View Full Version : the person london police shot dead was not connected to bombings
well it's official now...the guy was not connected to the bombings in any way.... and more interesting is that they werent investigating a specific apartment but rather a whole block of apartments.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4711021.stm
A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed.
A Scotland Yard statement said the shooting was a "tragedy" which was regretted by the Metropolitan Police.
The man was shot dead after police followed him from a south London flat to Stockwell Tube station on Friday.
Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus.
The statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.
"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.
"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."
The statement confirmed the man was followed by police from a block of flats that was under surveillance.
The man's death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.
vampireuk
07-23-05, 11:41 AM
And yet the idiot ran :rolleyes:
noicant
07-23-05, 11:51 AM
maybe a drug runner, so would deserve it anyway
Suddenly it's clear why the British police aren't usally armed. Triggerhappy?
A baton and a funny hat is just fine.
people do stupid things all the time....there have been cases where innocent people have pled guilty to crimes they did not commit.....was this a guy moron....definetly.... but it's possible to see why he did what he did....let's say he's been harassed by people on the subway who've threatened him saying they are making a citizens arrest, the next day he's leaving his house, he might have seen somone following him that makes him nervous, he's thinks he's safe in a crowded area and people who have been following most probably not in uniform pull out a gun and say they are cops....i have my doubts about how many people would take them at their word after those events...
vampireuk
07-23-05, 01:13 PM
Nothing like 100% pure grade bullsh*t speculation huh? When you hear the words armed police stop, can you guess what you do? You stop!
Suddenly it's clear why the British police aren't usally armed. Triggerhappy?
A baton and a funny hat is just fine.
Well done arm chair jockey, comment on something you have no idea about.
Demigod
07-23-05, 01:34 PM
It should be noted that the "police" that followed him were plain clothed. What would you do if five guys started yelling at you and pulled guns?
It is a tragedy and thie investigation will hopfuly shed some light on what really happened. Holding him down and shooting him five times, as the witness describe, is not what you do to someone why has a bomb belt, he should have been shot before they got near him.
No matter the justification it is a mess. If he had a bomb and they left shooting him so long many people could have died. If they had hold of him as described he could not have set a bomb off, but the risk was there. If they knew he had no bomb then he was executed, a very messy situation.
vampireuk
07-23-05, 01:36 PM
It should be noted that the "police" that followed him were plain clothed. What would you do if five guys started yelling at you and pulled guns?
"Armed Police Stop" this would have been shouted clearly several times before he even set off running, like I said he got himself killed.
Darth Rancid
07-23-05, 01:51 PM
Did the police officers identify themselves as police officers before killing him?... Swedish media is contradicting itself on this point... and it is a very important point.
As Vampire seem to imply, running from police officers who shout "STOP" under the recent circumstanses is stupid enough to warrant a Darwin Award...
Demigod
07-23-05, 02:20 PM
"Armed Police Stop" this would have been shouted clearly several times before he even set off running, like I said he got himself killed.
They dont actually have to say that if they think the target could panic and detonate the bomb
"It is not true to say that police officers must identify themselves or shout a warning when confronting a suspect believed to pose a grave and imminent threat."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4708373.stm
vampireuk
07-23-05, 04:11 PM
Sorry to tell you but Armed police always identify theirselves, like I said the guy has killed himself by running from the police.
that they identified themselves is speculation on your part...... and from what they are reporting in the news no warning was given at all
noicant
07-23-05, 05:16 PM
Out of interest from that BBC link posted above:
Their advice is that if a suspect clearly has no intention of surrendering, the armed officer should attempt to aim for the head or lower limbs to prevent a suicide belt being detonated.
I can't figure this out. Why would shooting the lower limbs help? (and why didn't they just say "legs", its not like they might encounter a suicide trout or something)
I carry a gun for a living but hell if I wouldn't run if two dudes pulled out guns and started chasing me and I would even fire on them being that they didnt identify themselfs as police. Wearing a coat my seem odd but in NY I have seen old ladies in breakers and homeless in there winter coats so thats not uncommon to me and I am sure many other NY'ers. Even in light of the recent events it was a terrible over reaction and I am sure if it was an ordinary British citizen or say a American tourist there would outrage.
It's a really difficult position. You save lives if he is involved and if not, he is collatarel damage. He made himself out as a target by running from the accounts. That much has been established thus far.
There will be an investigation and more details will emerge obviously.
Son Goku
07-23-05, 08:57 PM
It's a really difficult position. You save lives if he is involved and if not, he is collatarel damage. He made himself out as a target by running from the accounts. That much has been established thus far.
This is where I disagree. Suggestion is comming forth that the police might not have identified themselves. Problem is, undercover, and without identification; there isn't reason to assume he knew they were cops for sure.
Not sure what he thought he was running from... An investigation is good though, and it's a very positive sign the peeps at Scottland Yard are willing to look into this matter and get to the bottom of it.
There was indication I saw somewhere that in part their investigations were to help ascertain if their policies in such matters should be reconsidered, but not finding such mention right now...
The boy also jumped over the ticket booth. He just did not protect himself as he should, as most Londoners would of. I think he didn't understand what he should do. He got frightened and made bad choices.
Son Goku
07-23-05, 09:43 PM
Mike, this is an account I had seen posted earlier... It certainly does fit the "running scared" idea...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2004600000-2005330912,00.html
A SHAKEN commuter told last night how he watched armed undercover cops shoot dead a suicide bomb suspect by pumping five bullets into him.
Mark Whitby, 47, was sitting reading his paper when the Asian man leapt into his Tube carriage at Stockwell station — with the plain-clothes cops in pursuit.
As the man stumbled the cops closed in and — fearing he was about to detonate a bomb — immediately opened fire.
Mark said: “As the man leapt on the train I looked at his face. He looked just like a cornered rat ... like a cornered fox, absolutely petrified.
“Then he tripped. One of the police officers was holding a black automatic pistol in his left hand. They held it down to him and unloaded five shots into him — bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
Setting aside the mistaken ID on the gun...being in an absolute state of terror does seem to fit.
Other passengers expressed much the same (themselves not thinking cop I gather, but that it was happening all over again)...
Mark said passengers cowered and dived for cover as the shots rang out.
He added: “It was mayhem. I helped an elderly woman up the stairs and as I was coming up the escalator at least 15-20 policemen were running down.
“Some had handguns, some had sub-machineguns.”
“There was a lot of screaming. People were holding their hands around their heads as though a hand would stop a bullet.”
Dan Copeland, who was also in the carriage, told how the suspect desperately grabbed at another passenger as he fell.
But the terrified commuter broke free and fled just before the police opened fire.
Dan said: “We had just pulled into Stockwell and I was sitting with my back to the platform when I heard shouting. Everybody on the train was looking round to see what was going on and then a guy jumped through the door on my right and grabbed the pole and the person sitting diagonally opposite me.
“An undercover police officer came through the door on my left and shouted for everybody to get out and as I turned to run out of the door I heard five dull bangs.”
Georgia Law, who was a few carriages down from the shooting, said she feared they were going to be victims of a new outrage.
She said: “I could hear banging sounds — it was clearly gunshots.
“Everyone panicked and I didn’t know what to do. I thought ‘Oh my God, it’s happening again’”
Now this article does mention that someone yelled "Police stop", however. Hopefully we can get some positive info on this; as it's an extremely important point. If this was yelled, then he should have stopped, as the ID had been made...
Awaiting a clearer answer on that point...
I caught the tail end of CNN where an eye witness did say he heard the officer say "Police Stop" . The boy might not even speak English and never understood what he was saying. There are a lot of eye witnesses and a lot of different stories. It will take a day or two I think for Scotland Yard to make the report public.
There is one report where a coupla cops sat on him while the other shot.
If that's true, that's a pretty drastic action to take.
That doesn't sound like a safe procedure for his co-workers. :thumbdwn: Would you want to sit on someone while I shot them?
Son Goku
07-23-05, 11:05 PM
There is one report where a coupla cops sat on him while the other shot.
If that's true, that's a pretty drastic action to take.
Do you have a link to this one pal? If not it's cool, but I would like to see the report...
Actually, if they considered the guy to be wired to explode, that wouldn't look safe at all. Clearly someone sitting on him would be in the blast radius.
tbh, I have a few ideas about how this would look, if the report is true :eek:
adenosine
07-24-05, 02:19 AM
edit nevermind
That happened is tragic and a result of the fear and confusion after the early july bombings.I can understand that but don't justify it at all.
What we should do is not let such events change our way of life and democratic rights.
With all the antiterrorist laws passing in every country how far are we from beeing implanted with biochips and codebars like sheep?
That doesn't sound like a safe procedure for his co-workers. :thumbdwn: Would you want to sit on someone while I shot them?
If you shot him in the head, nope.
It's one of a multitude of different reports though, so who knows about the accuracy of it.
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