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vX
05-31-05, 02:40 PM
I've always been stumped on this one. I;ve heard leaving it on is better, but then i've heard shutting it off is better. Some say it's too much stress to the parts to leave it on constantly, others say it's bad turning everything on and off. I've got a system that runs really cool (cpu 24c idle as I type this) I've been wanting to just leave it on but I'm not sure how safe it is? I know it will probably kill my psu faster, but other than that, is there any negative effects leaving it on all the time? Do any of you gamers leave it on 24/7 ?

Riptide
05-31-05, 02:45 PM
The PC, when you get right down to it, is a business machine. It will not be harmed from leaving it on 24/7. It will however chew up more electricity that way. Keep that in mind.

Also, I would turn your display off when you go to bed and then turn it back on when you go to use the PC.

My PC is on 24/7 folding work units. So is the wife's 3200+.

If you are highly overclocked or using some sort of cooler that you aren't totally comfortable leaving it unattended for long periods then I would shut it down entirely.

vX
05-31-05, 02:47 PM
So riptide-the system in your sig is left on 24/7?

I understand about the electricity =) I'll make sure to shut off the monitor when not using the pc. Thanks for the info!

Riptide
05-31-05, 02:52 PM
My sig system is running 24/7 and completely maxed out @ 100% CPU. So is my wife's 3200+ machine.

|MaguS|
05-31-05, 02:55 PM
I would leave my PC on but its too dam loud, keeps me up if its on while I try to sleep.

Strahd
05-31-05, 04:30 PM
The damn electric company complains if I leave my PC on during peak hours. Just turning it on dims the lights in my house lol

Seriously though I believe it is better to leave your PC on then it is to shut if on and off.

ricercar
05-31-05, 04:33 PM
My music server is on 24/7. After the first electrical bill in my higher-cost neighborhood, all other machines are off unless used.

-

HDs are designed to rotate indefinitely, and startup remains the most damaging part of a HD operation. Ditto for electronics: the transitions are harder on solid state electronics than continued operations.

For example, I had a well-ventillated stereo amp (NAD) that was on 24/7 for 14 years without service. None of my on/off stereo components lasted anywhere near that long. It's the power transitions and heat that wear and tear, not the 24/7 operation.

ynnek
05-31-05, 04:37 PM
Why? The only argument I dimly heard was the wear and tear of turning things on and off.. But I never exactly got a clear technical based explanation on how thats worse than having power constantly flowing thru components. Nor real stastics..

I turn mine off when I'm not using it. But I won't wig out if I leave it on either.

I used to run those distrubted stuff.. I dunno if its still running, but this one was a contest to see who would randomly stumble on a very high bit encryption key.. the winner got a cash prize.. I remember during one cycle of the contest, all the keys were actually reported as processeed, but nobody reported a win. Therefore they had to reset the clients and have everyone start over again.. That, (and when I moved to place that made me pay for my own utilities) was when I decided not to bother with them anymore.. ;)



The damn electric company complains if I leave my PC on during peak hours. Just turning it on dims the lights in my house lol

Seriously though I believe it is better to leave your PC on then it is to shut if on and off.

Riptide
05-31-05, 04:50 PM
The theory goes that the transitions are a problem because of the heat and shrink that occurs with metals and other materials during the on/off cycles.

$n][pErMan
05-31-05, 07:38 PM
Why? The only argument I dimly heard was the wear and tear of turning things on and off.. But I never exactly got a clear technical based explanation on how thats worse than having power constantly flowing thru components.
The initial surge of power most likely has some effect. The transient as capacitors charge and all that fun stuff. Im sure the stopping and starting of HD's and bearings on parts have an effect too. I leave my linux server on 24/7 ... but because of noise and security I turn off my windows gaming machine at night. Plus.. it would be to loud to sleep with all the fans and stuff I have for OC'ing :p

nas82
05-31-05, 10:44 PM
Mine is on 24/7 and been going that way for a long time. If you got quality componets and good cooling, no reason to turn it off.

Riptide
05-31-05, 10:48 PM
If you got quality componets and good cooling, no reason to turn it off.True, but also probably a good reason to invest in a decent UPS. :)

netviper13
06-01-05, 02:36 AM
True, but also probably a good reason to invest in a decent UPS. :)

Agreed. I think if there was a way to measure how many systems have ultimately died because of dirty power, we would find that a significant number have.

Rakeesh
06-01-05, 03:33 AM
I think hard disks would probably last longer if on 24/7 because spinning up and down probably causes the most wear and tear for them. Memory chips and logic ICs (e.g. CPU's) on the other hand only have a limited number of hours of operating life expectancy...but you'd need to keep your computer online 24/7 for over 10 years to ever reach it.

In other words, don't even think twice about how long its on for, unless of course you are trying to keep your utility bills down.

msxyz
06-01-05, 07:08 AM
I switch on and off my PC several times a day. It should be noted, though, that I always use the stand-by feature and several weeks pass between a hard boot and another.

I use CPU Idle and watercooling so that my CPU never gets above 30 unless I'm playing (or doing some intensive stuff). My last PC is still working after 4 years and so is my former socket 7 K6-III which is now relegated to surfing

Strahd
06-01-05, 04:45 PM
Why? The only argument I dimly heard was the wear and tear of turning things on and off.. But I never exactly got a clear technical based explanation on how thats worse than having power constantly flowing thru components. Nor real stastics..

I turn mine off when I'm not using it. But I won't wig out if I leave it on either.

I used to run those distrubted stuff.. I dunno if its still running, but this one was a contest to see who would randomly stumble on a very high bit encryption key.. the winner got a cash prize.. I remember during one cycle of the contest, all the keys were actually reported as processeed, but nobody reported a win. Therefore they had to reset the clients and have everyone start over again.. That, (and when I moved to place that made me pay for my own utilities) was when I decided not to bother with them anymore.. ;)

The above posts explain why. The initial surge of power through cold components, not to mention the amount of power your PC uses to start up. For example, the average hard drive runs between .75 amps to 1.5 amps just to start up! The amount of power drops below half that for normal operation but just powering it up is hard on components. Keeping the components warmed and nice clean power running through them will last longer because the constant power up and power down is not there. Heat is another issue, the hotter the components run, the shorter the life span. So cooling is definetly an issue when considering leaving it on.

If you live someplace where it is hot or high humidity, then your PC may last longer shutting it off when you are not using it due to the heat. On the other hand if you are living in a cooler area or are using a cooling method other then air, then leaving it on is a definite option.

BTW, I have to agree with Riptide about a UPS. If you do leave it on, get a good UPS. I own a APC SmartUPS 1400 and I have it configured in XP to shutdown my computer etc. The PSU is the hardest hit when the power suddenly shuts off.

Just my 2 cents worth, don't spend it all in one place.... :cool:

Rakeesh
06-01-05, 05:05 PM
I use CPU Idle

Are you using windows 98 or something? All NT derived OSes (and linux as well) already exec the HLT instruction in an idle process.

Nutty
06-01-05, 05:23 PM
My work pc is a P4 2.8 and is on 24/7/365. It does cancer research when idle. If my home pc wasn't in my bedroom I'd leave that on 24/7 too.. But the slightest noise keeps me awake.. ;) I leave it on all day while I'm at work downloading stuff and running cancer research. (http://www.grid.org)

Strahd
06-01-05, 05:28 PM
My work pc is a P4 2.8 and is on 24/7/365. It does cancer research when idle. If my home pc wasn't in my bedroom I'd leave that on 24/7 too.. But the slightest noise keeps me awake.. ;) I leave it on all day while I'm at work downloading stuff and running cancer research. (http://www.grid.org)

My server currently scans for aliens while it's idle :) http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

I think I will add cancer research to it also. My server needs more to do anyway hehe.

Riptide
06-01-05, 05:39 PM
You guys should consider folding work units for the folding@home project. NVnews has a team, #13531. Come on in! :D

ynnek
06-01-05, 07:44 PM
MMMm, I understood the general logic/argument about keeping the computer 24/7, but I'm still not buying it.. What I meant is, I want data.. statistics to proves its better to keep your computer on 24/7 then turning it off/on a few times a day... Until someone runs a clean, monitored, test proving this right or wrong.

Cause I can always retort back and say, "well yea, powering up and down has its wear and tear, but thats still less than keeping your computer on 24/7" and still really prove nothing, since neither of us have any real statistics to back it up.


also be interesting to see the effects of having Folding running on the 24/7 computer.

Till then, I am going to stick with my _hunch_, its better to turn your computer off when your not using it.. (unless thats like ever 5 mins or someting rediculous like that)



The above posts explain why. The initial surge of power through cold components, not to mention the amount of power your PC uses to start up. For example, the average hard drive runs between .75 amps to 1.5 amps just to start up! The amount of power drops below half that for normal operation but just powering it up is hard on components. Keeping the components warmed and nice clean power running through them will last longer because the constant power up and power down is not there. Heat is another issue, the hotter the components run, the shorter the life span. So cooling is definetly an issue when considering leaving it on.

If you live someplace where it is hot or high humidity, then your PC may last longer shutting it off when you are not using it due to the heat. On the other hand if you are living in a cooler area or are using a cooling method other then air, then leaving it on is a definite option.

BTW, I have to agree with Riptide about a UPS. If you do leave it on, get a good UPS. I own a APC SmartUPS 1400 and I have it configured in XP to shutdown my computer etc. The PSU is the hardest hit when the power suddenly shuts off.

Just my 2 cents worth, don't spend it all in one place.... :cool:

DaveW
06-01-05, 08:40 PM
MMMm, I understood the general logic/argument about keeping the computer 24/7, but I'm still not buying it.. What I meant is, I want data.. statistics to proves its better to keep your computer on 24/7 then turning it off/on a few times a day... Until someone runs a clean, monitored, test proving this right or wrong.

Cause I can always retort back and say, "well yea, powering up and down has its wear and tear, but thats still less than keeping your computer on 24/7" and still really prove nothing, since neither of us have any real statistics to back it up.


I'm the same way. I have heard lots of similar arguments for leaving your PC on 24/7 but never any real experiments to back it up. I think a lot of it comes from people drawing analogies from mechanical devices likes cars.

Lets not forget that some mechanical components in your PC, like your hardrive, are only good for X number of hours. The infamous IBM "Deathstar" could fail within a year of 24/7 usage. If you only had your PC on 8 hours a day it would last for 3. (which still sucks but anyways)

Riptide
06-01-05, 09:09 PM
I agree that there are no studies really to back this sort of thing up one way or another. At least none that I'm aware of. That said, I think it makes sense that running them 24/7 might likely be on them in some ways.

rflair
06-01-05, 09:56 PM
For about the last 4-5 years I've run every computer I've owned 24/7 and they're all running to this day.

Just hook it up to a UPS and your good to go.

CaptNKILL
06-01-05, 10:16 PM
I turn mine off if i dont plan on using it for a few hours. No particular reason. I just dont feel that its necesarry for it to be on all day making our electric bill go up.

I do leave it on most of the night usually because im always using it... but at night and before I go to work in the morning, I turn it off.