midnightgamer
05-21-05, 04:29 AM
it was first reported, back on May 12th, that the Xbox 360 GPU which used to be called R500, had only 150 Million transistors.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/612/612995p1.html

the GPU, the Graphic Processing Unit, which handles the graphic output of the system (and which has 150 million transistors in it),


very odd concidering that ATI's 1+ year old R420 in Radeon X800 has 160M.


now it has become known that the Xbox 360's ATI GPU is not called R500. it is called Xenos.

Xenos has 2 seperate dies on one package. the main 'parent' GPU die where most of the processing gets done--has 232 million transistors. the 'daughter' die which consists of eDRAM plus 192 sub-processors for anti-aliasing, plus z/stencil and (i think) alpha blending hardware-- has the other 100 million transistors. total transistors for the entire Xbox360 graphics subsystem / GPU package, is 332 million transistors.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p3.html

Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.

Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 332 million.




Nvidia's RSX 'Reality Synthesizer' GPU for Playstation3 has 300 million transistors, and no super-high bandwidth eDRAM to take the load off of the main memory bandwidths in PS3.


Xbox 360 GPU is not the puny 150M transistor part that it was thought to be last week. :D

MUYA
05-21-05, 04:37 AM
The 10MB E-dram adds a lot to the transistor count. Come to think about it, appox 50 million for 1 mb? That would be 500million for the edram alone? I dunno how edrams are well made up etc so the transistor count might be different to a L2 based calculation/guess i made. So i dunno maybe teh r500 does have more transistors...it does have 48 unified shading pipelines.

midnightgamer
05-21-05, 04:42 AM
The 10MB E-dram adds a lot to the transistor count. Coe to think about it, appox 50 million for 1 mb? so i dunno maybe teh r500 does itself have more transistors...it does have 48 unified shading pipelines.


yes but that is eDRAM and transistors that PS3's RSX does not have ;)

Vagrant Zero
05-21-05, 12:11 PM
yes but that is eDRAM and transistors that PS3's RSX does not have ;)

Since they're around the same Transistor amount...ya...RSX does have. And it's probabley putting them to better use.

Mr_LoL
05-21-05, 02:49 PM
So xbox360 owns ps3 hardware wise. I though developers were saying ps3 was slightly more powerful?

oldsk00l
05-21-05, 03:21 PM
right, and just because the Pentium4 had more transistors than the AthlonXP I guess the AXP just sucked too right?

gah, what a stupid lame retarded ignorant arguement

InqWoN1776
05-21-05, 05:29 PM
I read that the x360's gpu acts as the memory controller as well... so that has to add to the transist. count. we still don't know all the details about the rsx though.

edit: the x360's gpu is split into two die's... parent and daughter die's. so, does this mean that ati's future desktop chips will have a second die for embeded ram and other functions?? This all compared to a single die 300mil gpu in the ps3.

Subtestube
05-21-05, 06:04 PM
The 332 will be because it has a so called 'unified' architecture IMHO - those unified shader units are bound to be more complex than traditional ones.

kev13dd
05-21-05, 06:05 PM
right, and just because the Pentium4 had more transistors than the AthlonXP I guess the AXP just sucked too right?

gah, what a stupid lame retarded ignorant arguement

And how stupid and lame of Sony to have Nvidia come out and make such grand statements about their transistor count

If Nvidia wants to make it sound like transistor count makes the better chip, then I think the argument becomes relative, even if it's wrong

K

InqWoN1776
05-21-05, 06:07 PM
i agree with kev on this.... The sony hype machine is up to it again.

evilchris
05-21-05, 07:07 PM
Sony's much better at hype than Microsoft, they were last generation and we all know whose machine is more powerful.

Vagrant Zero
05-21-05, 07:52 PM
And how stupid and lame of Sony to have Nvidia come out and make such grand statements about their transistor count

If Nvidia wants to make it sound like transistor count makes the better chip, then I think the argument becomes relative, even if it's wrong

K

Looks like you didn't bother watching the press conference. They didn't say more transistors = better performence, they simply used the more transistors thing as a jumping off point to explain all the new things they could do with the RSX.

npras42
05-22-05, 04:43 AM
Sony's much better at hype than Microsoft, they were last generation and we all know whose machine is more powerful.

The XBOX came out like a year or more after the PS2! I dont think anyone thought for a second that the XBOX would be less powerful than PS2. They might have thought it would be closer, and everyone said that XBOX was a PC-in-a-console-case so it wouldnt utilise its superior specs as well, but I dont think anyone thought it would be less powerful.

|MaguS|
05-22-05, 05:40 AM
The article is complete BS... as for the power of the systems... I talked to the XDR guys at Rambus during E3 (bored Jakup in the process), They claim the PS3 has the edge even with the 360 having the EDRAM due to the PS3 having a dedicated bus for its GPU while the 360s GPU needs to share the bus with the CPU when accessing the RAM.

BTW Developers are also saying that the PS3 is easier to develop for then the 360...

retsam
05-22-05, 06:08 AM
we dont even know how many of those transisters are redundant, cache and just plain broken.... this is a really lame argument.... the devolpers have spoken ...these are the guys in the know ...end of story

kev13dd
05-22-05, 12:14 PM
Looks like you didn't bother watching the press conference. They didn't say more transistors = better performence, they simply used the more transistors thing as a jumping off point to explain all the new things they could do with the RSX.

And it looks like you didn't read the original post; you said

right, and just because the Pentium4 had more transistors than the AthlonXP I guess the AXP just sucked too right?

And never in the original post did it say that the PS3 sucks because it has less transistors...

Sony may not have said it had better performance because it has more resistors, but you can bet your ass off they were hoping any GPU illiterate person was ganna assume that meant more power

You can shoot a person and go to prison for 40 years or less than 1 year. The law is all about intent. So is what Sony says. They may not come out and say it, but it's what they intend it to do

K

oldsk00l
05-22-05, 02:15 PM
And it looks like you didn't read the original post; you said



And never in the original post did it say that the PS3 sucks because it has less transistors...

Sony may not have said it had better performance because it has more resistors, but you can bet your ass off they were hoping any GPU illiterate person was ganna assume that meant more power

You can shoot a person and go to prison for 40 years or less than 1 year. The law is all about intent. So is what Sony says. They may not come out and say it, but it's what they intend it to do

K

Vagrant didn't post that, I did :D

and ahhhh, my point is not to be a fanboi, or to advocate for one or the other...but to have a DISCUSSION about which is more powerful just because of transistor count....is about the STUPIDEST thing you could do.

If anyone wants to debate technical merit based on transistor count they belong in the gamespot or IGN forums. That way we can get into idiotic semantics like "Wel, teh PS3 = more powarful because it = silver!!!! fagorts seieng silvar gives teh PS3 more confidence in itself!!!! Plus, it has more ports, because it has more ports it must haev teh powar too handle al of them, so it's definiteley more powarful than teh Xbox360.".

evilchris
05-22-05, 02:48 PM
"Wel, teh PS3 = more powarful because it = silver!!!! fagorts seieng silvar gives teh PS3 more confidence in itself!!!! Plus, it has more ports, because it has more ports it must haev teh powar too handle al of them, so it's definiteley more powarful than teh Xbox360.".

rofl

midnightgamer
05-23-05, 05:32 AM
i agree with kev on this.... The sony hype machine is up to it again.


yes I agree that it is, although now in some different ways than what they did to hype PS2. but also, more of the same, as well :>

midnightgamer
05-23-05, 05:35 AM
The article is complete BS... as for the power of the systems... I talked to the XDR guys at Rambus during E3 (bored Jakup in the process), They claim the PS3 has the edge even with the 360 having the EDRAM due to the PS3 having a dedicated bus for its GPU while the 360s GPU needs to share the bus with the CPU when accessing the RAM.

BTW Developers are also saying that the PS3 is easier to develop for then the 360...


ahh but the GPU has a dedicated bus to the eDRAM unit. this bus is 32 GB/sec read, and 16 GB/sec write from the eDRAM back to the GPU. 48 GB/sec total. on top of that, you have the inter or intra eDRAM bandwidth, which is incredibly high. 256 GB/sec or 2 Terabits/sec. the PS3 does not have an equivalent because it lacks eDRAM on its GPU.

InqWoN1776
05-23-05, 09:52 AM
Midnight, the way i read it was that the x360 doesn't have embedded dram on the gpu either but rather on the "daughter die" of a two die graphics subsystem. More specifically, its located on the daughter die which is accessible by the gpu which is located on the parent die. That was just the way i understood it but i could be wrong.

|MaguS|
05-23-05, 11:56 AM
ahh but the GPU has a dedicated bus to the eDRAM unit. this bus is 32 GB/sec read, and 16 GB/sec write from the eDRAM back to the GPU. 48 GB/sec total. on top of that, you have the inter or intra eDRAM bandwidth, which is incredibly high. 256 GB/sec or 2 Terabits/sec. the PS3 does not have an equivalent because it lacks eDRAM on its GPU.

The EDRAM is only useful for AA or AF, it can't be used for polgon drawing or textures since its way to small. This will help the system not take a performance hit when doing AA/AF but the system is still limited by the amount of textures and graphics data it can preform while doing all other aspects due to the shared bandwidth to the main memory.