PDF Document from nvidia commenting on crossfire?

[BrianG]

The only thing about the .pdf I take offense to is the Their Spin/The Reality. It should be Their Spin/Our Spin. :D

But honestly, I don't see too much you an argue with. ;)

But yeah, probably fake.

[Fotis]

Fake but still fun to read :angel:

[|MaguS|]

Fake, sounded like a twelve year old fighting about whos dad would win in a fight... If that came from Nvidia then I have honestly lost all respect.

[Remij]

OWA,

I apologize.

I'm so used to people saying crap like "oh man he doesn't know anything, he only has like 25 posts." and stupid things like that to me...cause quite frankly, I dont post much on forums because if I need help, more often than not, I can find my answer as someone else has already had the same problem...I dont flood forums with posts asking stuff or posting info thats been discussed 20 times if people would just search. I like to absorb knowledge...I usually just read and have a good time.

Yes, I'm aware this does not condone my actions. =/

Anyways, I am sorry. Reading your first post again, I obviously overreacted. Your second response was very mature, thank you.


Saturnotaku,

I can see you had fun ripping my post apart and quoting me as if I was talking to you. I love how you criticize me for speculating....on a forum....about graphics cards and tech that is yet to be released...... But I gotta give you credit, your arrows have 2 more -'s than mine..you're obviously superior. Perhaps you can explain to me why complaining that I can't SLI a GT and an Ultra together is not a valid complaint? What with Ultras being so hard to come by...if I had one...I would like to be able to SLI it with my GT if only it was possible.

About the <-- things you cleverly make fun of me about, I was simply pointing out that I own both company's cards. Yes I prefer ATI graphic cards as of now, but I would not hesitate to buy any brand if I feel their tech is superior.


ChrisRay,

I see what you're saying. I interpreted OWA's post directly towards me, which is where the problem started. If no one cared about what card/company I prefered, my first post would have been fine...sure I came off like an @$$, but I did not attack anyone personally to begin with... I simply stated my prefrence...and my reasoning. I do however admit I went about it the wrong way.

Nowaydude,

I hear what you're saying about the AA...You, me, and everyone else is wondering what it will be like... Sorry for acting like a jerk at your post.





Just some things...

-In the slide, "They" mention that Chipset makers are upset with Crossfire...but yet Nvidia hasen't even licenced SLI out to mobo manufacturers...except a few, that aren't even allowed to advertise it and whatnot.

-Even if it lowers to the lowest common denominator..the fact that it gives the people the flexiblity to do this is whats important. It really sucks that someone might have a 6800U, and cant find another Ultra to SLI it with...just all these GT's...so if someone wants SLI..they pretty much need to buy 2 GT's.

-What people need to remember is that while pairing 2 x800's together is practical...paring a x800 with R520 isn't really practical, but the option to do it certaintly has its benefits. The fact is people are taking this for granted...yet THE COMPETITON DOESN'T EVEN OFFER A COMPARABLE SOLUTION. People still feel the need to criticize it...it doesn't make sense.

-Why else would Nvidia want phase out the 6800's??? Because they are not capable of SLI with the new generation.
Nvidia will be starting from scratch with the 7800's, imo...not that thats a bad thing..just that no compatibility between generations means customers who picked SLI one time, might not the next time.


peace

[shabby]

The best part of that document is on page 2 and 4... next gen nvidia card coming soon :)

[FD76]

-What people need to remember is that while pairing 2 x800's together is practical...paring a x800 with R520 isn't really practical, but the option to do it certaintly has its benefits. The fact is people are taking this for granted...yet THE COMPETITON DOESN'T EVEN OFFER A COMPARABLE SOLUTION. People still feel the need to criticize it...it doesn't make sense.
peace

From what ive read.. the option to crossfire a x800 with a x850 or r520 doesn't exist. I read it to be that you have to do x800 with x800, x850 with x850 and so on... with that being the case, as it stands you actually have less "flexibility" with the ATI solution as you only have one choice per core to crossfire with. So you couldn't have a x850pro user go and just add another pro, he/she would have to fork down the big bucks for a 850xt that they dodged the first time around. Where as nv's solution, you could just go and add another gt or nu or whatever. So as it stands, for me, NV is a "more flexible" solution.

[jAkUp]

Actually from what I understand, the cards can be different, just the pipelines have to be the same. 16 Pipes with 16 pipes... etc. So combining the R520 with an x850 probably will not happen, since the R520 is rumored to have 24 or 32 pipelines.

[NoWayDude]

And possibly because R520 is thir SM3.0 chipset, and x8xx does not support SM3.0, would be rather dumb to pair 2 diferent generations together if like rumours say, the configuration defauts to the lowest denominator

[Vapor Trail]

Fake????? maybe...

Funny???? YES!!!

True???

Well, seeing that Nvidia already has SLI out and working the only reason to go the ATI route is to have the higher AA types. Since this won't even be avail for a couple of months I don't see why anyone wouldn't just wait a bit more and go G70 or R520. This looks like purely an ATI PR stunt to say "we have multi GPU too" and maybe con a few suckers into buying up the remaining X800 cards on the shelves. In the GPU business timing is everything. ATI was late with the X850's and is even later with Crossfire and it is starting to look like the R520 will be even later....

[FD76]

Actually from what I understand, the cards can be different, just the pipelines have to be the same. 16 Pipes with 16 pipes... etc. So combining the R520 with an x850 probably will not happen, since the R520 is rumored to have 24 or 32 pipelines.

any linkage on info's... everything ive read stated that you had the x800xl and that it would work with any x800 and you have the x850xt and it will work with any x850. Even if you use the pro, the cards are supposed to disable the extra pipes in order to "dumb down" to the slave card level.

[red_star]

Let's get something clear here...

First of all you can't combine X850 cards with X800 cards.

If you own X800Pro and you buy X800XT Master, it's gonna work. X800XT won't have disabled 4 pipes because of X800Pro. If the screen as a checker board is supposed to be rendered, X800XT GPU will wait a bit more till other card finishes its work. Overall the frame is going to be higher than having X800Pro with X800Pro. Afterall it wouldn't make sense at all to see X800Pro/X800Pro getting the same frame rate like X800XT/X800Pro.

ATI crossfire is not like NVIDIA SLI where both cards has to be exactly same.
ATI won't make support combination of r520 and r420 because r520 would wait too much.

The only one thing is not clear. Can ATI make one gpu to do only the geometry, and the rest of it other GPU?

[red_star]

SLI/Crossfire will help ATI and NVIDIA to gain a lot of money with 1-2 year new product cycle.

Less investment, more money. Eventually it's gonna force gaming industry to make/code the games using SLI/Crossfire features. So, ATI and NVIDIA can make a lot of money selling the same product, focusing more on other bussiness like motherboard chipset, mobile video chips, multimedia, gaming consoles and who know what else...

[Sazar]

Just because its flexible. Doesnt mean its practical.

Undoubtedly but also doesn't mean that it WON'T be practical.

As with SLi, we will have to wait and see.

[Son Goku]

From what ive read.. the option to crossfire a x800 with a x850 or r520 doesn't exist. I read it to be that you have to do x800 with x800, x850 with x850 and so on... with that being the case, as it stands you actually have less "flexibility" with the ATI solution as you only have one choice per core to crossfire with. So you couldn't have a x850pro user go and just add another pro, he/she would have to fork down the big bucks for a 850xt that they dodged the first time around. Where as nv's solution, you could just go and add another gt or nu or whatever. So as it stands, for me, NV is a "more flexible" solution.

I asked MUYA about this...and from what he could tell it was with x8xx series chips... So no, it wouldn't seem to apply.

tbh, this sounds like public relations... Where did this PDF come from? No offence, nVidia does make good products, but some of the PR I've seen in the past (well to be polite, is just that)... A PDF file about the Kyro2 (which was an internal PR doc before it became public) comes to mind...

[Vapor Trail]

SLI/Crossfire will help ATI and NVIDIA to gain a lot of money with 1-2 year new product cycle.

Less investment, more money. Eventually it's gonna force gaming industry to make/code the games using SLI/Crossfire features. So, ATI and NVIDIA can make a lot of money selling the same product, focusing more on other bussiness like motherboard chipset, mobile video chips, multimedia, gaming consoles and who know what else...

How long is the PC gaming community going to keep paying so much $$$$$$ just to play games though.

I know I'm not about to spent $1000 plus on 2 video cards just to have acceptable performance in most games. Its already bad enough that I spend $500 on a card every year and a half or so, especially when you can get the latest console for less than the cost of the average video card.

Yeah I know the rumours of PC gaming's demise have been around for years and get louder and louder every time a new console is released, but the fact remains that console gaming is growing each year and PC gaming is shrinking. Just take a look at your local games store and see the proportion of space dedicated to PC and console games shifting towards the console.


When 2 $500+ cards are required just to play games Pc gaming will be well on its way to extinction. IMO

[jAkUp]

John Carmack said that PC Gaming has not been going downhill. It just has not grown. Console gaming has balooned in the last few years, while PC Gaming stayed about the same.

Go to your local Best Buy, CompUSA or Fry's. Look how enourmous their PC Gaming selection is. Its nowhere near death.

Porshe's are not at the end of extinction because they are expensive. Same goes for PC Gaming.

[Vapor Trail]

John Carmack said that PC Gaming has not been going downhill. It just has not grown. Console gaming has balooned in the last few years, while PC Gaming stayed about the same.

Go to your local Best Buy, CompUSA or Fry's. Look how enourmous their PC Gaming selection is. Its nowhere near death.

Porshe's are not at the end of extinction because they are expensive. Same goes for PC Gaming.

The PC gaming section at my local Bestbuy is half as big as it was 3 years ago (partly because of smaller packaging), the console gaming section has doubled in that time. My local EB Games is even worse. The PC game section is about two rows on a small shelf and the entire rest of the store is now dedicated to consoles. It was exactly reversed 3 years ago.

PC gaming won't die anytime soon, but the skyrocketing expense isn't helping to be sure.

[rohit]

Well this is doubtful, coz i read on many sites, CF will support a x800pro with x850pro and a x800pro with x850xt.



*Edit* Ahh Gripe. I'm Sorry Rohit. this is what I get for trying to reply to a post when I just got home. I'm very sorry. I was trying to quote you and I hit the edit button instead. Please check your PMs for further information.

--ChrisRay

[ChrisRay]

Rohit, actually. ATI"s website before they redid it with all that flash junk. Said they could only pair cards of the same brand model. X850 models with X850 models, X800 models with X800 models. The X700 line isnt supported either.

P.S. I actually hit the edit button when I was trying to quote you. :( I goofed bad an accidently deleted your post. :(

[rohit]

May be i had the OLD info.. on the MVR thing.. now its CF..


Hey no probs abt. the editing thingy..it happens ;)

[zakelwe]

Demirug at Beyond3d indicates that the notes from the original pdf seem to indicate the "leak" came from ATi.

Regards

Andy

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23484&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=220

[peeon]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=540648#540648

The plot thickens.

[jAkUp]

Yipes! Here is the notes that supposly came from ATI

(So customers are paying for SLI \(through unused transistors\) even if they only want to run a single card...

(Internal connector which won't connect correctly if slots are off by even a few millimetres...)

(Requires two identical graphics cards...hopefully they can find them when they want them...)

(If card manufacturers make bios changes mid-production run and customers want to upgrade down the road they are SOL...)

(compatible with what?? 80 games? doesn't sound like an entire ecosystem if you ask me...)

(Nvidia is so scared of CrossFire tha they are pre-launching their G70. They know their NV4x SLI platform won't cut it!)

(They don't deny that we have better performance, they are just complaining that we have only shown 3 games to beat them with...)

(glad they scknowledge that our single card beats their single card!)

(how is this different form their split screen method?? their aren't able to scale geometry either! )

(in the desert someone stranded will drink their own sweat...doesn't mean its any good...)

(wasted transistors, enthusiasts want leading technology, not something Nvidia slaps together)

(nvidia is rushing out news of their next-gen beacuse they are scared of CrossFire)

(when Nvidia was scared by R300 they rushed news of NV30 out to the masses. They promised the world and they delivered a dog. now they are making the same great promises with G70... deja vu??)

(1 year in and they can only support ~80 games.)

[SH64]

(Internal connector which won't connect correctly if slots are off by even a few millimetres...)

Cant argue with that :| . nVIDIA need to consider a more flexable SLI bridge design ... like a dongle or wired bridge.

[jAkUp]

I dunno... I never had issues with mine...