Patriot Act passed in the house again

[evilchris]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/21/patriot.act/index.html

Nice. The only people who have anything to fear from the Act are terrorists and criminals.

[Riptide]

How many terrorists has this thing caught for us again?

[saturnotaku]

Nice. The only people who have anything to fear from the Act are terrorists and criminals.

With all the gloom and doom that the leftist advocacy groups preach, that's not what they would have you believe. But when you ask them exactly what rights and freedoms they have lost as a result of this act, or what a good, law-abiding citizen would have to fear from it, they'll either call you a fascist, turn tail and run or both.

[evilchris]

How many terrorists has this thing caught for us again?

The fact that there have been no attacks in the US since 9/11 does not mean none have been attempted. The Act makes it more difficult for terrorists to operate. The Act also gives the power to freeze bank accounts and funding for terrorists, which has happened and has been successful. It isn't just about apprehending the people, it's also about making it extremely difficult for them to operate.

[Rakeesh]

How many terrorists has this thing caught for us again?

About a year ago the figures were at 571 convictions give or take (I don't remember the exact number) specifically related to terrorism. It is no doubt higher now.

[Riptide]

About a year ago the figures were at 571 convictions give or take (I don't remember the exact number) specifically related to terrorism. It is no doubt higher now.Link?

[Rakeesh]

Oops, my bad, the number was 179 (my memory is way off.) Anyways, thats still a high number IMO:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200407/ai_n9459120

Even if there were only 10 convictions, that would more than justify it IMO.

This is a good thing though. It puts to rest the constant liberal argument that none of the legislators actually read the patriot act when they voted it into law.

[Riptide]

Interesting...
A new Justice Department report says the Patriot Act has been instrumental in 310 terrorism arrests and 179 terror-related convictions since Sept. 11, 2001.
Though it doesn't name which report this was. Nor does it go into very much detail regarding many of these cases and what "terror related" actually means in this context.

BTW, thankyou for taking the time to dig that up.

[netviper13]

Interesting...

Though it doesn't name which report this was. Nor does it go into very much detail regarding many of these cases and what "terror related" actually means in this context.

BTW, thankyou for taking the time to dig that up.

FWIW they're not going to give details on most of the cases. The majority of cases involving surveillance of terrorists are going to wind up in the FISA court, in which all proceedings and evidence are classified.

[joltcola]

FWIW they're not going to give details on most of the cases. The majority of cases involving surveillance of terrorists are going to wind up in the FISA court, in which all proceedings and evidence are classified.

That is one of the issues that I have with Patriot Act, is the abuse of power. In a perfect world, The Patriot Act can help state and federal investigators do their job. But we don't live in that perfect world and abuse does happen. That is what makes laws like this and others such a threat to rights. Its double layer protection. We have laws to protect us from others, as well as our own government. The Patriot Act seems to do one, but not the other. There is alot of grey area, and my statement is cut & dry, but you get the point.

-- jolt

[netviper13]

That is one of the issues that I have with Patriot Act, is the abuse of power. In a perfect world, The Patriot Act can help state and federal investigators do their job. But we don't live in that perfect world and abuse does happen. That is what makes laws like this and others such a threat to rights. Its double layer protection. We have laws to protect us from others, as well as our own government. The Patriot Act seems to do one, but not the other. There is alot of grey area, and my statement is cut & dry, but you get the point.

-- jolt

I don't have a problem with FISA trials when they are used as originally included, which is described by the acronym: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. If you are a non-citizen foreigner in the US for any reason you should not expect all the rights of citizenship. I do have a problem, however, with FISA being applied to American citizens.

The idea of a secret court with classified proceedings, where you can't even confront the evidence against you because it is also classified, warrantless searches and wiretaps, etc. is so un-American that it is almost unbelievable. Amazing the lengths people will take their comparisons to Big Brother when you start talking welfare, but stay silent as can be when you talk about secret courts.

[Riptide]

The Supreme Court has found that by certain conduct a person forfeits their right to citizenship. That is how Bush has made his case for scumbags like Jose Padilla. This has come up in the past, I believe they are using the Quiren case (sp?) here. When he chose to become an unlawful combatant then his citizenship basically went bye-bye.

BTW, have a read through here.
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/u_myths.htm
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm

[Ninjaman09]

With all the gloom and doom that the leftist advocacy groups preach, that's not what they would have you believe. But when you ask them exactly what rights and freedoms they have lost as a result of this act, or what a good, law-abiding citizen would have to fear from it, they'll either call you a fascist, turn tail and run or both.
This was actually the subject of a rather frustrating conversation with my friends the other night. I was pretty much told that in supporting this act I was a "nazi" and that I want to oppress the American public. When I replied that the act only affects criminals, they got mad and started yelling, "Facist! Oppressor!". I was then compared to Hitler. I never got a chance to speak, and I never even got to finish a whole statement before being interrupted. Ahh, it's fun to have a bunch of flaming liberals for friends. Unfortunately most of my age group are massive liberals and there isn't much I can do about it. :rolleyes:

[Ninja Prime]

This was actually the subject of a rather frustrating conversation with my friends the other night. I was pretty much told that in supporting this act I was a "nazi" and that I want to oppress the American public. When I replied that the act only affects criminals, they got mad and started yelling, "Facist! Oppressor!". I was then compared to Hitler. I never got a chance to speak, and I never even got to finish a whole statement before being interrupted. Ahh, it's fun to have a bunch of flaming liberals for friends. Unfortunately most of my age group are massive liberals and there isn't much I can do about it. :rolleyes:

Use your ninja might to slay them, all of them!!! Or laugh at them with ninja-like amusement, that works too.

[netviper13]

Unfortunately most of my age group are massive liberals and there isn't much I can do about it. :rolleyes:

Join the Dark Side, and together we can all rule the world, MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!.

[KerrAvon]

This was actually the subject of a rather frustrating conversation with my friends the other night. I was pretty much told that in supporting this act I was a "nazi" and that I want to oppress the American public. When I replied that the act only affects criminals, they got mad and started yelling, "Facist! Oppressor!". I was then compared to Hitler. I never got a chance to speak, and I never even got to finish a whole statement before being interrupted. Ahh, it's fun to have a bunch of flaming liberals for friends. Unfortunately most of my age group are massive liberals and there isn't much I can do about it. :rolleyes:

Well, now you know how a lot of people feel when they post in here.