7800GTX vs RSX

[nicorulez]

So guys, David Kirk has gone on record that the RSX is really just a super tweaked G70 on a smaller die process. So, yeah, it is faster than a single 7800GTX. However, how will the PS3 compare tomorrow (figuratively) compared to a FX57 overclocked to 3.0-3.2 GHZ with 2GB high-end RAM and 7800GTX SLI (consider BFG speeds). I have a feeling this rig could run any of the demos (including Killzone) in realtime. What do you guys think. Is the power of PS3 really here a year early if you have the $$$?

[Razor1]

Jen-Hsun Huang already stated that the 7800 gtx will be slower then the RSX but when the PS3 is launched thier will be a faster desktop chip then the RSX.

[nicorulez]

Razor, that is not my question. I clearly stated that it is known that the RSX is faster than one 7800GTX. I am asking about the RSX compared to a 7800GTX SLI setup. Come on guys, what do you think. If not PS3, then compare it to the XBox 360. This is all in fun. I just want to know what the more informed members of the board surmise surrounding this issue. :D

[-=DVS=-]

I think programmable 48 pipe monster R500(xbox 360) will pwn everything :D

[Razor1]

Razor, that is not my question. I clearly stated that it is known that the RSX is faster than one 7800GTX. I am asking about the RSX compared to a 7800GTX SLI setup. Come on guys, what do you think. If not PS3, then compare it to the XBox 360. This is all in fun. I just want to know what the more informed members of the board surmise surrounding this issue. :D


ah putting it that way hehe, yeah desktops should kill these consoles. Most game developers for the xbox 360 and ps 3 won't be using the full capablilies of the 3 cpu's. Graphics power wise I think with heavy SM3 shaders like HDR the ps 3 will do better then a 7800GTX unless developers use multiple rendertargets for HDR which will help with SLi HDR performance.

[Banko]

I think programmable 48 pipe monster R500(xbox 360) will pwn everything :D
You do realize 48 pipe unified shader pipes aren't the pipes of today? For all you know it might perfect like a 24 piper.

[ninelven]

erased

[-=DVS=-]

You do realize 48 pipe unified shader pipes aren't the pipes of today? For all you know it might perfect like a 24 piper.

Everyone who reads The inq knows that :rolleyes: If you know more feel free to enlighten us.
But from all the rumors its 48 programmable pipes , in theory could be 24 for shaders 24 for vertex work , compared to 7800 16rop 24s 10v . maybe it got 48 rops to :D

[nutball]

Everyone who reads The inq knows that :rolleyes: If you know more feel free to enlighten us.
But from all the rumors its 48 programmable pipes , in theory could be 24 for shaders 24 for vertex work , compared to 7800 16rop 24s 10v . maybe it got 48 rops to :D

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/

Three banks of sixteen "pipes", each bank can do either vertex or pixel shading depending on demand.

[ninelven]

erased

[fivefeet8]

"There are 3 parallel groups of 16 shader units each. Each of the three groups can either operate on vertex or pixel data. Each shader unit is able to perform one 4 wide vector operation and 1 scalar operation per clock cycle. Current ATI hardware is able to perform two 3 wide vector and two scalar operations per cycle in the pixel pipe alone. The vertex pipeline of R420 is 6 wide and can do one vector 4 and one scalar op per cycle. If we look at straight up processing power, this gives R420 the ability to crunch 158 components (30 of which are 32bit and 128 are limited to 24bit precision). The Xbox GPU is able to crunch 240 32bit components in its shader units per clock cycle. Where this is a 51% increase in the number of ops that can be done per cycle (as well as a general increase in precision), we can't expect these 48 piplines to act like 3 sets of R420 pipelines. All things being equal, this increase (when only looking at ops/cycle) would be only as powerful as a 24 piped R420."

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=7

"ATI is predicting that developers will use lots of very small triangles in Xbox 360 games. As engines like Epic's Unreal Engine 3 have shown incredible results using pixel shaders and normal maps to augment low geometric detail, we can't tell if ATI is trying to provide the chicken or the egg. In other words, will we see many small triangles on Xbox 360 because console developers are moving in that direction or because that is what will run well on ATI's hardware?

[Red_Shift]

1 scalar operation per clock cycle seems a bit low.

[T-Spoon]

You do realize 48 pipe unified shader pipes aren't the pipes of today? For all you know it might perfect like a 24 piper.

ATi has stated that performance of the 48 unified shader pipes in R500 will roughly be equal to the performance of a 'regular' 32 pipes card.

Whilst the architecture of the 360 is not comparable to a PC design, Rene said that the raw performance would be roughly equivalent to a 32-pipeline PC graphics card.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/25/ati_xbox_360_london/

[MUYA]

I thought this was a G70 vs RSX thread? :)

[nicorulez]

Number nine, mea culpa. You were correct. I am shocked that Sony is using this gen's tech; regardless how awesome it is. In a year, Nvidia and ATI will have chipsets that absolutely blow away the RSX/G70. However, as was pointed out, the consoles have very little overhead (OS, etc) and are a fixed platform. I would think that if everybody (including granny) had a FX57 or similar with SLI G70's that games like the Killzone demo would not be uncommon. Oh well, guess we still have to program for the lowest common denominator. Next time ninelven, I am going to pay much more attention to your posts. :D

[harl]

I thought this was a G70 vs RSX thread? :)

we don't known how exactly RSX is but we
known it will have higer core and lower RAM bandwith.

Any one with G70 has tried to lower the RAM to 700 and run
benchmarks to see the performance lost ;)

(of course RSX has other advantages as CELL with high speed bus
and the optimizations of a videconsole of runing directly on hardware
without drivers) :angel:

[MUYA]

we don't known how exactly RSX is but we
known it will have higer core and lower RAM bandwith.

Any one with G70 has tried to lower the RAM to 700 and run
benchmarks to see the performance lost ;)

(of course RSX has other advantages as CELL with high speed bus
and the optimizations of a videconsole of runing directly on hardware
without drivers) :angel:
erm I think you didn't get the jist of my post.

It was in the capacity of moderators of these forums that I created that post.

[Graphicmaniac]

Looking the past PS2 had 20 times vertex power of PSX.

PS3, for me, will have 20 times vertex power of PS2

PS2 is able of 75/70 million poligons/sec.
so i think PS3 will be able of 1,40 billion

7800gtx is able of 800 million poligons/sec or something more now i forgot ..
it runs at 430/8 pipes

so if is true rsx runs at 550 or more this means that rsx should have 11 pipes but i guess will just be 10 optimized and higher clocks.

If this will be true then, basing on David Kirck's opinion that the future is on shading power, i think shading power will improve even more so i think RSX will have 32 pipes.

so my idea is:

32 pixel pipelines
10 vertex pipelines
600 Mhz GPU
process 0,09

and don't forget the eDRAM :p

[harl]

so my idea is:

32 pixel pipelines
10 vertex pipelines
600 Mhz GPU
process 0,09

and don't forget the eDRAM :p

Nobody talks of eDRAM for RSX.
Kutaragy says he wants a lot fo RAM and 256 MB of eDRAM
was imposible.

I agree that it should have at least 16 or 24 MB of eDRAM
for Frame and Z buffers (22.5GB/s it's too low
ironycaly PS2 have only 4 MB of eDRAM but at 50 GB/s)

Anandtech especulates, that "steal" bandwith from the CELL
or even make use of CELL's spu for Vertex Shader procesing

[killahsin]

offloading vertex to secondary cores is going to be big in the future heed me words. along with a bunch of other silly things.

[Seph gPu]

I think Revolution is the only system with eDRAM?

[Yabba]

I think Revolution is the only system with eDRAM?

What about the 10 MB eDRAM on the R500 ?

btt
the RSX is a G70 @ 0.09nm, clocked at 550mhz. Less heat, more/even powerful as G70 in your PCs.
NVs statemend of "having twice the performance of NV45" says that there must be at least 24 shaderpipes.

[Holy Smoke]

If memory serves me correctly, both the Revolution and xbox360 will have edram, with the Revolution having some megabytes more of it.

[Yabba]

If memory serves me correctly, both the Revolution and xbox360 will have edram, with the Revolution having some megabytes more of it.

Both, NRev and X360, have a ATI based VPU. Thats the point

[mattyo]

If memory serves me correctly, both the Revolution and xbox360 will have edram, with the Revolution having some megabytes more of it.
Nintendo havent announced any spec yet. They did confirm that Revolution wont be HD, so will it require edram at all ? Who knows. :confused: