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datamage
07-04-05, 08:01 PM
I've been noticing on quite a few games that I'm getting shimmering in the distance and some texture aliasing in places. It's been the most noticeable in GTA: SA. I bring this up cause on my X800 things didn't look this 'messy' for lack of a better word.

I currently have the following settings in the NV CP;

AA: App Controlled
AF: 8x
Image Setting: High Quality
Force Mipmaps: None (I've tried Bi/Trilinear w/no change.)
Conformant Texture Clamp: On
Extension Limit: Off
Trilinear Opt: Off
Anisotropic Mip Opt: Off
Anisotropic Sample Opt: Off
Gamma Correct AA: On
Transparency AA: Multisampling
Negative LOD Bias: Clamp (Have tried Allow and no change it seems)

I'm using the 77.72 drivers and was wondering if this is just the way it is. I have a sample GTA movie I can upload as an example, if need be. (~50mb)

- D.

nVidiaGuru
07-04-05, 08:56 PM
one thing you might try is turning Image Setting down to Quality then make sure the optimizations are off

Beng
07-04-05, 11:06 PM
I bring this up cause on my X800 things didn't look this 'messy' for lack of a better word.

It was one of the reasons i sold my 6800GT, and kept my X800. Despite turning off all opts. and so, not all the textures are getting AA with Nvidia.

Here 2 short movies from Joint Operations. Look at the shadows on the road in the distance, and in the middle of the bonnet:

Nv6800 4xAA/8xAF (http://members.chello.nl/h.appel1/Nv6800JointOps.avi)

AtiX800 4xAA/8xAF (http://members.chello.nl/h.appel1/AtiX800JointOps.avi)

ChrisRay
07-04-05, 11:23 PM
I have noticed a slight shimmering issue with the G70 too. One thing that needs to be noted that this is not similar to the Nv4x shimmering. Its a completely different issue. With Nv4x you would see mipmap transistions which appear to roll in the distance. With the G70 its lapping shimmer that randomly occurs over entire terrain distance. I set my LoD to .3 + And clamped my textures and that seems to have it under control. Its still improved from the Nv4x IMO. I mainly noticed this in WoW though.

datamage
07-05-05, 12:39 AM
Chris,

Where do I modify the LoD? Do I need coolbits?

Beng, Yea, I knew something was different from my X800, ah well.

- D.

gram_vaz
07-05-05, 12:41 AM
^ rivatuner.

datamage
07-05-05, 12:42 AM
^ rivatuner.

Thanks, getting it now.

SH64
07-05-05, 02:09 AM
Same issue as this ?
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=646205#post646205

if so then its happening with the GF6 & 7s alike.

ChrisRay
07-05-05, 02:19 AM
Thats not what I saw in WOW. I have definately seen an issue like that on my Geforce 6800 before.

datamage
07-05-05, 02:22 AM
SH64,

Yeah, while the quality of that video isn't the greatest, that's how my GTA is looking I believe. Honestly, the shimmering isn't really bad in any other game, even if there's some more than my X800, it's not that big a deal. It's only in GTA: SA (so far) that it really stands out. Stuff is crawling all over the place. You can see aliasing/shimmering across the cracks of sidewalks, it's really distracting. I wouldn't go back to my X800 though, GTA: SA flies on my 7800 even with effects set to 'high quality.' On my x800 that would kill performance.

- D.

SH64
07-05-05, 02:26 AM
SH64,

Yeah, while the quality of that video isn't the greatest, that's how my GTA is looking I believe. Honestly, the shimmering isn't really bad in any other game, even if there's some more than my X800, it's not that big a deal. It's only in GTA: SA (so far) that it really stands out. Stuff is crawling all over the place. You can see aliasing/shimmering across the cracks of sidewalks, it's really distracting. I wouldn't go back to my X800 though, GTA: SA flies on my 7800 even with effects set to 'high quality.' On my x800 that would kill performance.

- D.

Yep thats what i had a while ago & no one seemed to care when i mentioned it :P
in my case though i prefered the better IQ over the performance so i'm playing it right now on the X800 until nVIDIA fixs this ugly issue.

ChrisRay
07-05-05, 03:24 AM
SH64,

Yeah, while the quality of that video isn't the greatest, that's how my GTA is looking I believe. Honestly, the shimmering isn't really bad in any other game, even if there's some more than my X800, it's not that big a deal. It's only in GTA: SA (so far) that it really stands out. Stuff is crawling all over the place. You can see aliasing/shimmering across the cracks of sidewalks, it's really distracting. I wouldn't go back to my X800 though, GTA: SA flies on my 7800 even with effects set to 'high quality.' On my x800 that would kill performance.

- D.

Datamage. Have you tried adjusting the LoD any? Also you mentioned you played WoW in another thread. How have your impressions been there? Good testing place for texture filtering in WoW is ashenvale following the road.

Ninjaman09
07-05-05, 10:22 AM
I've noticed awful shimmering in WoW despite the LOD Clamp being on, and I've noticed shimmering in most of my other games as well. It's very obnoxious.

Zelda_fan
07-05-05, 12:22 PM
dosen't useing SSAA get rid of texture shimmering?

Ninjaman09
07-05-05, 01:04 PM
No. The texture shimmering is caused by some sort of error regarding the anisotropic filtering. It only happens with anisotropy turned on. It appears to happen in the areas where the texture stages change.

Zelda_fan
07-05-05, 01:10 PM
It's just that I remember with my old Voodoo5 that texture shimmering was cured by turning on FSAA.

OWA
07-05-05, 02:04 PM
dosen't useing SSAA get rid of texture shimmering?
That helped a lot on the 6800 series when the shimmering issue was really bad. I didn't notice any shimmering in the later drivers though (with the 6800 series). I haven't had time to look for such stuff with the 7800 series yet.

Ninjaman09
07-05-05, 02:27 PM
They pretty much eliminated texture shimmering on the 6800 series with the LOD Bias clamp. Doesn't seem to have any effect with the 7800.

Beng
07-05-05, 10:55 PM
They pretty much eliminated texture shimmering on the 6800 series with the LOD Bias clamp. Doesn't seem to have any effect with the 7800.

There are 2 kinds of "shimmering". One is a sort of dot crawling, where the clamp indeed helps. But with the other kind of shimmering, aliased textures, the clamp doesn't help.

killahsin
07-05-05, 11:57 PM
There are 2 kinds of "shimmering". One is a sort of dot crawling, where the clamp indeed helps. But with the other kind of shimmering, aliased textures, the clamp doesn't help.

I assume your refering to the aliasing shimmer in bump/offset mapping and so forth?

Ninjaman09
07-06-05, 08:21 AM
There are 2 kinds of "shimmering". One is a sort of dot crawling, where the clamp indeed helps. But with the other kind of shimmering, aliased textures, the clamp doesn't help.
I'm referring to anisotropy crawling. I am aware of the difference between the two. The shimmering I am seeing is the exact same shimmering I saw before the 6800 got its fix from the LOD Bias clamp. Turning it on and off has no effect with the 7800.

tomilius
07-23-05, 02:25 AM
Negative LOD Bias Clamp doesn't help me. I have a 6600GT (Leadtek WinFast A6600GT TDH). While shimmering is reduced on High Quality, and with GTA: SA the aliasing is gone when AF is set to Application Preference, I even notice some shimmering with trilinear filtering, also at high quality, even with trilinear optimizations off. And when I say shimmering I mean "dot jumping." On certain textures, that is, it seems to be more of a dot jump than crawl (the dots get kind of rearranged as you move so it looks like it's shimmering or flickering and is distracting). But if it's like a line on a texture then it would be a crawl. And I mean on textures, not on objects, because that would be solved with AA. Unless it's supersampling, and then it's just greatly reduced (pushes shimmering further into the distance).

People say they only see it in GTA: SA; I think they only notice it in GTA: SA. I still see it in (all) other games if I'm looking far enough into the distance, unless there's just mipmapping and not AF and there it, I believe, occurs on the boundaries between blends most often.

This here is with trilinear filtering, High Quality:
http://usera.imagecave.com/tomilius/HL2-shimmering-area.JPG

The area I've circled, when I move toward or away from it, is an area that shimmers, or "dot crawls" (like the pixels are sliding and wrapping), and that's not even necessarily when it's in the process of blending to another... mipmap part thingy. It's all the time when I'm greater than a certain distance away. I even notice it with bilinear filtering when I'm a certain distance away (amidst all of the blending I can see it even when it's not from the blending, despite how blurry that should make it I still see the dot crawling).

While I can't say whether or not the trilinear shimmering is characteristic of the GeForce 6/7 Series, I know the type of shimmering I've displayed did not occur on my Ti4200.

More stuff is said or being said about this here:
nV News Forums - Drivers use nearest neighbor filtering in GTA:SA for me! (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141364)

And here:
Guru3D.com Forums - 6600GT has too much shimmering! (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141364)

And here:
nV News Forums - Edge and texture aliasing artifacts (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35592)
nV News Forums - Will Nvidia EVER fix the shimmering problem? (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38888)

Seph gPu
07-23-05, 12:32 PM
I've been noticing on quite a few games that I'm getting shimmering in the distance and some texture aliasing in places. It's been the most noticeable in GTA: SA. I bring this up cause on my X800 things didn't look this 'messy' for lack of a better word.

I currently have the following settings in the NV CP;

AA: App Controlled
AF: 8x
Image Setting: High Quality
Force Mipmaps: None (I've tried Bi/Trilinear w/no change.)
Conformant Texture Clamp: On
Extension Limit: Off
Trilinear Opt: Off
Anisotropic Mip Opt: Off
Anisotropic Sample Opt: Off
Gamma Correct AA: On
Transparency AA: Multisampling
Negative LOD Bias: Clamp (Have tried Allow and no change it seems)

I'm using the 77.72 drivers and was wondering if this is just the way it is. I have a sample GTA movie I can upload as an example, if need be. (~50mb)

- D.

It's really annoying, I know where your coming from. I had a ati card before my 6800gt and the AA and AF was so much better. Nvidia really blows in this part of the "features" catergory. If sm3.0 wasnt so big in todays games and so playable on my 6800 gt, id probably go back to ati. (Yes, im being sarcastic)