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View Full Version : Dident see this one coming.. LCD's and Tearing.


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Elderblaze
08-02-05, 12:24 AM
Bah! When I read about all the disadvantages of LCD's no one ever told me about Tearing. OMFG annoying. With my new 2005fpw, DVI at 60 Hz. And ****ty Nvidia drivers that don't support Triple buffering (WTF?) Ati has had that **** for years. I have to put up with bad tearing or Crappy Vsync cutting my frame rate in half all the damn time. Chalk one up for CRT's. Luckily the game I play most now supports Triple Buffering, but I can see this being a major drawback.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: yes i know crt's tear, but you can set them easily to over 100 hz refresh and tearing is minimal/gone.

Banko
08-02-05, 12:42 AM
Bah! When I read about all the disadvantages of LCD's no one ever told me about Tearing. OMFG annoying. With my new 2005fpw, DVI at 60 Hz. And ****ty Nvidia drivers that don't support Triple buffering (WTF?) Ati has had that **** for years. I have to put up with bad tearing or Crappy Vsync cutting my frame rate in half all the damn time. Chalk one up for CRT's. Luckily the game I play most now supports Triple Buffering, but I can see this being a major drawback.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: yes i know crt's tear, but you can set them easily to over 100 hz refresh and tearing is minimal/gone.
Download 77.76 drivers, and before you flame NVidia D3D games actually have to code in tripple buffering support to even support it, but with the 77.76's you can enable Tripple Buffering on all OpenGL games. (The D3D will happen with ATi cards as well) I also have no idea what tearing you are talking about, I have a LCD and I get no tearing.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 12:50 AM
Hmm.. I just installed 77.77 and there's a "Triple buffering" option in the drivers. And it signifigantly improved Half Life 2. But if I go by what your saying it should not effect it at all.

And the Nvidia flame is still valid. ATi's had forced triple buffering for well over a year and Nvidia's just now getting around to it.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 01:43 AM
lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. there is no global driver level triple buffering option for d3d. the triple buffering option in the drivers is for opengl only. for d3d triple buffering has to be implemented into the game due to the way the dx api works with the os.

and tearing is a problem both on crt and lcd. but actually it's less of a problem on lcd due to the relatively slower response time of the lcd. but if you want zero tearing your going to have to enable v-sync regardless of crt or lcd.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:13 AM
Hmm? really well thanks for the info. I don't appreciate the personal attacks though man. Geesh settle down, not all of us are know it all genious. Some of us have a personal life.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:18 AM
your a moran. by dx spec a game has to call to the api for triple buffering. it can't be applied on the driver level.

and no, tearing is actually more of a problem on crt because a crt is lightning fast when it comes to picture refreshing and a picture refreshing too fast is what causes tearing since a new picture may begin to be drawn while the last frame is still on the screen.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:21 AM
Moron?(that's spelled with an O btw) did you read the forum rules, that's a personal attack, I hope you get whats coming to you from a forum admin. This kinda trash talk is unaceptable.

I don't really buy your resoning that Tearing is a lesser effect on LCD's. My LCD has a 12 MS GTG responce time, it's quite quick and I can easily spot tearing. And it's much easier to push a game past 60 FPS (60 Hz) and produce tearing then it is to push one past 100 Hz or 120 Hz on a CRT.

The Nvidia driver panel says nothing about the Triple Buffering setting. It does not say it's OpenGL only. Though it would not surprize me. That does NOT change the fact that I did see a noticable improvment going from 77.72 to 77.77 in tearing with half life 2. perhaps it's from somthing else, but the differnce is there regardless.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:23 AM
well i'm sure if you hadn't edited your previous post you would have been just as liable considering you called me an idiot along with various other personal attacks.

btw, LOL, your so petty, do you actually think i'm going to get banned for calling you a moran?

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:24 AM
Moron?(that's spelled with an O btw)
moran is the l33t way of spelling moron. go read up on fark to 'get it'.

oh come on? if your wit depends entirely on trying to correct perceived spelling mistakes your best off keeping your arrogant trap shut before stirring up trouble

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:29 AM
Seriously? Who pissed in your post-o's my friend. I came here with a simple question, hoping to find an answer from someone that's owned an LCD far longer then me. Not be attacked by a know it all. Your forum agressiveness is probably a sign of somthing else in your life that you have to make up for. Seriously, seek professional help. I don't expect you to get banned, but perhaps warned. We don't need people like you in this community. Grow up.

Though I wouldent expect someone who can't tell a differnce between 25 and 60 fps to notice tearing :rolleyes2

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:36 AM
I don't really buy your resoning that Tearing is a lesser effect on LCD's. My LCD has a 12 MS GTG responce time, it's quite quick and I can easily spot tearing. And it's much easier to push a game past 60 FPS (60 Hz) and produce tearing then it is to push one past 100 Hz or 120 Hz on a CRT.



normally i'd point you to a v-sync article on teamradeon.com that explains all of this but teamradeon has gone under. :( here is the first google cached page though you can't navigate past the first paged in it's cached form unfortunately. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:oBe5jWKkUOQJ:www.teamradeon.com/articles/guides/vsync/vsync_guide.asp+teamradeon&hl=en


The Nvidia driver panel says nothing about the Triple Buffering setting. It does not say it's OpenGL only. Though it would not surprize me. That does NOT change the fact that I did see a noticable improvment going from 77.72 to 77.77 in tearing with half life 2. perhaps it's from somthing else, but the differnce is there regardless. lol, i doubt different drivers would improve v-sync performance. v-sync is a pretty basic command in dx and opengl. new drivers are mainly to fix bugs and sometimes add features.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:38 AM
Though I wouldent expect someone who can't tell a differnce between 25 and 60 fps to notice tearing :rolleyes2you just spew all this bs don't you? are you serious? your thinking because someone can't notice high fps then noticing degradation in image quality due to tearing isn't possible?

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:39 AM
I guess your right, it's all in my head. There is no signifigant tearing on my monitor and the drivers dident help with my problem. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Go pick a fight with someone else im obviously far to ignorant for someone of your intellect.

(bs2)

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:40 AM
when did i say tearing doesn't exist? quit trying to pull things out of your ass.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:42 AM
Please, if you got nothing else to contribute to this thread quit posting. I came here asking for help, you came here to pick a fight.I don't need to read any articles on Triple Buffering and Vsync I know all I need to know by seeing what they do in games. It's not all that complicated.

Vsync + No triple buffer = jumpy frame rate, 60 one second 30 the next. It sucks.

Vsync + Triple buffer = Much smoother frame rate. I don't know exactly how this works, and I don't need to. But it definatly has a profound effect on the way Vsync works.

I don't need to know the complicated inner workings of this stuff it's not rocket science.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:42 AM
oh shut up. you know very well how you reacted to me before you edited your post.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:51 AM
new drivers are mainly to fix bugs and sometimes add features.

Oh you mean like that new feature added in 77.72 (but has to be activated by a Registry hack) that enables Triple buffering at the driver level, and the bug fix in 77.77 that actually puts the option under global advanced. yeah that sounds right.

Im about to check CS:S again just to make sure it was not my imagination the first go around. But I swear, there is a noticable improvment.

gram_vaz
08-02-05, 05:58 AM
Oh you mean like that new feature added in 77.72 (but has to be activated by a Registry hack) that enables Triple buffering at the driver level, and the bug fix in 77.77 that actually puts the option under global advanced. yeah that sounds right.

uh, yes. just like those bug fixes and added features.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 03:40 PM
Well I tested out VST with and without the Triple buffer option enabled in the control panel. It made absolutely no differnce in benchmark numbers. I don't have a logical explanation for why I see less tearing with 77.77. But I do. I tried using fps_max 55, and it had no effect on tearing. The only options I have is to turn down aa to 0, so that average frame rate stays relativly high and use Vsync. Or use 4x aa and 8x anistrophic in an attempt to keep framerate Lower then 60 but still high, and deal with some tearing. This really sucks, I wish Half life supported Triple Buffering like Wow, which runs absolutely beatiful with no tearing in sight.

Zelda_fan
08-02-05, 03:51 PM
Hmm? really well thanks for the info. I don't appreciate the personal attacks though man. Geesh settle down, not all of us are know it all genious. Some of us have a personal life.

You come in here like a flaming idiot guns ablazing what kind of reaction do you expect? People in here are happy to help you, but when you act like this, why should anyone waste their time?

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 05:29 PM
Few hours of frusteration will do that to you. Only a flaming idiot to LCD Nvidia Fanboi's. I use both and enjoy both but without the fanfaire. K thx.

LBJM
08-02-05, 09:59 PM
I havent had any problems with my dell 2405fpw.

Riptide
08-02-05, 10:35 PM
I notice tearing in CSS with my 2405FPW. I run w/vysnc off. It doesn't really bug me much.

Elderblaze
08-02-05, 11:36 PM
:mad: This annoys me enough to uninstall half life and give up CS. Guess im gonna have to make sure all future games support Triple Buffering.

DoomUK
08-03-05, 05:45 AM
The only game I ever notice significant tearing on my TFT LCD is in Doom 3 w/o Vsync. Also a little in Far Cry and BF2.