European GP: Qualifying (Spoiler Inside)

[BrianG]

OK, was it just me or was the Williams incredibly stable through the Chicane. The chassis looked like it was working extremely well. Great drives from both Webber and Heidfeld.

Kimi must be loaded down with fuel. He was quite smug with his comments on strategy, etc.

Bridgestone sucks.

Renault needs to get back to testing heavily or they will end up third behind McLaren and Williams.

[NAZCA M12]

I had mentioned (at least i think i did) that Renault's weakest point was maintaining their pace during the season. Every team is a moving target, to produce the best chassis doesn't mean **** if you can't evolve it at the rate of the other top teams. Apparently, at Monaco they weren't very smart either: race with heavy loads AND the soft tyre option AND allow Alonso (in especial) to push like hell at the start of the race? Well, watch them tumble down the order then. I'm speaking broadly btw, they could win the race tomorrow for all i know but throughout the season, the days of Melbourne are over.

And Williams is always stable on such chicanes/over the kerbs, nothing new here. As for my "favourite" driver in the no. 7, once again **** and owned by his team-mate. Shame he won't be the one to make way for Button next year :mad: Regarding Webber's farcical starts, i just don't buy that bull that it's the cars fault (90% car and only 10% driver according to him) all the time, since his team-mate's starts are reasonable and always better. Blaming the car all the time and accusing the team (for bringing Heidfeld in before him at the Monaco race and thus losing him second place!) is not helping and he's been under fire even by the Australian media. Anyhow, just the other day at Silverstone Williams practiced starts and they're confident they've improved them. We shall see but even if MW starts ok, who wants to bet he'll be the first one to hit the brakes and lose a position from Trulli or Montoya (or both)?

[BrianG]

The twin-keel was a flop, so yes, they are just returning to form. The aero package is coming on strong and the drivers are pushing each other. What more could you ask? I know, how about a decent launch control program...

Mechanical failure is Kimi's biggest fear, but given the last two race drives, the team seems to be telling him to throw caution to the wind and blast out of the gates.

BAR, this is a set up race. They need to place well for better qually spots at the next race and then start to charge again. There is enough time, but if I were to coose between Toyota and BAR to see who the next contender will be, I follow the money.

[NAZCA M12]

Indeed aero-wise, they're improving. In fact, no other team on the grid is introducing new aero parts on every race. However i would like to see a much more experienced testing team to speed up the evolution of the package even quicker instead of noobs like Rosberg Jr, or Pizza. Hell, i'd value Andy Priaulx's feedback (huge talent for me, who should be in F1) more than those guys i mentioned.

BAR, just like Renault skipped the first Friday session to protect their engines. They asked the FIA since they were punished, they could maybe run fresh engines and the federation rightfully imo said "no" so they're stuck with the Imola engines and thus, they're very careful. I guess they would have liked to take advantage of that stupid engine penalty rule and change them anyway since they're starting at the back whatsoever but they can't do that now without good reason. This is not their true form, in the next race we'll see where they are.

As for Toyota, well it is a bit of a scandal not to be punished for that paper infrigement in the previous race. If the FIA wanted to go by the rule, i think they could just erase all their previous results from the start of the year which would be cruel. They should however at least give them a fine (it's not as if they don't have money :D ) just to show that "we're here, we've seen that mistake of yours and we intend to punish you for that" but they didn't. I'm sure the Honda guys are furious about that. Reportedly though, Mosley wanted to ban BAR for a year but didn't because Ecclestone convinced him not to. He very correctly feared Honda would leave F1 sth that Mosley didn't think obviously :rolleyes: and thus, they were lenient to them and Honda got away scot-free, well almost. Speaking of breaking the rules, there was also a report about two races ago that three F1 teams broke the testing rules and tested at a time (and track) that they weren't supposed to. I remember RBR being one and McLaren the second but i can't recall the third team if i find the link i'll might post it. Those news were quickly buried and nobody said a think about it which is...suspicious :confused:

[BrianG]

They asked the FIA since they were punished, they could maybe run fresh engines and the federation rightfully imo said "no" so they're stuck with the Imola engines and thus, they're very careful.
From what the guys on SpeedTV were saying, the BAR engine change was put to a vote and only one team denied them changing to a new engine. Guess who - TOYOTA!!!

BWAHAHAHA!!!!111!!!!1!one!!11

Honestly, BAR should have done a better job of cheating. We all know every team "pushes" rules as far as they can go. BAR did not get caught underweight during the race. There is no way to say they were ever under weight DURING THE RACE which is why Ecclestone (along with the Honda money) did not give tham the death penalty for the season, IMHO.

Any wager on pit strategies?

[bigC]

Ferrari's season is all but over. the commentators for today's qualy said that Rubens may be considering leaving the team, since he does not like the way he has been treated. methinks if he ever did that, he'd likely be out of F1, since i doubt any other team would pick him up.

Sauber: sob. poor JV. ah well, he's rich, and can retire and lead a quite happy life. what happened to Renault? Alonso is down in 6th, Fisichella in 9th? maybe they won't run away with the championship, which would be a good thing for F1 fans in general (who wants the season to end in August? i hope it comes down to the last race in China). it was nice to see that DC out-qualied Liuzzi (maybe it was a mistake not to replace him with Klien, who had better results).

good for Heidfeld with his first pole: i hope Webber is sulking in a corner somewhere like the big baby he is. apparently, Webber is pissed that he isn't being given all the attention, and felt that he should have got second at Monaco, whilst Heidfeld is always rumoured to be kicked out, to be replaced by the best driver in F1 never to win a race.

NAZCA M12: BAR! :lol: i was so pleased when they had to run their old engines. why should cheaters prosper? Toyota didn't really cheat, apparently their was a "clerical error", so if they filed the papers on time, but they weren't received, who is at fault? and the testing arrangement was a "gentleman's agrement" between the teams; basically, all is fair in love and war, and agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on.

story: http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3091/738.html
results: http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=32978

[bigC]

From what the guys on SpeedTV were saying, the BAR engine change was put to a vote and only one team denied them changing to a new engine. Guess who - TOYOTA!!!

BWAHAHAHA!!!!111!!!!1!one!!11

Honestly, BAR should have done a better job of cheating. We all know every team "pushes" rules as far as they can go. BAR did not get caught underweight during the race. There is no way to say they were ever under weight DURING THE RACE which is why Ecclestone (along with the Honda money) did not give tham the death penalty for the season, IMHO.

Any wager on pit strategies?:lol: true, BAR indeed are bad cheaters. they claimed that they were never underweight because they carried extra fuel! but, they carried extra fuel, which could be used during the race, and didn't have the proper total weight (before adding fuel). so, they could have gone into the pits, fueled up the car quickly, and have a little extra in reserve to perhaps go a bit longer and beat the others.

as for Toyota: of course they voted against Honda. if Mercedes were caught cheating, would BMW vote to allow them to run new engines in their first race back?

[NAZCA M12]

as for Toyota: of course they voted against Honda. if Mercedes were caught cheating, would BMW vote to allow them to run new engines in their first race back?

If we were talking about the good old Mercedes (hint: fog :D ), they probably would since they'd brake the engines either way. Hopefully they will get out of that crisis period and return to their former glory. I mean, even Honda has owned them in broken engines lately. Anyway, i wasn't aware that the matter was set among the rest of the teams to decide, i only knew this...

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=87406

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=87527

...so good for Toyota lol. I still think they should be punished (lightly) too, although it sounds as if it was the FIA's fault too not to find out about those licenses a bit earlier than 5 races into the season. Maybe Toyota should fine the FIA "for not telling us you didn't receive the papers ******* it" :p BAR's name however has been severely damaged. I felt that the way they handled the case right after the whole thing was known was childish. They threatened to take the federation to court, then went back on their decision, then they hinted that other teams were illegal on the grid (could be the truth), then they accepted the decision. After doing so, they contemplated on breaking the testing rules and test at Paul Ricard if i recall correctly (they weren't supposed to since they were banned), didn't at the last moment, and then they publicly apologized.

To continue with possible rule infringements, in Spain the Williams tyres after the race were very worn out. There's a rule that dictates a certain depth of the groove in a tyre and forbids a team to run a tyre until its practically slick. According to the rules, they should probably throw them out of the results. At Monaco, both Renault's tyres were completely shot at the end of the race. Again, nobody said a thing. A blunder on the federation's part or they just don't care anymore? It irks me that the matter wasn't even raised, at all.

Finally, back to those three teams that reportedly broke the testing rules: I searched thoroughly to find those news again, i couldn't. What is this stuff, X-files? :p I do remember that the third team was not BAR nor Williams (and not Ferrari either since they don't agree to that testing limitation) so, it was one of the smaller teams. Now, regarding to the testing agreement, i think the 9 teams in it have signed to do sth like 30 days of testing and in specific venues (can't test anywhere you want any time of the year) iirc so no, its not fair at all. Not only does it expose the rest of the teams (the idiots that chose to honor the agreement), it also exposes the governing body too, although judging by their inconsistent penalties they give/don't give/should have given, they don't seem to give a **** about it anyway lol.

I think i'm going to make a thread in the future, where i'll discuss the numerous gaffs the FIA has done in the past ten years particularly the introduction of some "gem" rules under Mosley. It's so funny when back in the 80's people would blame JM Balestre being just a bit too much of a Prost fan (he was) forgetting about the racing itself. Sigh, if they only knew what was going to come under Max's era, bah :o

[NAZCA M12]

Well, Honda's on a roll looks like:

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=87855

I hope this one's true (for BMW's sake because they're going to waste their engines with Sauber):

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html?http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050529002246.shtml

And here's the icing on the cake...

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html?http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050529002047.shtml

...to which i completely agree. It's high time we change qualifying again :eek:

[bigC]

if you haven't seen the race, i suggest you don't read any further. :)





what an unlikely ending to the race. wow. do you think FIA will look into the tire rules, since this is not the first time a tire has blown, and the consequences could have been severe if Kimi hit Button? well, Alonso benefitted the most.

race results: http://www.formula1.com/race/result/738/8.html

[mikechai]

Actually the outcome is pretty much expected as you can see how his car vibrates.
The whole right front suspension just went off in the final lap...

Alonso is damn lucky being able to escape for the 1st incident at the 1st chicane and win the race while only leads the race for 1 lap, the final lap.

I feel sad for Raikonnen really, although I think he should have pitted.

[BrianG]

what an unlikely ending to the race. wow. do you think FIA will look into the tire rules, since this is not the first time a tire has blown, and the consequences could have been severe if Kimi hit Button? well, Alonso benefitted the most.

race results: http://www.formula1.com/race/result/738/8.html
It wasn't the tire, the front suspension exploded because of the flat spot Kimi put on the tire. The amount of wobble going down the front straight from the on-board camera was frightening.

like it or not the tire rule has made for better racing, at least in the only measure we have. There has been more passing, more influence from team strategy and greater emphasis on set up. I don't see it going anywhere.

I do wish the two-race engine rule would be eliminated for next season.

[bigC]

true, the tire change rule has helped to level the field, as drivers sometimes have to "nurse" their tires.

last year, the tire would have been changed (at the same time the car got re-fueled) so the wobble likely wouldn't have started and he'd win the race. but, while you can change tires (with used tires), you cannot do so at the same time you get re-fueled, so it penalizes the team (it means an extra pit-stop which costs precious time). it has hurt Ferrari, Alonso in Monaco (with bad tire wear) and now Kimi (although, if he pitted, he would have probably ended up at 3rd, but he tried to win, which is commendable).

race story:http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3098/738.html
and:http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32991

[BrianG]

The problem with Kimi's tire is that the tire could have been changed, but it still would have been up for review as to whether or not it was warranted. Obviously, it was, but at that point in the race, it would have taken him out of the pints. So, the only choice was to stay out and nurse it around one more lap.

Unfortunately, the last extreme weight shift to the nose did the suspension in. Good race though...

[bigC]

DC: tire rule dangerous: http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/formula_one/news_story.asp?ID=126469&hubName=auto_racing-formula_one