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Killtek
08-23-05, 09:10 AM
I've noticed some articles/reviews on the 7800 GTX cards having texture shimmering issues at Quality or High Quality settings.

I have two Evga 7800 GTX SLI cards and I play BF2 and CSS and don't know if I'm experiencing shimmering or not because I don't know what to look for.

What is texture shimmering???

Do you have to be anal to see shimmering?? :D

|MaguS|
08-23-05, 09:19 AM
Texture Shimmering is when distant textures look like they are shinning or moving when you are moving in the game. It can only be really seen in videos or during gameplay.

Its very apparent in World of Warcraft.

Lil Sassy
08-23-05, 09:21 AM
You have to be extremely anal to see it in most games with the problem. It looks like the textures become a mash of crawling, ugly dots in the distance. This has to be the worst explaination even. Anyone else want to give it a go?

Ninjaman09
08-23-05, 09:33 AM
Don't try to look for it. Once you see it, it'll bug the crap out of you, and you'll go crazy trying to get rid of it in vain. Just enjoy your cards. :D

|MaguS|
08-23-05, 10:13 AM
Heres a video I made of shimmering in Call of Duty... The ingame settings were maxed (1600x1200 aswell) with 4xAA/8xAF, Texture Clamp was on aswell.

http://s53.yousendit.com/d.php?id=37LZ1YQYF2EC4390IK1MW22SKS

ViN86
08-23-05, 10:59 AM
Don't try to look for it. Once you see it, it'll bug the crap out of you, and you'll go crazy trying to get rid of it in vain. Just enjoy your cards. :D
hahahahaha, i was wondering what it was too, but this will suffice for me.

OWA
08-23-05, 11:20 AM
Heres a video I made of shimmering in Call of Duty... The ingame settings were maxed (1600x1200 aswell) with 4xAA/8xAF, Texture Clamp was on aswell.

http://s53.yousendit.com/d.php?id=37LZ1YQYF2EC4390IK1MW22SKS
Looks like you're using quality mode instead of high quality mode or does it just look that way b/c of the video (or did you do that way for demonstration purposes, so it would be more obvious?). Using the high quality mode in the nvidia CP, you can eliminate a lot of the shimmering in COD. I also use 8xS AA, GAA, TAAS, and 16xAF and that seems to help a little as well.

|MaguS|
08-23-05, 11:24 AM
Both Q and HQ show no difference for me using the 77.72 driver set.

But mainly the video is to show what it looks like...

OWA
08-23-05, 12:17 PM
Both Q and HQ show no difference for me using the 77.72 driver set.

But mainly the video is to show what it looks like...
Might want to try setting it in the global settings and in the profile for COD. It doesn't look like the HQ mode is active (or working). The Q mode shimmering is much, much worse than the HQ mode. But anyway, as you said, the video does a good job of showing the shimmering.

BTW, what did you use to convert the video from AVI to DivX? I've been playing around with a few and they seem to take forever. Of course, part is it is that I have no idea what I'm doing.

SH64
08-23-05, 12:22 PM
You should be happy that you dont see or notice it :)
i noticed it once & its a headache since then.

|MaguS|
08-23-05, 12:40 PM
VirtualDub for converting image formats, Captured with FRAPS.

MikeC
08-23-05, 05:41 PM
BTW, what did you use to convert the video from AVI to DivX? I've been playing around with a few and they seem to take forever. Of course, part is it is that I have no idea what I'm doing.Here is a mini how-to guide that I posted a while back:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33579&highlight=virtualdub

An alternative video codec to DivX is xViD. Download the latest version of XviD here instead of the link I provided in the above post:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/software.htm

The XviD link is listed under the Codecs section.

After you install xViD, you should be able to play the following video clips that I converted from the FRAPS codec to xViD using VirtualDub:

http://www.nvnews.net/videos/painkiller/painkiller_xvid_mpeg-4_01.avi - 7.7MB - 512x384
http://www.nvnews.net/videos/painkiller/painkiller_xvid_mpeg-4_02.avi - 6.5MB - 512x384
http://www.nvnews.net/videos/painkiller/painkiller_xvid_mpeg-4_03.avi - 7.1MB - 512x384

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/hl2/xvid_1.5.avi - 12.5MB - 1024x768 - Example of shimmering ;)

The following video was converted to MPEG-1 using TMPGEnc, which is also covered in the how-to guide:

http://www.nvnews.net/videos/painkiller/painkiller_02.mpg - 2.5MB - 312x240

OWA
08-23-05, 05:47 PM
Thanks. I needed that. I got the video loaded into VirtualDub but had no idea what to do next. I had planned to read the documentation later tonight but I think I'll hit the mini how-to-guide instead.

MikeC
08-23-05, 05:50 PM
Also, recording video with FRAPS while maintaining 30fps requires a fast hard drive, like the WD Rapotor, and a high-end CPU.

SH64
08-23-05, 05:51 PM
An alternative video codec to DivX is xViD. Download the latest version of XviD here instead of the link I provided in the above post:

http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Codecs/XviD-1.0.3-20122004.exe



it gives an Unauthorized hotlinking messege :(

MikeC
08-23-05, 05:52 PM
it gives an Unauthorized hotlinking messege :(

Sorry about that. Link to this page and click the download link on the left:

http://www.doom9.org/

or

http://www.doom9.org/software.htm

The XviD link is listed under the Codecs heading.

SH64
08-23-05, 06:34 PM
Thanks ! .. lots of other intereseting stuff there aswell :)

ChrisRay
08-23-05, 07:29 PM
Shimmering is a problem that occurs when mipmaps arent properly joined by filtering. This causes a "banding" effect in the distance dependent upon the amount of filtering and mipmap adjustments. What this causes is textures to look like they are crawling forward in the distance. Generally areas with significant repeating textures ((Gravel roads)) are more prone to the issue. To some people. This isnt a big deal. To others is monsterous distractiong. Some dont evn notice it.


Usually it can be fixed by lessoning the LoD impact. Keep in mind that negative LoD tend to sharpen textures in non Anisotropic Filtering enviroments. With AF enabled the need for a negative LoD is likely not as apparent due to anisotropic filtering sharpening textures. So clamping the LoD or putting a positive may not be as noticable with anisotropic filtering enabled. Some may argue that this does affect quality. And they'd be right that it does. But I find it a perfectly acceptable tweak given the circumstances.

I have a video which illustrates the issue with a simple texture makeup. I'll have it uploaded shortly to give you guys an example.

PNY7800GTX
08-23-05, 07:35 PM
Indoor levels in Farcry it's really bad too, I've got a few videos of it. Once you see it and show it to someone it drives them nuts too... wish I didn't even know cause now I see it everywhere :(

ChrisRay
08-23-05, 10:05 PM
This video here should give you an idea of what exactly shimmering is. You'll notice how the textures in the distance tend to "Roll Over" as you move.

http://www.nvnews.net/articles/chrisray_iq/shimmerexample.avi

PNY7800GTX
08-23-05, 11:03 PM
Im just hoping that they can fix it soon.

nitromullet
08-24-05, 12:38 PM
Texture Shimmering is when distant textures look like they are shinning or moving when you are moving in the game. It can only be really seen in videos or during gameplay.

Its very apparent in World of Warcraft.

You are correct about WoW, this is probably the worst offender I have seen yet. I have been adicted to WoW for about a month now, so it was important to try to get this cleared up as much as possible. The best results I have gotten to help with this is to set the AF to x16, high quality, disable all the optimizations, and clamp the LOD. Then enable 4x transparent SSAA. All of this needs to be done in the NV control panel as the default (not the WoW profile). This is important because there is an issue with the defualt settings over riding the app specific settings. The shimmering is still there, but with these settings it is not nearly as noticable as it was. I imagine that 8x tr SSAA might look even better, but I have an unresolved issue with my rig and 8x tr SSAA so I can't comment on that.

combat_wombat
08-24-05, 12:53 PM
and WoW has the big TWIMTBP logo plasted all over it, and the shimmering textures is BAD, even the most untrained eye can see something aint right

|MaguS|
08-24-05, 12:54 PM
Yeah even in the dam video options menu... pathetic...

gram_vaz
08-24-05, 01:13 PM
omg, thanx for those videos. if that's what shimmering is doesn't bug me at all. i kept mistaking normal jaggies and z-buffer texture flickering errors for shimmering.