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View Full Version : is this that shimmering thing everyone talks about? *56k warning*


gram_vaz
07-29-05, 05:06 AM
it seems no matter which aa mode i choose there are still certain jaggies that remain. i remember people talking about shimmering a while back but never cared before. now i do. is there anyway to make these things go away and does this happen on ati hardware?

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9158/untitled4mt.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8459/untitled29fv.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6966/untitled38tq.jpg

ChrisRay
07-29-05, 05:28 AM
No. Thats just horizontal aliasing. Not texture shimmering. It also disapears the closer/further you get from it LoD controlled. The only way to really get rid of this is to up the resolution/AA setting. I am surprised Phantasy Star is running at such a high resolution actually.

gram_vaz
07-29-05, 05:32 AM
i have a lcd monitor with native res of 1280x1024. i'd imagine getting a higher res monitor would significantly lessen this then. gonna have to start saving up for one of those 1600x1200 lcd monitors. :D

Ninjaman09
07-29-05, 08:13 AM
It won't help, actually. Unfortunately this is just something that happens and there really isn't any way to avoid it. :p

macatak
07-29-05, 11:34 AM
If you want to see what shimmering looks like the best place to see it is when you run CS:S VST and look on the wall at the last turn(near the end of the benchmark)

Slyder
07-29-05, 11:41 AM
looks perfectly normal to me. ;)

SH64
07-30-05, 04:06 PM
Ok heres a leaked screenshot shows how the shimmering looks like & remember .. i didnt tell you that Ok! :nono:

http://img85.exs.cx/img85/4224/hl22004-10-0815-30-56-92.jpg

anzak
07-30-05, 04:29 PM
Looks like texture aliasing. I dunno what sort of performance your getting, but you might want to try 8xS.

PikachuMan
07-30-05, 05:23 PM
Ok heres a leaked screenshot shows how the shimmering looks like & remember .. i didnt tell you that Ok! :nono:

'leaked'?

That moire pattern is usually fixed by turning on the negative LOD clamp and using 'High Quality' in the nv control panel (which forces off the optimisations).

SH64
07-30-05, 11:11 PM
'leaked'?

That moire pattern is usually fixed by turning on the negative LOD clamp and using 'High Quality' in the nv control panel (which forces off the optimisations).

Already tried that .. it reduce it but dosent get rid of it.
& thats not in CS:S only but other games like Pariah.

aZn_plyR
07-31-05, 03:31 AM
ugh..... stupid shimmering.. I only notice it in CS:S..... nothing else... but it's still probably there.. I just dont notice it.. but anyways... annoys the crap outta me in CS:S in De_dust in the tunnels/alley.. u can see A LOT os shimmering there... but I clamp LOD and high quality and it'll be gone 99% :P

wheeljack12
07-31-05, 05:53 PM
The shimmering, doesn't it look somewhat like invisible Vertical Hold (vhold) lines coming down your screen like on older tv's? Because if so, Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil is doing this once in a while.

bigjohns97
07-31-05, 06:03 PM
thanks for the clamp tip helped millions in mvp 2005.

gram_vaz
08-01-05, 12:07 AM
so that moire thing is shimmering? i do get that in dark age of camelot sometimes in the landscape. i have negative lod bios clamp on and graphical settings to high quality. but isn't that normal sometimes? just like how you can't get rid of jaggies completely.

SH64
08-01-05, 01:42 AM
so that moire thing is shimmering? i do get that in dark age of camelot sometimes in the landscape. i have negative lod bios clamp on and graphical settings to high quality. but isn't that normal sometimes? just like how you can't get rid of jaggies completely.

It shouldnt be there .. at least when i compare it to an ATi card.

gram_vaz
08-01-05, 01:53 AM
hmm, just another reason to make my next card ati i guess alongside the trouble i've had with driver bugs and aa not being as good as on ati(yea, i know not even ati aa completely gets rid of jaggies but they still seem to have the upper hand in aa). to tell you the truth the shimmering doesn't bug me much but for the money i pay for these high end cards i expect iq to be the best possible regardless.

Q
08-01-05, 02:58 AM
This really bugged me too when I made the switch over a year ago. I was getting into Vice City a lot then, and the difference was night and day between the my 9800 Pro and my ultra...advantage ATI. Lots of games of that style/dx8 era show much better IQ with ATI cards.

BUUUUT...

I heard that this gen of ATI card had a similiar problem...I wouldn't know for sure...

AAAAND...

Neither ATI or NVIDIA is "Better". Each SUCKS...big time! =D Ok, not really, but each has problems. It just depends on which set you want to deal with. I was going to go ATI at first during the next upgrade cycle but now I'm just not sure. I enjoy the community so much here at NVNEWS that I might stay NV regardless of performance or IQ. Its just nice to be able to have the solvable problems solved when you have them! Then again if ATI comes out with a killer/stable/affordable card...who knows.

You might want to use Rivatuner and try out some other modes of AA. These extra modes have helped out many other peoples problems, maybe it will solve yours.

gram_vaz
08-01-05, 03:09 AM
^ ati does have shimmering though not as bad as nvidia and you can get rid of what shimmering ati has by turning off AI and all optimizations. with nvidia not even turning graphical setting to high quality and turning off all optimizations will completely get rid of the shimmering. from what i've read different aa modes won't help as this is a problem that arises when aniso is on.

but like i've said, after using nvidia i'm sold on ati. i've used a 9600xt and the aa on that card was better than what i get on my 6800gt and i never had as many problems with ati drivers as i do with nvidia drivers and also dvi issues i'm having. and on linux nvidia gpu drivers don't even work for me and this is a widespread problem with it not working with many depending on your machine and distro. sure, installing ati drivers in linux is hard but at least when you get it installed it works. but i won't turn this into a gripe thread so i'll just shut up now.

okra
08-01-05, 12:49 PM
None of the examples in this thread have anything to do with the "shimmering" problem, which was best exemplified by BF1942 desert maps, such as El Alamein.

The ground textures would "shimmer" because of the negative LOD bias not being clamped, so as you walked the ground would literally "shimmer" with weird white highlights.

all the other examples are not what was being referrred to as "shimmering".

gram_vaz
08-01-05, 01:05 PM
here's a thread i remember someone made a while back about a guy with a shimmering problem and he posted a video of it so you can see it in action. it seems to be moire as well here. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=53834&highlight=hell

gram_vaz
08-01-05, 01:10 PM
btw, i've read aside from turning on negative lod bias clamp and setting graphical settings to high quality you can up the mipmap LOD bias adjustment setting to either .3+, .5+ or 1+ depending on how far you want to go(the higher you set it the blurrier textures are though i didn't notice any significant blurring at 1+) in rivatuner to further lessen shimmering.

SH64
08-01-05, 05:03 PM
None of the examples in this thread have anything to do with the "shimmering" problem, which was best exemplified by BF1942 desert maps, such as El Alamein.

The ground textures would "shimmer" because of the negative LOD bias not being clamped, so as you walked the ground would literally "shimmer" with weird white highlights.

all the other examples are not what was being referrred to as "shimmering".

Ah i think i got things mixed up .. sorry.
i thought the moire pattern is the same as the shimmering issue. i guess that makes them 2 issues now with nvidia heh ..
i can get over the shimmering issue by 16xAF(HQ) or clamping the LOD bias as mentioned earlier .. thats not really a problem to me. though i still cant get rid of the moire issue which is the one i was talking about & have shown example for it in the previous shot.
its still there even in the GF7 series & its nvidia only issue .. on ati i dont get it & even if i get it its hardly visible there.

MikeC
08-01-05, 08:54 PM
Important information about the "high quality" image setting in the 77.72 drivers

I am working on an SLI review and have been running benchmarks to compare the performance of the quality vs. high quality image setting. In SLI mode I normally use application profiles, which is where I configure the image quality setting. After running a series of benchmarks in Half-Life 2 and Far Cry, the average frames per second for the quality and high quality settings were the same.

I began looking over the global profile settings and noticed that the global image setting was set to quality. After I set the global image setting to high quality, the high quality benchmark results were lower than the quality benchmark results, which is what we should expect.

This bug was confirmed by Chris Ray and has been reported to NVIDIA. If you use application profiles and wish to control the image setting, be sure to configure the image setting in the global profile for now as a workaround.

SH64
08-01-05, 11:41 PM
Yeah i made a thread about this bug sometime before & stressed on its importance.
BTW this bug is not just present in the 77.72 drivers .. i was getting it with even much older versions!

Mr. Nice
08-02-05, 04:42 AM
i thought the moire pattern is the same as the shimmering issue. i guess that makes them 2 issues now with nvidia heh ..They are both related, they are both artifacts of texture aliasing. moire is the "milder" form, shimmering the "advanced" form. Hence why you find it easier to eliminate shimmering then moire.