PDA

View Full Version : After the War (1.0) Map/Mod


Pages : [1] 2 3

FraGTastiK
08-18-05, 05:55 PM
its a multiplayer map with outdoor areas including water reflection.

there's a complete non-doomish feel to it.hardware demanding and looks nice,revealing more of D3 Engine potential.

looking forward to see more from this guy.

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11892

DL LInk:

http://doom3.filefront.com/file/After_the_War;46018


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=12969&stc=1


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=12970&stc=1

aAv7
08-18-05, 05:56 PM
I saw this the other day at doom 3 files, but since its MP I decided not to bother...what the heck...not doing anything else, ill give it a go.

OWA
08-18-05, 06:28 PM
Same here. Not really into MP but I'm downloading it anyway. Thanks for the link.

FraGTastiK
08-19-05, 04:47 AM
you are welcome OWA,its not really about SP or MP but more about the tech demo aspect of it IMO although its a working MP map.

here I took a couple of screenshots:

OWA
08-19-05, 12:20 PM
It looks really nice. Did you take the screenshots with the D3 screenshot key or did you use fraps? I took about 30 or 40 screenshots trying to use the D3 screenshot key (since I forgot to start fraps) but they all came out solid black. :(

OWA
08-19-05, 02:31 PM
The map brings my system to its knees. It's strange since I get basically the same framerates at 1600x1200 as I do at 1280x1024. CPU limited?

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7003/doom320050819140259816nd.th.jpg (http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140259816nd.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5033/doom320050819140309875sz.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140309875sz.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7998/doom320050819140557098ed.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140557098ed.jpg)

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1299/doom320050819140844574se.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140844574se.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/543/doom320050819140922030fz.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140922030fz.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9753/doom320050819141023578wa.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819141023578wa.jpg)

anzak
08-19-05, 05:14 PM
The map brings my system to its knees. It's strange since I get basically the same framerates at 1600x1200 as I do at 1280x1024. CPU limited?

Maybe its an engine limitation. It does look impressive though.

FraGTastiK
08-19-05, 05:20 PM
yea I used the F12 key that takes shots in .TGA format.(had to resize them to fit the upload limit)

I agree with you at full max settings 4aa 16af it really taxes my system.

my guess is if it should've been made under the supervision of say a programmer like Carmak it could run much smoother.

surely it can be optimized more to run faster,its just the first release.the important thing is that D3 engine looks very nice in that map.

oh try r_bloom 1 (or 2 but its too shiny) and it will virtually make your PC cry.

I liked the floating barrels Physix and the waved glass effect on one of the inside doors.

OWA
08-19-05, 06:00 PM
I wonder why my screenshots didn't come out when using the F12 key. Guess I'll try that again.

Yeah, I really like glass on the door also and it's one of my screenshots. Great effect.

I gave the bloom option a shot when I was still inside the corridor in the water but meant to play around with it some more once I got outside. Think I'll give that a shot soon.

Anyway, the guy did a great job. It looks great.

Did you see this pic in the thread?

FraGTastiK
08-19-05, 06:32 PM
yea i saw that picture,HellknightZilla... nice one.It would be thrilling to play a COOP game vs those HellZillas.

this is what i did and managed to take screenshots:

loaded AFTERWAR from the mods menu then typed "map atw1" in console.

Rakeesh
08-19-05, 07:01 PM
Dunno what makes people insist that the doom 3 engine isn't good for outdoor stuff. This beats the crap out of anything source can do IMO, and without all of the bugs too.

OWA
08-19-05, 09:11 PM
Argh, I took over a 100 pics using the F12 key but once again it came out blank. :( Oh well, while taking screenshots I discovered a few areas I had missed (actually, the whole other side of the map). :)

Edit: More screencaps...

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3509/doom320050819212023953te.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819212023953te.jpg) http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/4118/doom320050819212920847qz.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819212920847qz.jpg) http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7334/doom320050819213549313wy.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819213549313wy.jpg)

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/4031/doom320050819214222154sg.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819214222154sg.jpg) http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2404/doom320050819214530923ke.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819214530923ke.jpg) http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8559/doom320050819215009014ba.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819215009014ba.jpg)

anzak
08-19-05, 11:14 PM
Dunno what makes people insist that the doom 3 engine isn't good for outdoor stuff.

Maybe its the fact that people are getting the same framerates regardless of what resolution is used. This means its either CPU limited or the engine is simply not able to handle the outdoor enviroments. I highly doubt it's CPU limited.

Until you give me one good example to where the engine scales properly in an outdoor enviroment, then yeah, I'll believe the Doom 3 engine is not able to handle outdoor enviroments well. I'm not saying its bad or less advanced than Source. Only that in its current state it is limited to semi-outdoor enviroments only. Maybe Megatexture will fix this. *shrug*

This beats the crap out of anything source can do IMO, and without all of the bugs too.

Is this really necessary? Why must you turn every thread into Source bashing grounds.

OWA
08-19-05, 11:35 PM
Maybe its the fact that people are getting the same framerates regardless of what resolution is used. This means its either CPU limited or the engine is simply not able to handle the outdoor enviroments. I highly doubt it's CPU limited.

Actually, it turns out I'm wrong about that. I thought they were the same but after paying attention to it much more closely, the framerate changes like you'd expect. For example, in one of the low-framerate areas I had framerates in the low-20s at 1280x1024 4xAA/8xAF but at 1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF I was in the low-to-mid teens.

The low performance areas are really weird also. Just a slight touch of the mouse that moves my point of view ever so slightly will quite often take me from the low 20s to being pegged at 60 without any obvious reason. Also, sometimes even stranger results occur. Like facing a crate I'll be in the 20s but facing water reflections, shadows, etc. I'll be pegged at 60.

holmes
08-20-05, 01:00 AM
this map makes my rig cry... :(

sure does look sweet though... :)

Nv40
08-21-05, 01:37 AM
Dunno what makes people insist that the doom 3 engine isn't good for outdoor stuff. This beats the crap out of anything source can do IMO, and without all of the bugs too.


Because Doom3 Engine is very ineficient for Outdoors.thats why . :)
The renderer was done with DArk and closed corridors in mind.. TO scare the hell of you.. So they didnt cared for outdoors shadows/lighting. Neither for decent water ,trees , even less for FOrest or Stalker looking skies. :) In Fact Doom3 have more features that originally IdS wanted.. Since they were againts multiplayer and more interactive physics.


Doom3 is even more limited than previous IDsoftware games engines quake2/quake3 ,team areana for "outdoors" because it use stencil shadows everywhere which simply arent good for outdoors. performance is very very very poor as polygons increase. and the shadows are pitch black.if that were not enough the speculars lighting is fixed their angle. Whenever people says comments like DOOm3 looks "
too dark.. (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom320050819140557098ed.jpg) " or "too plastic" you will understand the issues of the engine. It might look cool in screenshots but when you play the game its annoying at some point. you even need to use a flashlight for "daylight" in teh game outdoors.. Which shows again that the Renderer of the engine is very dark. the "fix" is to add lights in every place but this kills the performance and can make unrealistic the graphics. And if that were not enough Doom3 original game is limited for multiplayer for 2 or 4 players?. and this is because another limitation of the engine this time its physics.. this is why MP mods in Doom3 virtually dont exist and the mod community is waiting for a fix from RAven developers in quake4. In one way they released an unfinished next generation engine ,for others to finish. if you look at the ammount of people that worked in the level.. in the readme to fix this or that.. it looks more like a total Conversion MOd than custom level. :)

The only way to understand the ammount of "mistakes" IdS have done with the engine is that they only wanted to use the technology just for that game ->DOom3 and that they were targeting very low hardware all the way to the Geforce1-3. which is not coincidence that looks almost identical the game on that hardware. They knew that any other limits of the engine will be fixed later by other developers..


You will never see by the mod community a forest with grass in Doom3 engine, neither animated nice looking water like farcry or Hl2 or Halo or insert_nameof game here.. neither Skies like stalker. watch all Doom3 engine games ..quake4/quakewars and Pray and you will see that the engine is Too Dark in some of their shots even in "outdoors". If Epic or Valve or other developers license the D3 engine they will not have as much problems as the MOD community since they have access to the full source code of the engine and top programmers and can add new renderers and new features on TOp.
Look at SplinterCell3.. is a perfect example of what you can do if you are a developer with talent. is Unreal2 engine ,but doesnt looks like anything ever done by that engine. :)

The D3 map looks great. i imagine the dificulty it took the designer doing the level and trying to make it run on any machine.but give the same author(s) the farcry editor or Hl2 editor or Stalker editor and he will be able to create very quickly not only many times more bigger outdoors but also nature enviroments with better graphics with vehicles that works .and at the same time with better performance. You can place walls and textures here or there to simulate a city in doom3 or in this case a small town but the engine will not be able to handle the graphics in any playable form for any system. AS other have said is doesnt scale well with many polys. an unfortunately other games using the same engine could end with similar game limitations if nothing is done to fix this.

This is in no way saying you cant get high quality graphics in Doom3..Is one of the nicer looking indoor games and it character animations are one of the best..it just that the engine have too many limitations for other style of games.

FraGTastiK
08-21-05, 09:25 AM
yea D3 engine maybe cant do major outdoor vegetation,---->but it was not meant to do that in the first place.

why dont you argue that HL2 cant do lighting and shadows like D3?or a much better example why isnt source a bulletproof bugfree engine like D3? why the combine cannot keep his leaking shadow from slipping thru upper floor thru the wall etc.and the list goes on...

D3 can do outdoors look at Quake wars and the detail there is going to mop the floor with everything else you throw at it,and you know it.its based on D3 engine how surprising.

and about D3 engine being an unfinished product...i thought Valve was infamous for this!

if D3 engine was the unfinished product it would have been impossible to pull out something like Quakewars out of it.

you see this is what engines do,they creat a base (in this case a good base)for other developers to make great games using that base.thats what is called good Potential.

then we have engines like UE3 that is said to be very easy for developers to make games based on it.but thats a different story.

The only way to understand the ammount of "mistakes" IdS have done with the engine is that they only wanted to use the technology just for that game ->DOom3 and that they were targeting very low hardware all the way to the Geforce1-3.
Because Doom3 Engine is very ineficient for Outdoors.thats why
huh?--->Quake wars Quake wars Quake wars

aAv7
08-21-05, 10:34 AM
why does every doom 3 thread end up in a debate about the engine being able to do outdoors or not? =P

MUYA
08-21-05, 12:04 PM
Force of habit of some members which really is beginning to bore the pants of me

Gabrobot
08-21-05, 05:39 PM
I don't know, this looks an awful lot like an outdoor level with vegetation... :p

http://images.3dgamers.com/screenimages/games/enemyterritoryqw/trojan_patrol_2.jpg

Nv40
08-21-05, 07:05 PM
I don't know, this looks an awful lot like an outdoor level with vegetation... :p




THe discussion here is again about the Doom3 Idsoftware engine. Not about Doom3->others DEvelopers modifications to the engine. but about D3E and the mod community.
AFter the War map made by the Mod community already proof how weak is the Doom3 engine for outdoors. a flashlight for daylight? it is playable? Why all doom3 levels looks so dark ? even the ones that that emulates a city or an open area ? DOnt mix the works of others Developers with what IDsoftware have released to the mod community. Probably others Developers have added tons of improvements already to the Doom3 engine. including vegetation and enviroments stuff. similar to what call of duty developers have done in their game with the quake3 engine.

IF crytek license Doom3 and add their water code and their outdoors engine to DOom3 , can we say it was done by the doom3 engine ? i dont think so.

We can return to this thread in 5 or 10 years . and you will not be able to show me a single level in Doom3 original game that have playable big outdoors of the size and the quality of Hl2/Farcry/ or Stalker or even of the original Unreal1 game and even less good looking nature enviroments. you can place Polygons here and there to simulate an open very big area ,but the design of the level will be limited by the lighting of the game.. the pitch black shadows and the very low performance of stencil shadows as polycounts increase ,makes Doom3 very ineficient and weak for outdoors enviroment. is that simple.

SH64
08-21-05, 10:25 PM
Same here. Not really into MP but I'm downloading it anyway. Thanks for the link.

What he said.

also i'll use it to show my nagging friends that Doom3 can do outdoors decently & have some fun trying it on LAN while enjoying the graphics. :)

Gabrobot
08-22-05, 01:15 AM
THe discussion here is again about the Doom3 Idsoftware engine. Not about Doom3->others DEvelopers modifications to the engine. but about D3E and the mod community.
AFter the War map made by the Mod community already proof how weak is the Doom3 engine for outdoors. a flashlight for daylight? it is playable? Why all doom3 levels looks so dark ? even the ones that that emulates a city or an open area ? DOnt mix the works of others Developers with what IDsoftware have released to the mod community. Probably others Developers have added tons of improvements already to the Doom3 engine. including vegetation and enviroments stuff. similar to what call of duty developers have done in their game with the quake3 engine.

IF crytek license Doom3 and add their water code and their outdoors engine to DOom3 , can we say it was done by the doom3 engine ? i dont think so.

We can return to this thread in 5 or 10 years . and you will not be able to show me a single level in Doom3 original game that have playable big outdoors of the size and the quality of Hl2/Farcry/ or Stalker or even of the original Unreal1 game and even less good looking nature enviroments. you can place Polygons here and there to simulate an open very big area ,but the design of the level will be limited by the lighting of the game.. the pitch black shadows and the very low performance of stencil shadows as polycounts increase ,makes Doom3 very ineficient and weak for outdoors enviroment. is that simple.

If I understand you right, you have a pretty silly argument. Modders aren't creating content up to par with what professional companies are...wow, I wonder why that is? Of course it has to be the engine's fault. I mean, obviously unpaid people who work in their spare time can easily match the top professionals in the industry, so the limiting factor has to be the engine.

This screen looks as large as any area in Half Life 2 (take a look at the marine model there...it's the little thing just to the right of the cross hair), seems plenty bright, has a high polygon count and...ah, yes I see your point. Look at the terrible framerate...I take back what I said, the Doom 3 engine is hopeless. :rolleyes:
http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/5.56FMJ/images/techdemo_009.jpg

Vegetation can't be done. :(
http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/5.56FMJ/images/techdemo_004.jpg


Yes my friends, we'll never see huge landscapes (that takes, say, an hour to walk across) in Doom 3...
http://www.diduct.com/Portfolio/Leveldesign/Doom3/new01.jpg

Early tests show Doom 3 can't get anywhere near doing forests...
http://www.diduct.com/Portfolio/Leveldesign/Doom3/20000.jpg

Might as well give up now I guess.



And as for licensed Doom 3 engines not applying...why exactly? Did they make some magic change or addition to the engine that suddenly let's them do large outdoor areas with vegetation? Quake Wars has id Software's new MegaTexture tech, but that just allows them to use an enormous texture on the terrain. (Not to mention it's already in Doom 3) They're still using real-time per-pixel lighting and stencil shadows on everything. What exactly did they change? (Oh, I see...they turned self shadowing on the characters, so now there's even more stencil shadows being cast...brilliant! :D ) And hell, Quake 4's Doom 3 engine has hardly been modified, besides Raven using their own AI system (no doubt the one used in their earlier games).

Hey Nv40, how about you give me proper in depth reasons why Doom 3 can't do large outdoor areas with vegetation, and why Quake Wars can do that, but Doom 3 supposedly can't. All I've heard is some vague stuff about pitch black shadows (ever heard of ambient light?) and fixed angles on specular lighting (huh? I think you mean fixed gloss value? That's done in the interaction shader, people changed that and added gloss mapping months ago)...it makes no sense, and simply does not make a convincing argument. I get the feeling you really don't understand the tech at all.

Nv40
08-22-05, 03:23 AM
Hey Nv40, how about you give me proper in depth reasons why Doom 3 can't do large outdoor areas with vegetation, and why Quake Wars can do that, but Doom 3 supposedly can't.

Perhaps is there any way you can read. the THings i say and dont twist the things i say ?

When i have say Doom3 cant do "outdoors".. notice the " ". Perhaps it is because my concept of "outdoors" is really diferent from a mars surface.

notice what i have said in my last post..

Hey Nv40, how about you give me proper in depth reasons why Doom 3 can't do large outdoor areas with vegetation, and why Quake Wars can do that, but Doom 3 supposedly can't.


[QUOTE]We can return to this thread in 5 or 10 years . and you will not be able to show me a single level in Doom3 original game that have playable big outdoors of the size and the **quality** of Hl2/Farcry/ or Stalker or even of the original Unreal1 game and even less good looking nature enviroments.

BUt it dont ends there also said this..

you can place Polygons here and there to simulate an open very big area ,but the design of the level will be limited by the lighting of the game..

the pitch black shadows and the very low performance of stencil shadows as polycounts increase ,makes Doom3 very ineficient and weak for outdoors enviroment. is that simple.


My claim is..
1)Doom3 engine is very weak for outdoors (not that cant emulate open areas)and even more nature enviroments. (if you compare them to the quality of games today. (eg.. FARcry and HL2 and many others)

Why?
Because stencil shadows are very ineficient for outdoors quality wise and performance wise. is that simple. and DOom3 engine/editor/game neither support Water or FOrest . Neither tools for terrain generation (diferent than most other games outthere).

THose screeenshots very weak.. for outdoors. dont showme tech demos ,of 5k crappy trees.. that noone will ever play. :)

The Mod Full metal shows however have a nice textured empty terrain with crappy water.. nothing that looks or match the quality of farcry or Hl2 or many others of games . the other screenshot the dark one looks like very poor with melted rocks...pixelated textures once more dark. i cant believe you posted that..sorry mate.. go play other games than Doom3. eg.. Farcry ,Hl2 ,Guildwars , morph games /Rpg or RTS games and later come back with tech demos. Even call of duty have better playable "outdoors" that seems more believable than Doom3.

But let me summarize before again you come saying things never have told. ALL 3dGAMES .. all support "outdoors". since original doom(which was 2d) there were "outdoors" ." " right? i remember seeing "outdoors" in quake2 :eek: diference between indoors and outdoor is ARTwork and the tools of the game.But the lighting of the game needs to be efficient handling them. and my concept of quality
outdoors is more than a big empty place ,that is very dark with pitch black shadows everywhere. So again show me a single Doom3 level from the MOD community *i can download* that have playable big outdoors enough for the needs of any game with vehicles or boats with this ->QUALITY (http://www.farcry-thegame.com/uk/screenshots.php) And no experimental demos please ..

Subtestube
08-22-05, 03:38 AM
Because stencil shadows are very ineficient for outdoors lighting. is that simple. and DOom3 engine/editor neither support Water or FOrest . Neither tools for terrain generation (just like every other game outthere).


I've almost replied to you three times, and haven't done so because I can't be bothered getting involved in this oft-repeated argument again, but I'm going to anyhow.

- The lack of water is NOT AN ENGINE LIMITATION. It is an oversight in terms of artistic design, and there is a HUGE difference in that.
- Stencil shadows scale LINEARLY providing the geometry is not substantially jagged (Massive overlap slows things down). Most outdoor geometry is not. The only problem with stencil shads in terms of geometry is that if you're already vertex (rather than fragment or shader) limited, they're going to bottleneck you further. In other words, if you're already hitting your polygon limit they're very bad.
- Ambient lighting, which is again an artistic decision rather than an engine limitation, is the only thing that decides precisely how dark the shadows are.
- Finally, the sun is practically the best directional light we have, providing it isn't dawn or dusk. In a bright sunny day at about 10 AM, you actually do have pretty hard edged shadows.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't address your fixation regarding the mod community. Just so you don't throw that query at me - I don't own D3 (though I have played the Demo, and played the full game on others' computers) and so couldn't point you towards a 'mod' that does all of this. Despite that, I really can't see why it has to be a mod for the game. Engine / Game / Modding tools are three very different things that tie in closely with each other. In any case, I suppose if your complaint is really with the modding tools and shader set that shipped with the game D3 rather than the engine, fine - your comments regarding water/naturalistic outdoor spaces are legit. Despite that, your claims regarding stencil shadows are just flat wrong.

Oh and one more thing: If the original D3 engine doesn't support LOD scaling then yes, it will be inadequate for large scale outdoor envis, but that has nothing to do with stencil shadowing and a water shader.