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msxyz
06-27-05, 04:48 AM
I was reading this intereting article...

http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2005/8313.html

about the development of a Cell blade, when one detail caught my attention:

The cell processor running at 2.4GHz (1 unit disabled, as PS3) consumes a whooping 100W of power. :eek:

How can they expect to stuff it inside a small console? Right, it may be a pre-production sample but it's unlikely that any refining touch in the mask will decrease that value by a substantial amount.

High power consumptions does not also require a larger cooling systems for the chips but also a larger and more expensive power supply. I don't have figures for the RSX by if it's similar to the G70 it will consume its fair share of current, too.

Our next gen consoles will going to be as noisy as a PC ? (sofahide)

sytaylor
06-27-05, 05:48 AM
Did you ever hear a dreamcast running with air cooling? They weren't quiet (although the original PS CD seek sound was god awful). They're more powerful machines so yes they're gonna draw more power, but not in the region of what the TV and surround sound system is doing at the same time.

msxyz
06-27-05, 06:22 AM
I'm more worried about reliability right now. With a PC is rather easy as you can buy a larger case, install more fans and dust removal is quite easy. But what about a closed, fancy box with only small air intakes ?

I predict a lot of death due to overheating in the next generation. :fu:

sytaylor
06-27-05, 07:53 AM
I've seen it a lot this generation, although it usually has a lot to do with how dusty the room is... Every console I've had since the Genesis has crashed on me at some point or other (except the GBA). Even the N64 did, although I figure that was due to the cartridge only being half in at the time...

|MaguS|
06-27-05, 07:59 AM
The only time I have had a console crash on me is when the game was buggy enough to crash. Never had one do it randomly when it wasn't known to.

msxyz
06-27-05, 09:18 AM
My ancient SNES and Megadrive are still in perfect working condition.

My Dreamcast died on me the past year.

All my friends with Xbox / PS2 had some kind of hardware related troubles with them; some had even to buy a replacement. It seems that assembling quality is going down the drain with the last generations.

|MaguS|
06-27-05, 09:49 AM
No its that technology is much more fragile now. The old 16bit/8bit consoles had nothing more then a motherboard back then really. Just open a Genesis and a Playstation up, look at the difference, its a huge leap...

msxyz
06-27-05, 10:00 AM
It's true what you say but it is also a matter of cost reductions. Since today consoles are more complex and expensive to produce, the industry tries to cut corners wherever it can, ie: cheaper passive components, not-so-good CD ROM drives, etc...

But advanced technology and cheap manufacturing do not mix well, imho. It's better to sell a console at 299$ that breaks after a couple of years, or to make it more expensive but that isn't plagued by a high failure rate ?

From a consumer point of view I'm not so sure about the answer...

kev13dd
06-27-05, 10:46 AM
X360 is watercooled

Maybe PS3 will be too...

K

|MaguS|
06-27-05, 10:53 AM
X360 is NOT watercooled.

ENU291
06-27-05, 11:46 AM
Not watercooled as we know it. The heat sinks on the Xbox360's processor will use heatpipe technology.

kev13dd
06-27-05, 12:00 PM
X360 is NOT watercooled.

Yes, it is

It uses H20 and Ammonia and other liquids inside of the heatpipe to cool it

Btw, H20 is water, in case you were wondering what it was, and since it's cooled by this "water" I figured, you know, use that education you recieved back in 2nd grade about compound words and combine it with "cooled"

"watercooled"

K

http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MTM3NjQsTWF5ICAgICAgLDIwMDU=

aaahhh52
06-27-05, 01:34 PM
Your using it in the most technical sense of the word douche bag. It uses heatpipe technology to cool, and as far as i know all heatpipes use some sort of liquid, so your saying if i bought a heatpipe cooler for a 6800 its now considered water cooled? So if heat pipes are considered water cooling what on earth is a real water cooling system called? You know the one thats actually pumps water?

Bad_Boy
06-27-05, 01:37 PM
water cooled or not im sure microsoft and sony will cool their hardware efficiently before putting them into mass production.

kev13dd
06-27-05, 02:28 PM
Your using it in the most technical sense of the word douche bag. It uses heatpipe technology to cool, and as far as i know all heatpipes use some sort of liquid, so your saying if i bought a heatpipe cooler for a 6800 its now considered water cooled? So if heat pipes are considered water cooling what on earth is a real water cooling system called? You know the one thats actually pumps water?

Gasp! You just stumbled upon something absolutly groundbreaking!

A word that can mean more than one thing? This is a major flaw in our English language. I think we all need to write to our politicians in Washington and tell them to make some sort of Bill about this, and get it all straightened out

I know it's heatpipe technology- note the whole "me linking you to an article all about the heatpipe technology" thing I had going on in my last post. It uses water to cool. "Watercooling". Which you blatently said it didn't. You even used caps I belive...

K

Ninjaman09
06-27-05, 03:15 PM
Not watercooled as we know it. The heat sinks on the Xbox360's processor will use heatpipe technology.
I love that term. "Heatpipe technology". You can tack on the word "technology" to anything to make it sound arcane and exciting. Not trying to knock you, just saying. Anyway, I'm going to go drink some water using swallowing technology (patent pending).

While it's true that heatpipes contain water to aid in the convection process it is disingenuous to announce to the public that it is "water cooled" in the sense that PC water cooling enthusiasts are accustomed to, because there is quite a large difference in their respective effectiveness and implementations. For the computer hardware enthusiast, "water-cooling" is a replacement for air cooling that involves water blocks, tubing, a pump(s), and a radiator to function. Microsoft made its statement referring to "water-cooling" knowing this in a rather sneaky attempt to turn the heads of us enthusiasts.
I know it's heatpipe technology- note the whole "me linking you to an article all about the heatpipe technology" thing I had going on in my last post. It uses water to cool. "Watercooling". Which you blatently said it didn't. You even used caps I belive...
Getting technical about the term doesn't mean you are right. You said it yourself, words in the English language can mean different things. What you have decided to neglect is that different word meanings are entirely dependent upon the context in which they are used. Taking into consideration what I said in my above paragraph, we can safely say that while the X-Box 360 uses heatpipes that contain some water to aid in the heat transfer process, it does not use "water cooling" as we are accustomed to it, nor as Microsoft quite clearly intended to imply.

kev13dd
06-27-05, 04:38 PM
Getting technical about the term doesn't mean you are right. You said it yourself, words in the English language can mean different things. What you have decided to neglect is that different word meanings are entirely dependent upon the context in which they are used. Taking into consideration what I said in my above paragraph, we can safely say that while the X-Box 360 uses heatpipes that contain some water to aid in the heat transfer process, it does not use "water cooling" as we are accustomed to it, nor as Microsoft quite clearly intended to imply.

My context was saying that X360 will use water cooling... which in the context that it uses water to cool stuff... is correct

What defines the water cooling "we are accustomed to"? The fact that it's the first and the only wide spread system of using water to cool? Of course the first thing to come out is going to be considered "the defacto standard". But heatpipes are practically the same as normal watercooling, just in a smaller area. Instead of hoses to bring water back to be cooled off, chemicals cause the heat to rise through a "pipe" and be cooled off. It has all the same basic parts as water cooling, just different names and fashion

Remember, not all of what your accustomed to the only thing. Watercooled is general. It means "using water to cool". It breaks down into categories. One is your tubes and pumps, another is heatpipes

K

Ninjaman09
06-27-05, 04:42 PM
which in the context that it uses water to cool stuff... is correct
My point was that the definition you used for "water-cooling" was one that was very out of context considering the nature of this forum and the direction the conversation was going.
What makes the water cooling "we are accustomed to"? The fact that it's the first?
Yes.
Heatpipes are practically the same as normal watercooling, just in a smaller area.
No, they really aren't the same. They do not use pumps or maleable tubing and are not intended as a replacement to air cooling.
Remember, not all of what your accustomed to the only thing.
That is irrelevant. You used an out-of-context definition of watercooling to belittle someone for no other reason than self-aggrandization, then hid behind technicalities.

kev13dd
06-27-05, 04:55 PM
My point was that the definition you used for "water-cooling" was one that was very out of context considering the nature of this forum and the direction the conversation was going


I started the conversation about watercooling. I think since I was the first person to say it... the conversation goes in that direction

No, they really aren't the same. They do not use pumps or maleable tubing and are not intended as a replacement to air cooling.

The watercooling system my friend has goes like this:

Pump up top. The top is cooled by fans blowing air at the water tank to cool down the water. Pump flows water through tubes, to block, then back up to pump to get cooled off

Heatpipes go like this:

Tip is up top. The tip is cooled by fans blowing air at it to cool the liquid inside. Cool liquid flows down through pipes, to the CPU, then when heated rises back up to the tip to be cooled off

The chemicals in the heatpipes act as the means of pumping. The block is built in. And the pipes are the hoses

That is irrelevant. You used an out-of-context definition of watercooling to belittle someone for no other reason than self-aggrandization, then hid behind technicalities.

The second you said different than what people are "accustomed" to, you brought assumptions into the conversation. My definition is EXACTLY what watercooling is! Using water to cool! There is no technicallity, no out of context definition

K

Vagrant Zero
06-27-05, 05:08 PM
What I'm getting from this conversation is kev here wants to call it watercooling so he can put an extra "teh leet" checkmark in the xbox360 column. It really isn't watercooling, not as ninjaman pointed out. What next kev you gonna redefine Fan Cooling, ya know, uses a fan to cool stuff? Hey check it out I'm an Nvidia Fan, if I were to blow on my harddrives would that mean they're fan cooled?

photophreak314
06-27-05, 05:14 PM
(popcorn)

kev13dd
06-27-05, 05:14 PM
What I'm getting from this conversation is kev here wants to call it watercooling so he can put an extra "teh leet" checkmark in the xbox360 column. It really isn't watercooling, not as ninjaman pointed out. What next kev you gonna redefine Fan Cooling, ya know, uses a fan to cool stuff? Hey check it out I'm an Nvidia Fan, if I were to blow on my harddrives would that mean they're fan cooled?

Nah, the most powerful will be "the leet"

Could a harddrive be fan cooled? Yes, it would be. Since fans blow air it's sometimes called air cooling, since technically it's the air doing the cooling (there ya go, I got tehcnical). Just like we don't call the conventional watecooling "pump cooling"

Strange that we call heatpipe "heatpipe cooling". I guess heatpipes are just what move the cooling stuff. It uses liquid to cool... would that mean it's called watercooling?

As long as you're blowing with a fan and not your mouth, because that would only be hot air. There are actually coolers for harddrives you can buy that have fans on top/front/below that blow onto your harddrives

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=39596&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=993560&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1457115&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=864476&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=39599&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=664351
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=706428

And I suppose if you threw a waterblock on your harddrive, it would be watercooling it. Or a heatpipe

Here's some that use heatpipes. These ones don't use water though. Isn't it funny how something can have the same name, but work differently?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1197921&CatId=495
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=872843&CatId=495

K

Vagrant Zero
06-27-05, 05:33 PM
As long as you're blowing with a fan and not your mouth, because that would only be hot air.

Sorry bud, I'm a good long distance away, that means you can't actually hear me which means you shouldn't listen to the voices in my head. Well you should listen to the one that's telling you not to bitch about semantics on a hardware forum, but only that one.

As for your example, thier not like the Xbox360, they don't exclusive rely on heatpipes as their primary connection to "Watercooling".

Anyways I'm sure your argument would be more merit were it being preached to lepers and the folks over at IGN. However, we here at NvNews are righties with pretty strigid and unchanging views, and a heatpipe isn't watercooling.

kev13dd
06-27-05, 05:35 PM
Sorry bud, I'm a good long distance away, that means you can't actually hear me which means you shouldn't listen to the voices in my head. Well you should listen to the one that's telling you not to bitch about semantics on a hardware forum, but only that one.

Anyways I'm sure your argument would hold more valid were it being preached to lepers and the folks over at IGN. However, we here at NvNews are righties with pretty strigid and unchanging views, and a heatpipe isn't watercooling.

I don't recall ever talking about the voices in your head...

I think it's rude of you to speak for all of NvNews and says "we are all stuborn". I'm part of this community too, and I for one don't like being grouped into your category either

K

Vagrant Zero
06-27-05, 05:36 PM
I think it's rude of you to speak for all of NvNews and says "we are all stuborn". I'm part of this community too, and I for one don't like being grouped into your category either

K

(whine)