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jAkUp
06-01-05, 10:28 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/31/news_6126725.html

AS: What do you think of the competitors' machines? Will Sony continue to dominate the gaming market?
Ken Kutaragi: Microsoft is trailing behind us, but they are not a threat. They are good at improving [on products], but we will be advancing to the next level with revolutionary technology. Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan (Karate master), and Microsoft is still not a black belt. Just like with their operating systems, they might come out with something good around the third generation of their release.

It isn't a bad thing to have a high price. When we released the original PlayStation at 39,800 yen ($368), Nintendo's Super Famicom was in the 10,000 yen range ($100 range). Still, everyone went for the PlayStation. This time, ours [the PS3] will be like a BMW that's equipped with a Ferrari engine. Nintendo's [Revolution] will be something like a new model of a family car. Some people might want it, but if it was me, I'd want to advance to the next level.

rek075
06-01-05, 10:37 AM
That's funny considering Nintendo's (non-portable) consoles have always been technically superior to Sony's.

dynasty336
06-01-05, 10:42 AM
That's funny considering Nintendo's (non-portable) consoles have always been technically superior to Sony's.

:screwy:

|MaguS|
06-01-05, 10:45 AM
always? Um The N64 was a horrible mess, Cartidge format is CRAP and the system while more bits hard horrible texture filtering (always grainy and blurry), While the PSX didn't have any it was able to produce some of the best looking games of its time (Chrono Cross , FFIX and Air Combat 3 top them all). Play RE2 on the PSX and then on the N64, sure the characters have better filtering but the FMV and backgrounds look like ass.

Ninjaman09
06-01-05, 10:46 AM
:screwy:
He's completely right. The Nintendo 64 and the Gamecube are both technically superior (and notably so) to the Playstation and Playstation 2.

Ruined
06-01-05, 11:38 AM
always? Um The N64 was a horrible mess, Cartidge format is CRAP and the system while more bits hard horrible texture filtering (always grainy and blurry), While the PSX didn't have any it was able to produce some of the best looking games of its time (Chrono Cross , FFIX and Air Combat 3 top them all). Play RE2 on the PSX and then on the N64, sure the characters have better filtering but the FMV and backgrounds look like ass.

The N64 smoked the PSX in terms of 3D rendering. The PSX's advantage was in better music/FMVs with more storage space. But besides that, the N64 was more technically advanced than the PSX and it was obvious by gameplay graphics. The Gamecube also smoked the PS2 technically, again except in the case of storage space. So yeh Nintendo's home consoles have been more advanced than Sony's in the past.

rek075
06-01-05, 11:55 AM
So anyway, back on topic. I think Ken's comments are completely unfounded since the Revolution hasn't been fully revealed. Even with specs, you can compare performance - we know this to be especially true considering this last generation of consoles.

oldsk00l
06-01-05, 12:43 PM
N64 being technically superior is a farce.

The PSX pwn3d the N64 in geometry output. You had FAR better geometric detail than N64 could dream of putting out. The N64 was very good at filtering relatively, and the extra 3D features (hw fog, fillrate mainly, texturing) but the cartridge took everything good about N64 and made it suck...badly.

Now with Revolution, mainly Nintendo couldn't afford the massive R&D that Sony/MS have expanded to and it's all they could put out.

Ninjaman09
06-01-05, 01:16 PM
but the cartridge took everything good about N64 and made it suck...badly.
That's entirely subjective. There were advantages to the cartridge format at the time.

Nintendo takes a beating all the time because of advertisers winning over the minds of us consumer w.hores. That Gamer's Manifesto thing actually had some very good points to make regarding that issue. I've never been interested in a device performing more functions than I want it to, and I'm not going to be (hence why I ditched the PSP and will most likely return to the DS).
The PSX pwn3d the N64 in geometry output. You had FAR better geometric detail than N64 could dream of putting out.
Is that why most PSX games had static backgrounds? I remember N64 games having a lot more geometry going on at once...especially in games like Conker's Bad Fur Day or Zelda: OOT. If anything they were on par. Of course, these are mere offhand observations, not based on any technical data.

ENU291
06-01-05, 01:53 PM
What I don't understand is how can that Sony rep say that Microsoft is not a threat? Sony was in the same position Microsoft is in now just a few years ago. Back in the 90s Nintendo was the King when it came to video gaming... they could do no wrong... then Sony came alone and snatched that title away from them. Sony better open their eyes and stop acting like they are untouchable!

Ninjaman09
06-01-05, 02:02 PM
What I don't understand is how can that Sony rep say that Microsoft is not a threat? Sony was in the same position Microsoft is in now just a few years ago. Back in the 90s Nintendo was the King when it came to video gaming... they could do no wrong... then Sony came alone and snatched that title away from them. Sony better open their eyes and stop acting like they are untouchable!
Tru 'dat.

I still think a video game crash is coming (and if it does, not soon enough).

evilchris
06-01-05, 02:23 PM
The Xbox console is superior to the PS2 console in every single way. If he doesn't realize this then whatever. Which system has better games is all a matter of opinion, but it's a fact Xbox is a better console than PS2 with more capabilities. Sony was the one trailing in technology with the add-on HDD, the add-on Ethernet interface which came years later, etc. In addition, what did PS2 bring to the table? Nothing but improved graphics. Xbox brought an integrated HDD, Ethernet port, and the 1st full scale online service.

He must think we've all forgotten about the Emotion Engine, and how it was going to simulate real human emotion. That's why he's now talking about "producing phenomena inside the computer" and "aging" SD content into full fledged HD content. This guy is a tool. Whatever makes him his living though...

NAZCA M12
06-01-05, 02:32 PM
Yeah, which one did you say is the oldest of the two? And shame it wasn't superior in sales :o But i'm sure uncle Bill doesn't care about that :p

Nutty
06-01-05, 02:48 PM
The PSX pwn3d the N64 in geometry output. You had FAR better geometric detail than N64 could dream of putting out. The N64 was very good at filtering relatively, and the extra 3D features (hw fog, fillrate mainly, texturing) but the cartridge took everything good about N64 and made it suck...badly.


I definitely disagree with you here. PSX technically couldn't even do 3d. All 3d on PSX was a hack by developers doing all the transform manually. Thats why the textures shimmied all over the place because there was no texture perspective correction. The N64 on the other hand had a full 3d chip made by SGI with hardware transform, and proper 3d texturing capabilities. N64 was _vastly_ superior in the 3d department to PSX.

oldsk00l
06-01-05, 03:13 PM
I definitely disagree with you here. PSX technically couldn't even do 3d. All 3d on PSX was a hack by developers doing all the transform manually. Thats why the textures shimmied all over the place because there was no texture perspective correction. The N64 on the other hand had a full 3d chip made by SGI with hardware transform, and proper 3d texturing capabilities. N64 was _vastly_ superior in the 3d department to PSX.

PSX = 390k triangles per second.

N64, 150k per second.

It's debateable as to what looks better too, ala Spyro vs Mario64, Tekken 3vs..well..any N64 game...

Vagrant Zero
06-01-05, 07:24 PM
If the n64 was superior technically it never showed it. I remember picking up OOT and liking MGSs graphics more.

As for MS being a threat, maybe in the US/Europe, but the 360 can't perform like it's predesceor in Japan if it wants to be taken as a ps3 killer.

oldsk00l
06-01-05, 08:37 PM
I think technically it's a wash, and it took a hell of a game to shine on N64...after the 4mb upgrade.

Cartridges have NO benefit over discs overall, yeah loading sucked but it was well worth it.

Rakeesh
06-01-05, 09:22 PM
You know whats funny in all of this, is that neither sony nor microsoft are trying to compete with nintendo. It's been this way for years. Nintendo is that far behind.

BTW, I have to agree with the cartridge comments here. The N64 just plain sucked, and nintendo was pretty nuts for not going with CDs. They let their ego get the better of them here, namely because they officially and publicly bashed the idea of optical storage ever being the de-facto standard for video games. I still remember the nintendo power article where they said CDs would never make it for consoles.

saturnotaku
06-01-05, 10:08 PM
I still remember the nintendo power article where they said CDs would never make it for consoles.

If you think about it, they still must feel that way. The GC doesn't use a standard CD or DVD, but rather the mini DVD format.

Edge
06-01-05, 11:47 PM
PSX = 390k triangles per second.

N64, 150k per second.
That's an extremely flawed arguement. In fact by that logic:

PS2: 66 million triangles per second

Xbox: 35 million triangles per second (yes, this is the theoretical MAX limitation, it would be impossible to do more because of the arcitecture)

Number of polygons mean nothing. There is simply no debate: the N64 was graphically more powerful than the PS1. It had far more features (texture filtering, perspective correction, anti-aliasing) and was faster under REAL-WORLD situations (the polygons per second number on the PS1 "fact" sheet is untextured and unlit...when's the last time you saw a polygon in a game that didn't have textures or lighting applied to it?). As far as what games looked best, I don't think anything on the PS1 or Saturn can come close to Conker's Bad Fur Day. That game used more effects and had better backgrounds and character models than anyone would've thought possible on a previous generation machine. And surprisingly, it didn't even use the RAM expansion pack. But obviously, the N64's limitation wasn't due to graphics technology, but storage space. But I don't think that's something that makes one console more "powerful" than the other, unless you're going by the graphic quality of FMVs and pre-rendered backgrounds.

In any case though, Sony is extremely good at making it seem like they're far ahead of the competition when in fact they're behind in many ways. Until the PS3, their only advantage has been sales and support. Their hardware wasn't superior, they didn't have as many original features, and their in-house games were rarely very spectacular. I mean really, when the PS2 was released, there wasn't a single game that really looked better than what was availible on the Dreamcast (or played better, for that matter), yet all the media was praising the console for how good it looked. It wasn't until a year or so later that the graphics really started getting better, and by then the Xbox and Gamecube were released. Most of the time, everything you hear before a console's release is just marketing hype...in the end it doesn't matter what's said about a console, only what the final result is. And that's what I'll wait for before I make any major purchases.

six_storm
06-02-05, 01:31 AM
Besides the techy mumbo jumbo (:D) I'd have to say that the PS1 and N64 were equal in my eyes. Goldeneye ruled my N64 and games like Tekken and FFVII were constantly in my PS1.

As far as which next gen console is going to be better than the other, we won't know until we get them in our hands. Can't wait to get my XBOX 360! I traded in my PS2 last week for an XBOX and I couldn't believe the difference (improvement). I've been playing a ton of XBOX within the past week and am loving it. Maybe one of the next gen consoles can have this same effect but wait . . . I'm probably going to buy them both anyways haha!

Rakeesh
06-02-05, 01:52 AM
If you think about it, they still must feel that way. The GC doesn't use a standard CD or DVD, but rather the mini DVD format.

Same technology; what they were getting at was the speed issue, so and theres virtually no difference at all. They said ROM storage would be the console storage format forever basically. Their analogy was comparing the space shuttle to a snail. They said that if anybody ever tells you that CDs were the future, you can tell them that the future doesn't belong to snails. It was a pretty long propaganda article.

Nintendo is just very short sighted in the video game business...they always have been really when you think about it, they were just able to get away with it back in the day. All it took was for the big players to step in, and they stole the scene with little difficulty. The only thing that is holding them afloat at all is their franchises that they established in the late 80's and early 90's, which some people for some reason or another simply can't live without.

Sazar
06-02-05, 01:58 AM
If you think about it, they still must feel that way. The GC doesn't use a standard CD or DVD, but rather the mini DVD format.

Tru dat :D

Ninjaman09
06-02-05, 06:53 AM
The only thing that is holding them afloat at all is their franchises that they established in the late 80's and early 90's, which some people for some reason or another simply can't live without.
Might be because they're some of the best games that come out, even now. Not that good games from new genres don't come out - I mean, look at God of War (I love that game) - but Nintendo's franchises have withstood the test of time.

ENU291
06-02-05, 07:52 AM
Nintendo reminds me of Apple. 2 companies with some real potential and great IP but their antiquated business model and stubbornness to change holds them back from becoming true leaders in their fields. Nintendo stockholders need to make some management changes before Nintendo goes under.