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demonized
12-20-02, 04:52 PM
For me its when a game wont run smoothly at 1280x1024 with enough AA to take care of the jaggies. Also, when i start to die to often when playing online FPS games. how about you guys?
what will be your reason for buying a new card like GeforceFX and the ATi 9700.


[btw. how do people start a poll?]

jnd3
12-20-02, 04:57 PM
My hardware upgrade have always been contingent on software. I'll get this wiz-bang game or other software package, and I'll need to up the requirements! The Star Wars screen entertainment package prompted the upgrade from the 486 to a PPro. Half-Life pushed me from the ATI 2MB card to a Voodoo Banshee. Shogun: Total War prompted my last big upgrade (PPro 200 + Voodoo Banshee -> Athlon 700 + GF2GTS). I think Splinter Cell will push the next one (soon, oh so soon)! Of course, I pointed out to my wife that an X-Box + Splinter Cell would cost much less than a PC upgrade, but (hooray) she still thinks the PC upgrade would be more cost-effective given the games I tend to play.

To post a poll, I think you need to click the little "Yes this is a poll" box on a new thread...

Cheers,
JND

thcdru2k
12-20-02, 05:04 PM
when i can afford one

deckard
12-20-02, 05:49 PM
I'm in the same boat as demonized. As long as the games I like run fine with all the available eye candy cranked up, an upgrade is the last thing on my mind. Once a truly great game comes out though that won't run fast with at least moderate AA and ANISO and I know it's time to upgrade.
Sadly, I really don't get too excited when the PR machine tosses around Super Pixel Shader and Turbo Advanced T&L or whatever because I'm really desensitized to that now since few to no games ever came out that used such features. Maybe that wll change in 2003, let's hope so.

demonized
12-20-02, 06:19 PM
I hope so since Nvidia's Cg is suppose to make things easier for programmers to do really kewl graphics with vertex and pixel shaders.

StealthHawk
12-20-02, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by demonized
For me its when a game wont run smoothly at 1280x1024 with enough AA to take care of the jaggies. Also, when i start to die to often when playing online FPS games. how about you guys?
what will be your reason for buying a new card like GeforceFX and the ATi 9700.


[btw. how do people start a poll?]

....my gf3 hasn't ever been able to run at 1280X1024 with 8x AF or FSAA at a speed i'd like, not even when it was brand new on the market. not even in Counter-Strike, let alone new(er) games :(

personally i would upgrade by now, except i'm waiting till Doom 3. in other words, it is software that will determine what my upgrade path is, and not my own personal IQ tastes. i can live with 1024 and a small degree of AF and FSAA or even ::shudder:: no FSAA.

Chalnoth
12-20-02, 11:46 PM
Me? Well, it varies. I upgraded from my TNT because, well, it was just too darned slow. I upgraded from my GeForce DDR mostly because of Morrowind. I really did want to see the PS water.

But now I want to get a GeForce FX mostly for the programmability aspect. That and I'd like very much to compare it to the Radeon 9700.

saturnotaku
12-21-02, 01:33 AM
I upgrade (with NVIDIA cards) when I feel like it and when I can afford it.

Lamentation
12-21-02, 10:26 AM
I usually upgrade when I can't stand it anymore. But it seems that the new games coming out look pretty good on their own without anis and AA. at 1280 x on rallisport and UT2k3 and the cool new demos, I don't need to move sliders to the right just for the sake of doing it.
On my 4600 I'm playing the Tenebrae for quake and it's playable at 800x600 with no aa or af. If I could get a card that played it at 1280 x at the same speed, then I would prolly get that card, but as far as I can see, there isn't one right now. I would imagine the new doom is much the same, but I don't want the alpha to test with, I can wait.
I played q3 and ut a hella lot more at 65-90 fps than I ever did when I could get 150.

DaveW
12-21-02, 11:03 AM
I can suffer no AA in 800x600 and even no AF. I ran that way on my GF2 for quite a while. My prompt to upgrade is when I actually consider switching to 16 bit color to get some better performance. Switching back to 16 bit dithering is the ultimate low and a sure indicator that you have to upgrade.

StealthHawk
12-21-02, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Lamentation
I usually upgrade when I can't stand it anymore. But it seems that the new games coming out look pretty good on their own without anis and AA.

hmm? newer games don't look any better without AF than older games do. they both suffer from the same texture aliasing without AF.

if anything you would think new games want AF more, just so you can see those nice textures. old games had blurry textures all around, nothing to see ;)

Chalnoth
12-21-02, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
hmm? newer games don't look any better without AF than older games do. they both suffer from the same texture aliasing without AF.;)

There shouldn't be any less texture aliasing when enabling anisotropic filtering, provided the texture LOD settings are properly-adjusted (A few games have less aliasing because they don't use any MIP mapping).

StealthHawk
12-22-02, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Chalnoth
There shouldn't be any less texture aliasing when enabling anisotropic filtering, provided the texture LOD settings are properly-adjusted (A few games have less aliasing because they don't use any MIP mapping).

good point. i used the wrong terminology. new and old games will be just as blurry without the extra filtering then.

eliteone
12-22-02, 04:37 AM
What makes me buy a new videocard? Just the fact that its a new card from nvidia :). I've owned a tnt2, geforce1 DDR, geforce2, geforce3, and I not have a gf4 ti4600. I cant wait for the geforce fx. Hopefully it lives up to its hype.

Lamentation
12-22-02, 11:54 AM
So UT 2k3 and rallisport don't look better than q3 and hl and all that stuff?
As for games "suffering", yes, q3 did suffer after you got used to looking at it with af on, because there really wasn't much to see there, just the floor and walls and space if you get me. I really don't care if I can't see the pits and pockmarks on a wall or floor all the way across a map, I'll be able to see it when I get closer. To me, the roads on rallisport are incredibly detailed right about where your car is, and that's pretty good, I do think it's better. There is a phrase called "gilding the lily".
On the other hand, Mafia does need af in the worst way.
I don't study my screen for the things I don't like and I think that's what all this is coming to. If you notice, in af screenshot comparisons, it's all about: "See how the floor is blurry over there?" Check out rage3d's review of the 9700pro, they have great interactive style screenshots showing the different af levels...it really tells the truth hehe. I won't play a game just becuase I DON'T see something I don't like.
Just move all your sliders to the right, take a screenshot, then go buy a new game.

Chalnoth
12-22-02, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Lamentation
I don't study my screen for the things I don't like and I think that's what all this is coming to.

No, it's not. If you play for long enough with AA and anisotropic filtering, it becomes all too easy to notice the deficiencies of rendering without one or the other.

Lamentation
12-22-02, 02:12 PM
It's a matter of degree. Maybe if I bought a $1000 sound system for my comp, I would say the same thing about sound. I'm sure there are some that do. I'd like to hear games running on that, maybe after hearing it for a while everything else would be sub par.

StealthHawk
12-23-02, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by Lamentation
So UT 2k3 and rallisport don't look better than q3 and hl and all that stuff?

no, i never said that. of course newer games look better in general, especially when they're technology pushers.

but without AF, floors and walls will be just as blurry in an old game as they will on a new game past a certain point on the screen.

we're not talking about degree here, degree is not an issue. you said that new games look fine on their own, and that is not true. there is just as much edge aliasing without FSAA in new games as there are in old games. the floor becomes blurry on new games at the same place it does in old games without AF. new games are not magically exempt.

eliteone
12-23-02, 05:56 AM
halflife is a good example. I was playing counterstrike tonight without AF on and boy did that blur bother me. Even with my athlon 2700+@2.43ghz, nforce2 mobo, gf4 ti4600, and dual channel ddr I dont like the frames I get in UT2K3 at 1024*768 max details with AF on. I'm very picky when it comes to framerates and using aniso does a number on em. Geforce cards suffer when it comes to aniso and I hope the geforce FX fixes this issue. The radeon blows the GF4s away when it comes to any FSAA or AF

SurfMonkey
12-23-02, 06:31 AM
I upgrade every year. New processor, motherboard, and memory. Usually bigger hard drives as well. The old stuff gets passed on down the chain as either Linux boxes for my mini-beowolf cluster or as family rigs.

If there is a better generation of gfx card out there I would buy it as a matter of course, I have already experienced the R300 as I got four in at at work. Now I'm waiting for the GFFX so I can make a final objective choice.

But the main reason I'd buy a new card is to see all the groovy stuff you can do with it, stuff you can make it do if you can program it. I've felt like this ever since I saw a demo on an Amiga and then went home to my sad little mono screened XT and realised just what was going to happen to the gfx market. And now I program professionally which in turn finds my upgrades which is a kind of hobby. Cool :D

Gator
12-23-02, 07:33 AM
purely the game performance. If a game I REALLY want doesn't run smooth on my card, then I upgrade. So before UT2k3 I was VERY happy with my Radeon 64ddr VIVO. It gave me all the performance I needed and all the features I wanted up until June 2002 when I received a copy of the UT2k3 beta and was utterly sicken by how poorly it ran on my Radeon.

Basically, that means I'll probably keep my current TI4400 until UT3 is released in the next 4 years...lol ;)

The other thing that'll make me upgrade is if a next generation card reaches a major price drop somewhere between 100 and 150 bucks. Meaning when NV30 reaches a price that low, only then will I likely upgrade, but there really is no reason for me to do so as long as the game I want run well.

Kruno
12-23-02, 07:50 AM
What makes you guys buy a new video card?

I strive for better pornography and lower resolutions. :D

pastor
12-23-02, 04:59 PM
* when i build a brand new pc

* when a kiss ass brand new game doesn't run smooth with my current card in the minimum resolution without AA neither AF (i don't care much of those goodies )

for instance if ID software manage to improve a bit more their code for DOOM III i think a can stick with my TI500 for an other year :p )

lagadu
12-28-02, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Chalnoth
No, it's not. If you play for long enough with AA and anisotropic filtering, it becomes all too easy to notice the deficiencies of rendering without one or the other.
the thing is that people notice little difference when going from a 0xAA + 0xAF gaming situation from 4xAA + 8(or 16)xAF, but when they try going back to 0xAA and 0xAF it's totally different. b4 trying this out one tends to think that only IQ wh0res notice stuff like AA and AF, but that chages when the "backward" step is taken.

RM. Andersson
12-28-02, 03:11 AM
I upgrade when new cards are released that are really different compared to the previous generation.

I never upgrade to a higher clocked version of the card I already have or when there are only minor improvements of the features.

I bought a Gf3 when it was released and also a Radeon 9700 Pro.
I will buy a GfFx as soon as I can find one.

I have 2 computers and try to keep both up to date.

Not really a fan of any brands. I buy what I think is the best and keep it until I can find something better that is worth upgrading too.

Regards!