10 Commandments Illegal in Court, Legal at Capitals

[CybrSage]

The US Supreme Court has ruled that displaying the 10 commandments at a Courthouse is Illegal. It has also ruled that displaying the 10 commandments on other public lands IS legal.

The U.S. Supreme Court today upheld the constitutionality of displaying the Ten Commandments on government land, but drew the line on displays in courthouses, saying they violated the doctrine of separation of church and state. The high court said displays of the Ten Commandments are not inherently unconstitutional, but exhibits should be scrutinized to determine if the government is promoting religion.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/27/scotus.commandments.ap/index.html

They said NO to the courthouses, since courthouses are places where decisions regarding the interpretation of law are made. They felt that since the 10 commandments are laws of religious nature, they should not be displayed at a courthouse.

Since all other public lands are not places of law interpretation, each incident of display needs to be evalutated to ensure it is not promoting a particular religion over another.

This is a good ruling, all in all, as it says that the only place you are not allowed to display the 10 commandments is at a place where those commandments might influence a decision.

The justices voting on the prevailing side in the Kentucky case left themselves legal wiggle room, saying that some displays inside courthouses would be permissible if they're portrayed neutrally in order to honor the nation's legal history.

This allows a showing of historical nature, but not of religious nature.

I think the decision is a good one. Our laws are based on Englands, which is based on the Christian prinicals. Denying that would be akin to denying that England ever ruled what became the US...aka stupid.

[DiscipleDOC]

I read that on fox news this morning. That's about as sad as taking prayer out of schools. We will have to reap the results of this later on...

[CybrSage]

Rather than edit while people are reading, I thought I would also add this snippet from the Supreme Court:

"Simply having religious content or promoting a message consistent with a religious doctrine does not run afoul of the Establishment clause," he said.

[CybrSage]

I read that on fox news this morning. That's about as sad as taking prayer out of schools. We will have to reap the results of this later on...


You are still allowed to pray in school. What they denied what forced prayers...with a teacher or the paging system telling you that you need to pray.

I am glad about that decision, for I fear the left in this nation too much. Had forced prayers remained, I have no doubt the left would have forced Mondays to be Protestant, Tuesdays to be Catholic, Wednesdays to be Muslim, Thursdays to be Wiccan, and Fridays to be humanists (where you pray to the teachers instead of a god).

[Zelda_fan]

I read that on fox news this morning. That's about as sad as taking prayer out of schools. We will have to reap the results of this later on...

qft

[DiscipleDOC]

You are still allowed to pray in school. What they denied what forced prayers...with a teacher or the paging system telling you that you need to pray.

I am glad about that decision, for I fear the left in this nation too much. Had forced prayers remained, I have no doubt the left would have forced Mondays to be Protestant, Tuesdays to be Catholic, Wednesdays to be Muslim, Thursdays to be Wiccan, and Fridays to be humanists (where you pray to the teachers instead of a god).
I never thought of it like that...but I still say that if we would have continued down the road we were on (praying in schools with the teachers leading the prayer), this country would not be in the mess it's in now.

Flame on. :firedevil

[Zelda_fan]

I never thought of it like that...but I still say that if we would have continued down the road we were on (praying in schools with the teachers leading the prayer), this country would not be in the mess it's in now.

Flame on. :firedevil

I think teachers should be allowed to pray in class if they want. There is nothing "infringing" about that. It's not like you're makeing the children pray. The only thing you are doing is asking that the children have enough respect to bow their heads in respect of someone elses religion. They don't have to agree with the prayer, just show respect for it.

If teachers don't have the right to pray, then why do they have the right to make children stand with their hands over their heart for the pledge? The children don't have to agree with the pledge, but they sure need to respect it. Same deal with praying imho.

[CybrSage]

I think teachers should be allowed to pray in class if they want. There is nothing "infringing" about that. It's not like you're makeing the children pray. The only thing you are doing is asking that the children have enough respect to bow their heads in respect of someone elses religion. They don't have to agree with the prayer, just show respect for it.

If teachers don't have the right to pray, then why do they have the right to make children stand with their hands over their heart for the pledge? The children don't have to agree with the pledge, but they sure need to respect it. Same deal with praying imho.

The teachers cannot, for it places undo pressure on the students. Peer pressure is Horrible in schools...what if the teacher was a Wiccan, and prayed as such in class?

[ew2x4]

I never thought of it like that...but I still say that if we would have continued down the road we were on (praying in schools with the teachers leading the prayer), this country would not be in the mess it's in now.

Flame on. :firedevil

Why do you put a lot of impact in prayer in schools? Do you honestly think that it determines how society goes about life? When you force someone into something that goes against their beliefs or lack thereof, then that just pushes them further away.

And i honestly don't think prayer should be a teacher led event in school. There should be prayer in church, in your home, in your life. But I don't beleive that you should just group your whole class together, no regard for their background, and make them one of yours.

And it's a very good point of where do we stop with that? Not all teachers are Christians. What if your child had a Muslim teacher? The rules are there to help everyone, IMO.

[Zelda_fan]

Why do you put a lot of impact in prayer in schools? Do you honestly think that it determines how society goes about life? When you force someone into something that goes against their beliefs or lack thereof, then that just pushes them further away.

I think it does.

It wouldn't be forcing anyone against their beliefs. No one is asking them to pray, just to show some respect, which imho is not an unreasonable thing to ask. Most sports teams pray before a big game at public schools. No one seems to have a problem with that.

[DiscipleDOC]

Why do you put a lot of impact in prayer in schools? Do you honestly think that it determines how society goes about life? When you force someone into something that goes against their beliefs or lack thereof, then that just pushes them further away.

And i honestly don't think prayer should be a teacher led event in school. There should be prayer in church, in your home, in your life. But I don't beleive that you should just group your whole class together, no regard for their background, and make them one of yours.

And it's a very good point of where do we stop with that? Not all teachers are Christians. What if your child had a Muslim teacher? The rules are there to help everyone, IMO.
How old are you?

[The new guy]

I dont recall prayer ever being in the public schools I attended. Graduated from high school in '79 and no prayers from 1st-12th. If prayers were allowed then like sage is saying wont all prayers have to be allowed? I guess my point is lack of prayer in school did not make me an unchristian. I still went to youth groups, church, prayed there, grace at meals at home.

I do think the "Pledge of Allegiance" should be maintained though.

[DiscipleDOC]

I dont recall prayer ever being in the public schools I attended. Graduated from high school in '79 and no prayers from 1st-12th. If prayers were allowed then like sage is saying wont all prayers have to be allowed? I guess my point is lack of prayer in school did not make me an unchristian. I still went to youth groups, church, prayed there, grace at meals at home.

I do think the "Pledge of Allegiance" should be maintained though.
The agenda of the left that is behind taking prayer out of schools is ultimately taking God out of the public arena altogether.

Also, you are right in a sense. If you do not pray with your child at home, you can not expect the govt to teach them of who God is.

[vampireuk]

The teachers cannot, for it places undo pressure on the students. Peer pressure is Horrible in schools...what if the teacher was a Wiccan, and prayed as such in class?

Then we burn the heretic and spread her ashes over salted land.

[Zelda_fan]

The agenda of the left that is behind taking prayer out of schools is ultimately taking God out of the public arena altogether.

Also, you are right in a sense. If you do not pray with your child at home, you can not expect the govt to teach them of who God is.

Yeah i know. Why is it so horrible that we allow God to be in public establishments?

[killahsin]

displaying the 10 commandments at a Courthouse is Illegal.

thats not really correct. They ruled that the people responsible for putting the commandments their previously did it to promote the religion. Which is illegal. You do realize that the ten commandments is on display in the courthouse this ruling was made at right? heh. So it's not illegal to have it on display, but how its displayed. It's really a confusing ruling, lol.

[Ninjaman09]

Why do you put a lot of impact in prayer in schools? Do you honestly think that it determines how society goes about life? When you force someone into something that goes against their beliefs or lack thereof, then that just pushes them further away.

And i honestly don't think prayer should be a teacher led event in school. There should be prayer in church, in your home, in your life. But I don't beleive that you should just group your whole class together, no regard for their background, and make them one of yours.

And it's a very good point of where do we stop with that? Not all teachers are Christians. What if your child had a Muslim teacher? The rules are there to help everyone, IMO.
All excellent points. Prayer is personal and it should stay that way. Though it is the Christian M.O. to force their beliefs on others, that is not the objective of the public school system and it never should be. If a teacher wants to spread their message, they should organize an optional after-school prayer group.

There is a difference between allowing God in schools and allowing Christians to use a government facility to push their beliefs on students.

[Zelda_fan]

All excellent points. Prayer is personal and it should stay that way. Though it is the Christian M.O. to force their beliefs on others, that is not the objective of the public school system and it never should be. If a teacher wants to spread their message, they should organize an optional after-school prayer group.

There is a difference between allowing God in schools and allowing Christians to use a government facility to push their beliefs on students.

not that the government should require students to pray, but if a teacher wants to start class with prayer, they should be allowed to imho.

[Ninjaman09]

not that the government should require students to pray, but if a teacher wants to start class with prayer, they should be allowed to imho.
Can you tell me what the difference is? Maybe I'm not thinking of this in the same way you are, but to me, a teacher starting a prayer during class is exactly the same as government-mandated prayer. There is a time and a place for prayer and it is not in the classroom.

[DiscipleDOC]

Can you tell me what the difference is? Maybe I'm not thinking of this in the same way you are, but to me, a teacher starting a prayer during class is exactly the same as government-mandated prayer. There is a time and a place for prayer and it is not in the classroom.
A teacher is NOT a govt employee. If a teacher wanted to talk to a class about the birth of Jesus Christ on Christmas (which is an established holiday) that teacher can lose his/her job. Are you going to honestly sit there and say that's justified?

[Ninjaman09]

A teacher is NOT a govt employee.
A teacher works for the public school system, which is a service provided and managed by the government, hence is most certainly a government employee.
If a teacher wanted to talk to a class about the birth of Jesus Christ on Christmas (which is an established holiday) that teacher can lose his/her job. Are you going to honestly sit there and say that's justified?
It is one thing to discuss the nature of a holiday that is both religious and secular depending on your background, than to ask a class to join together in prayer to God even if there are students who do not believe in the same god, or any god for that matter. Christmas can mean different things to different people but prayer is intensely personal and has no place in a classroom. Like I said before, if a Christian teacher wishes to offer an optional prayer group outside of regularly scheduled classes, I would have no objection.

[sytaylor]

A teacher is NOT a govt employee.

So wait, where does their cash come from? General taxation right? That at worst makes them civil servants.

[saturnotaku]

A teacher may not technically be a "government employee" but their salaries are paid with public/tax money, so they should be treated as such.

I would have no problem with a teacher saying - if you wish to say a prayer before we start class, you are welcome to do so. But for the teacher to lead a prayer based on his or her faith, I believe is wrong.

[sytaylor]

So like the school I went to where if you didn't do as the teacher told you in mass you would be in detention? That ain't good right?

[killahsin]

Actually if a teacher wanted to pray without aksing others to pray, that should be fine. If a student wants to pray that should be fine. Personal liberties shouldnt be sacrificed.