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Rakeesh
08-07-05, 09:39 PM
Does anybody know if it is possible to make old games (e.g. starcraft, that run in 640x480) run in an evenly upscaled resolution? Say for example, you force starcraft to run in 1280x960 with monitor scaling disabled so that there is no pixel bluring.

This would effectively make each pixel double on to its neighboring pixel, and no picture quality loss would be present. The only side effect would be losing 10% of your screen to black bars on the top and bottom, but I figure it is better that than lose pixel clarity.

I noticed the nvidia driver allowes you to add 1280x960 under the screen timings and refresh rates tab, but how can you force the display to scale to that resolution rather than scale to its max resolution?

Elderblaze
08-07-05, 10:09 PM
Starcraft cannot run at any other resolution then 640x480 because it uses 2D sprites and was played in competition, Blizzard deemed it unfair that some would be able to play at higher resolution then others thusly seeing more of the battlefield. This is remedied with Warcraft 3 because it's 3d and they don't show anymore/less battlefield at different resolutions. It's not the case for all 2D spirte based games, but many. Including Diablo 1 and 2.

Rakeesh
08-08-05, 01:00 AM
Well, I am not looking for increasing the resolution, I am looking for a way to scale the image displayed 2x without any bluring that normally occurs.

E.g. by default it scales the 640x480 image to 1280x1024. You can set it to stay 640x480 and it just shows a small picture in the center of the screen (and theres no bluring here.) You also have the option of "fixed aspect ratio scaling" which does put the resolution at 1280x960 (and the black bars are present on the top and bottom in lieu of the missing 32 pixels on each side.) However, the nvidia driver is still attempting to filter the image as if it is an uneven upscale, and it still looks blury that way.

crainger
08-08-05, 08:21 AM
Your pretty much stuck, like most of us LCD users running older games. I tried the nvidia scaling and for me its much better to let the LCD do it. I purchased this LCD after researching which panels scale older games better. Perhaps a program such as SCUMMVM will apear for Starcraft, until then do what I do. Suffer the quality loss or have a CRT and switch it to primary to do some old gaming.

subbo
08-08-05, 01:49 PM
This very subject was my first post on this forum. I requested nearest-neighbor scaling for power of 2 resolutions (ie for my monitor, 800x600). Just think how absolutely idiotic it is to scale pixels up to twice (four times) the resolution and BLUR IT out of recognition instead of just quadrupling each individual pixel. It's hardware engineering at its worst.

Back in the day I had my Ti4200 and it couldnt put out 1600x1200 in any game properly, and 800x600 however pixelated, would have been a nice option. Plus many games had their menus at 800x600 or were locked at 800x600 (sims etc).

It's been two years and the first game I've seen do this is FEAR, and nvidia has no plans to rid us of the hideous bilinear blurring now or ever.

gram_vaz
08-08-05, 02:27 PM
what i don't get is why do they do that blurring technique in lcd panels for non-native resolutions? at least give us the choice. i'd rather tolerate a pixely image than a blurring of the image which is supposed to mask the pixelation... a viewsonic monitor i had would scale the image without blurring it, sure there was some pixelation, the lower the res, the more pixelated it became but it's better than a blurry image...

subbo
08-08-05, 02:51 PM
The biggest complaint in the early days of LCD was the nearest neighbor scaling causing the uneven batches or lines of pixels. I suppose the developers figured people would shut up about it if they gave them the "better" solution with bilinear scaling. It worked for video and 3d acceleration after all.

The same thing is going on with cell phones right now, as they dont have bilinear scaling (no video acceleration) and all the backgrounds you can buy, images you take, smiles and mms are usually scaled to the screen size rather than per pixel (as again, people want FULL SCREEN not icons) and the scaling errors are hideous.

Frankly I dont think we'll get rid of this until there are so many pixels on the display (like 4080x3020) that the eye cant tell every fourth column of pixels is one screen-pixel wider than the others, so that the per-pixel display basically becomes the "CRT" again, but still maintains the per-pixel edge accuracy.

Rakeesh
08-08-05, 08:18 PM
It's been two years and the first game I've seen do this is FEAR, and nvidia has no plans to rid us of the hideous bilinear blurring now or ever.

That is stupid too because it doesn't even require them to impliment anything; rather just to remove something.

What nvidia should do is allow you to manually adjust the intensity of the bilinear bluring to whatever you find to be best. Some monitors do this actually. But it doesn't help if they do since it is up to the driver to do the non aspect correct scaling.

GuOD
08-09-05, 04:50 PM
You can have it stretch to fit your screen while maintaing the fixed resolution ratio.

In your video card settings, nview display settings..device settings, device adjustments, fixed aspect ratio scaling

Greg
09-09-05, 08:32 PM
In Display Properties, there is an option 'Display Mode Timings' with checkbox 'Enable doublescan for lower resolution modes'. This seems to have the desired effect of at least double scaling before bilinear magnification. However, in my test, the 640x480 screen was stretched so that the left side was clipped off the screen. 800x600 didnt work at all, the monitor just said 'signal out of range'. (The 640 one just said 'no preset'). So I am not sure exactly what this option is supposed to do, but it comes close to what I believe you want.

Amoor
09-09-05, 09:37 PM
In Display Properties, there is an option 'Display Mode Timings' with checkbox 'Enable doublescan for lower resolution modes'. This seems to have the desired effect of at least double scaling before bilinear magnification. However, in my test, the 640x480 screen was stretched so that the left side was clipped off the screen. 800x600 didnt work at all, the monitor just said 'signal out of range'. (The 640 one just said 'no preset'). So I am not sure exactly what this option is supposed to do, but it comes close to what I believe you want.
I think this option is only available when using the normal VGA input, not the DVI, which is what AlphaWolf_HK is using i think...

Greg
09-09-05, 11:11 PM
I think this option is only available when using the normal VGA input, not the DVI, which is what AlphaWolf_HK is using i think...
Okay. I was testing with Analog output to a BenQ FP737 from a Geforce 5800. I would have hoped the digital output would give more options.

particleman
09-12-05, 04:28 AM
I wish there was a way to disable the horrible filtering/blurring when using low resolutions too. I would rather have uneven batches using nearest neighbor than bilinear filtering. Bilinear filtering looks nice on textures, not full screen.

subbo
09-13-05, 03:37 PM
I tested a cheap LG 19" TFT yesterday that a friend bought and to my surprise it had pretty great scaling for lower resolutions, meaning almost no blur. Hopefully we'll see more of that in the future and perhaps get things like power of 2 scaling on the display's end if nvidia or ATI cant do it on the adapter-end.