View Full Version : R300 TRUFORM fiasco
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=1331606137
I suggest you post this on your front page. I have posted it on www.nordichardware.se
this sucks badly and I for one want an explanation/apology from ATi officials
I can't even use TRUFORM in and old title like CS on my current rig
Athlon XP 1900+
512 MB PC2100 cas 2 max timings
Radeon 9700 Pro
VIA KT400
etc.
One possible theory is that ATi are waiting for the full release of DirectX 9 to be able to fully implement Truform on the R300.
Want to try and wait for this possibility?
Remember that the R300 is a newer architecture than a R200. They might have changed the way Truform works.
Or they could be trying to save a few transistors as someone else noted. :)
ATI LoVeR 9700
12-16-02, 10:09 PM
I heard when the Real DX9 comes out, the ATi drivers will have support for Truform back.
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
I heard when the Real DX9 comes out, the ATi drivers will have support for Truform back.
As far as I know, DirectX has nothing much to do with OpenGL :confused:
Im not here to flame, because if I end up getting one of these cards myself, Ravenshield supports T-Form, and I would like to use it if I get this card ;)
In Opengl truform is very fast.
Originally posted by Smokey
As far as I know, DirectX has nothing much to do with OpenGL :confused:
Im not here to flame, because if I end up getting one of these cards myself, Ravenshield supports T-Form, and I would like to use it if I get this card ;)
Did you look at the thread, it sucks just as bad in Open GL as it does in Direct3D.
No DirectX9 will fix it. sireric from ATi allready verified that. (And besides the current DX9 drivers doesn not fix it)
This will of course also screw up Displacement Mapping since it uses N-patches.
sireric also told me that if I wanted better performance I should get a faster processor (hey I just bought an expensive videocard..)
but according to folks at rage3d the performance doesn't really get much better even with 2.5-3.0 GHz...
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
In Opengl truform is very fast.
You tried any OpenGL game other than Quake 1&2 :p
Originally posted by Smokey
You tried any OpenGL game other than Quake 1&2 :p
NWN counts? Then yes. :)
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
NWN counts? Then yes. :)
Do you have any before/after pics?
I still haven't seen any in this game.
Found one:
No TF (http://www.hardfought.org/images/nwn/no_truform.jpg)
TF (http://www.hardfought.org/images/nwn/truform.jpg)
Well in the thread that I found the pic a guy with a 9700 Pro who's complain about the performance being to crappy to use it.
I'm not trying to say that you're not getting good performance, but are you sure it's actually in use? (Some people at the official NWN forums say that there's a problem and TRUFORM doesn't work anymore, some say it still does, I dunno)
it was a matter time for ATI lose interest in "trueform" ,
TruForm its only usefull and more noticeable in very low
quake2 stylist characters . but not so usefull for incoming games in Doom3 engines and others.
because it will not be needed.
no trueform
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/09-04-01.shtml
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/06-29-01.shtml
no trueform ,more polys
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/ogre1.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=dragon2.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/elf3.jpg
More Polygons is all we need ;)
Originally posted by Nv40
it was a matter time for ATI lose interest in "trueform" ,
TruForm its only usefull and more noticeable in very low
quake2 stylist characters . but not so usefull for incoming games in Doom3 engines and others.
because it will not be needed.
no trueform
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/09-04-01.shtml
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/06-29-01.shtml
no trueform ,more polys
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/ogre1.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=dragon2.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/elf3.jpg
More Polygons is all we need ;)
Well there's still many old games that could use TRUFORM.
And then there's Displacement Mapping.
Geometry Compression is more viable now the the control is more efficient than in the 8500-style TRUFORM etc. Which would be a much smarter way of having high polygon models.
Bigus Dickus
12-17-02, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Nv40
More Polygons is all we need ;)
I could have sworn that you have previously stated bumpmapping is all we need. :rolleyes:
I could have sworn that you have previously stated bumpmapping is all we need.
bumpmapping is a nice feature
too . its fakes DIsplacement mapping .
and it will last forever in games and in profesional graphics.
but more polygons is the real thing ,more expensive in performance , but looks much better. and for the near future ,Trueform will be nothing more than PR MArketing . ;)
Raptorman
12-17-02, 05:27 PM
TruForm works for all games I have that use it (all the games I know of that support it I have). I've taken comparison shots, too.
I know for a fact that it works in Command & Conquer Renegade. You don't need screenshots to tell in it.
Never have noticed much of a performance difference either.
Yes it's in use. You can tell by looking at peoples helmets. :) BIG improvement.
Performance seems to be smooth so I can't complain. :)
Originally posted by AnteP
Do you have any before/after pics?
I still haven't seen any in this game.
Found one:
No TF (http://www.hardfought.org/images/nwn/no_truform.jpg)
TF (http://www.hardfought.org/images/nwn/truform.jpg)
Well in the thread that I found the pic a guy with a 9700 Pro who's complain about the performance being to crappy to use it.
I'm not trying to say that you're not getting good performance, but are you sure it's actually in use? (Some people at the official NWN forums say that there's a problem and TRUFORM doesn't work anymore, some say it still does, I dunno)
StealthHawk
12-17-02, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Yes it's in use. You can tell by looking at peoples helmets. :) BIG improvement.
Performance seems to be smooth so I can't complain. :)
heh, but what resolution are you playing at? playing at low res might mask the fact that performance went down since performance at low res is already high :D
using a 3 GHz P4 + 9700 Pro my buddy gets about 50 fps in CS while using "3x" TRUFORM. put an 8500 in there and wham you get almost a twice as high fps
UT2003 is pretty unplayable with it, so is serious sam
You know the drill. ;)
320x240 all the way. :D
Originally posted by StealthHawk
heh, but what resolution are you playing at? playing at low res might mask the fact that performance went down since performance at low res is already high :D
jbirney
12-18-02, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by AnteP
UT2003 is pretty unplayable with it, so is serious sam
Keep in mind with SS the are applying truform to all the models and even on a 8500 the framerates can tank. Again truform was suppose to work only on the models it was designed for. That is of course in theory ;)
Originally posted by jbirney
Keep in mind with SS the are applying truform to all the models and even on a 8500 the framerates can tank. Again truform was suppose to work only on the models it was designed for. That is of course in theory ;)
yeah I know, besides it looks to ugly to use ;)
in any case I want my truform back
Originally posted by Nv40
it was a matter time for ATI lose interest in "trueform" ,
TruForm its only usefull and more noticeable in very low
quake2 stylist characters . but not so usefull for incoming games in Doom3 engines and others.
because it will not be needed.
no trueform
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/09-04-01.shtml
http://eqvault.ign.com/features/dailyshot/06-29-01.shtml
no trueform ,more polys
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/ogre1.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=dragon2.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/index.jsp?id=72502/elf3.jpg
More Polygons is all we need ;) Obviously you haven't played Madden 2003 with truform...probably the best use of it I've seen yet.
I can't live without truform. If you see NWN with truform it makes you drool. :o
Quake 1 and 2 as well. (yes I still play those games :p)
Anyway, mode 3 truform increases the triangles very noticeably but takes very little performance hit if any. I play with vsync so I can't see if there is any performance hit as framerate is the same as my refreshrate.
This was in Quake 2 Evolved. Using max details, shaders etc... at 1280x960 32bpp.
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