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killahsin
08-05-05, 11:11 AM
http://www.shacknews.com/screens.x/prey/Prey/1/080505/080505_prey_2.jpg

games looking damn good can't wait for this one.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 11:12 AM
It's Prey, not Pray. ;)

killahsin
08-05-05, 11:27 AM
bahaaha yeah i know i didnt even realize i typed pray lol

there fixed lol :fkr:

SH64
08-05-05, 11:34 AM
This shot is truly awesome ! WOW!

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/3854/centurions4rh.jpg

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 11:39 AM
I still don't like how textures look unrealistic in the Doom 3 engine, they look so clean rather then dirty. Everything is smooth and polished looking...

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:02 PM
Thats more of an artistic choice than an engine choice though.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 12:06 PM
Then how come every DOOM 3 Engine game suffers from it, Even Q4 and QW?

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:09 PM
Because they don't spend the time to do proper spec mapping?

all that is is just a pure spec coating rather then tieing all the maps together. rust doesn't shine by default in the engine lol. It shines because the genius's put a straight spec map on it. and don't have the spec coincide with the normal/bump/texture. It's just lazy artists or art leads who don't want the extra time spent in photoshop tweaking 6 gb layers per texture. lol

why i dont really know, but i do know that its not the engine but just the arts design choice. Maybe they are all stuck in the wow factor of having specular+normal running at the same time. who knows. All i know is leigh from cgtalk would so own these texture artists, lol.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 12:13 PM
Stop making excuses... Its an engine fault. Your saying that all the developers are taking the same shortcuts? Sorry but thats bull...

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:14 PM
magus it is not the engines fault. That is specular mapping silly.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 12:19 PM
You can add Specular Mapping without crapping the textures. Source Engine does this...

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:21 PM
I will give you an example. A face is not supposed to be fully specular. but in that screenshot not only is the face completly spec, but everything in that screenshot is covered in a complete spec. A face should have higher specular mapping on the forehead slightly along the jawline and on the check bone. the ridge of the nose and so forth. Doing proper spec mapping on every textue in a game takes a LOT of time. Doom 3 doesn't have any specular mapping limitations, the limitations might be on the time the artists have the money the teams have to spend that time to do it properlly.

Yes valve spent the time having their artists do PROPER spec mapping. The engine doesn't do it in some extreme way. The artists spent their time doing it properlly. The game wasn't insanely expensive for any other reason then valve took their time to not have the effects over glossed.

aAv7
08-05-05, 12:23 PM
Looks nice....but after seeing those Gears of War shots in the console forum...this doesnt hold a candle to it.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 12:25 PM
Doesn't matter if it has limits or no limits, Your basically saying that all the artists that use the DOOM 3 engine are either lazy or just suck since they can't use Specular Mapping properly on the Engine.

Untill I see a single example of Specular Mapping on the Engine that doesn't make textures look clean and polished I will continue to blame the engine because there are plenty of other engines available that can do Specular Mapping without such issues.

Other engines that can accomplish proper Specular Mapping are the EQ2 Engine and the Starbreeze (COR Engine) Engine.

CaptNKILL
08-05-05, 12:26 PM
This shot is truly awesome ! WOW!

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/3854/centurions4rh.jpg
Anyone else think that this looks an aweful lot like the scene in Doom 3 when the 2 hell knights come out of the portal and you have to fight them? This looks a lot better, but still... thats a little too similar for me.

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:32 PM
m saying the developers dont have the money to pay an artist to spend 3 years doing proper real world use of materials the way you want them to. Valve could afford it. Sony could afford it. Do you have any idea the timeframe required to do what your asking? Your a mapper. You should know how long it takes to do a real bump map that isnt just a greyscale of the original texture. Then you get into the gloss, the normal maps, and the spec maps. Your talking 40+ hours for each model alone. These shots don't show any scaling to the specular. they show the same amount of spec across the board. Specular doesnt have any limitation like that. Neither does bump mapping or parallax mapping. Valve also uses alot higher detail texturing then doom 3. Which allows them to disect what should be spec and what shouldnt. Your not talking about engine limitations. Your talking artistic limitations here.

a good example of it done right is the dark mod for doom3. Btw.

|MaguS|
08-05-05, 12:35 PM
Um, Specular Mapping and Bump Mapping are faily simple to due with todays engines, Sorry but you keep spouting BS. ID has ALOT more money then Valve does... ALOT MORE. ID is one of the richest Developers in the industry.

killahsin
08-05-05, 12:40 PM
magus. what are you talking about? Gabe one of the original microsoft millionaires. Really, your talking about bump mapping and spec mapping being easy to do. Sure if you just turn a original texture grayscale and call it a bump map. I'm not spouting bs. The fact is spec maps are probably the most complicated things to do properlly in texturing, because you have to not only align them properlly to all the other maps but you have to understand how the light and geomotry is effected by them at every angle. Your calling the truth BS. thats sorta silly. Spec/bump/parallax-offset. are standards. They arent done any 'differently'. It's up to the artists in how to use them. When an engine does spec it does spec. How the team uses that spec, is up to them.

kev13dd
08-05-05, 02:13 PM
Anyone else think that this looks an aweful lot like the scene in Doom 3 when the 2 hell knights come out of the portal and you have to fight them? This looks a lot better, but still... thats a little too similar for me.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw it

After seeing these shots, I actually like Prey less. I saw the video from E3, and I don't think 2 of the 3 shots hold a candle to the video

K

killahsin
08-05-05, 02:52 PM
yeah i also noticed the resemblence slightly. but i'm pretty sure prey isnt going to be like doom 3, lol.

Sorrow
08-05-05, 03:02 PM
Doom 3 never looked this good :thumbsup:

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/3854/centurions4rh.jpg

kev13dd
08-05-05, 03:36 PM
yeah i also noticed the resemblence slightly. but i'm pretty sure prey isnt going to be like doom 3, lol.

It won't, I'm 10% sure. It has gameplay style that sets it completely apart from Doom 3, let alone the graphics

Prey has a bunch of "portal" things, so that's probably where that screenshot comes from. Monsters come out of the portals sometimes. In Doom 3 there is only one portal though, directly to hell. Tons in Prey that lead you all over the ship

K

Acid Rain
08-05-05, 09:11 PM
yeah i also noticed the resemblence slightly. but i'm pretty sure prey isnt going to be like doom 3, lol.But everyone knows the Doom 3 engine always had crappy textchers and only playz in corridirs. Duh. Prey will teh suckS!

I actually like the artwork. I like the slick surfaces and metallic feel, as well as the beasty models I've seen in all Doom 3 related software. Like...no, I love them. I also love bullet proof code. It just feels good.

I don't want everything to look "gritty", dirty and rusty. Bleh. I don't want every game to feature dingy environments. Also, some materials don't rust, corrode, or even hold dust well, so, maybe these high tech environs should look slick.

If you have an issue with the artwork, don't buy the stuff.

killahsin
08-06-05, 09:23 PM
But everyone knows the Doom 3 engine always had crappy textchers and only playz in corridirs. Duh. Prey will teh suckS!

I actually like the artwork. I like the slick surfaces and metallic feel, as well as the beasty models I've seen in all Doom 3 related software. Like...no, I love them. I also love bullet proof code. It just feels good.

I don't want everything to look "gritty", dirty and rusty. Bleh. I don't want every game to feature dingy environments. Also, some materials don't rust, corrode, or even hold dust well, so, maybe these high tech environs should look slick.

If you have an issue with the artwork, don't buy the stuff.

why quote me when i'm not the person complaining about it?

Nv40
08-06-05, 09:41 PM
looks very detailed to me..
but the second and third screenshots needs a lot of work..

http://www.shacknews.com/screens.x/prey/Prey/1/080505/080505_prey_2.jpg

the outdoors (again) is where the Doom3 engine shows its bigger limits.. looks plastic (rocks dont shine) "rocks melted" and the indian characters is not very detailed but most likely that was done on purpose for performance reasons. already is very well know that the plastic look of doom3 is a limitation in the game that use an universal specular fixed value for everything.. which make things unrealistic at times.