It isn't just in the US they consider such things post 9/11

[Feanor]

http://www.theregus.com/content/55/25890.html

I didn't like the proposal for a national ID program when it was proposed here...I wonder if latter on they'll have dubious types suggesting brain fingerprinting and the rest... If things get sufficiently rejected in Japan though, perhaps other governments which have considered this will have more reason to think otherwise by trying to implement it elsewhere (such as in the US). The snoops have too much info on us already...now to clean out more of that spam that seems to have come my way since I had to remove Alexia Adware from my comp... (Don't ask me how that got slipped on)

[styles-T]

i thought a SS# was our way of having an ID..

I guess in the future we'll have UPC labels tattoo'd to our necks. :)

/scan *bleep*

[Feanor]

What was being proposed goes well beyond the SS# (at least here when they were talking about the national ID program). There is also the matter of intent or purpose in creating something...and for whom...

But oh yes, there are ways to track people...but sometimes to not "expand the power" any further though, hehe

[PsychoSy]

Sounds like that prophetic number of the beast sh*t from the Book of Revelation. I think I'll pass!! :eek: The US government wants a simular kind of ID system but with tracking abilities. I don't like the idea of anyone knowing exactly where I am in the world at any moment of the day.

[styles-T]

like a V-chip type of thing?

I could of sworn way back I read an article on how they wanted to track people with criminal records by putting a chip in there body..Sorta like low jack..

Its pretty scary if this did come into play..imagine someone knowing your every move & knowing everything about you..

[Feanor]

I wouldn't want people to know where I would be every moment of every day...and do not try to leave it easy for people to always know. My life falls under the "none of your d*mned business" category with these snoops and the like.

[t6_shadow]

Better be careful Feanor the CIA is probably after you RIGHT NOW! They are out in the bushes and a black silent chopper is hovering over your roof! They have your phones tapped too! Run the evil government is after you! :rolleyes:

[Feanor]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Better be careful Feanor the CIA is probably after you RIGHT NOW! They are out in the bushes and a black silent chopper is hovering over your roof! They have your phones tapped too! Run the evil government is after you! :rolleyes:

haha, very funny. But perhaps you should do some reading up on what they are doing for real...and there is real reason to be concerned (and no it is not paranoia) with things like carnivore and the like. Then again I had a family member who was in the CIA :D Oh well... You might not care about your privacy, but some of us do and have the right not to have it intruded upon by anyone...let along as some blanket and indscriminate proposal that effects everyone no matter what

BTW if someone were on my roof as you so quantly put it...I wonder if a crash course in counter-intelligence would be in order :D That's right, if I was being intruded upon that way, my natural inclination would be to fight and expose, then who would be spying on who... If faced with that sort of scenario, I wouldn't mind pulling a Brill (from Enemy of the State) on the snoops myself... The 5 o'clock news sounds good? Hey one joke deserves another :p Not that it would be beyond my reconing to contemplate such things if such was happening this moment...

And BTW...just for your information, the CIA and the FBI have different jurisdictions... As this is in the US and not a foreign country, try making it the FBI next time...that might be more believable :p

[Phyre]

One thing is for certain, if you don't care about your privacy, the government has no problem caring about it for you. ;)

BTW, that was a good observation Psychosy. It's coming. Just wonder how long. It will probably be forced when it does happen.

Phyre

[t6_shadow]

"haha, very funny. But perhaps you should do some reading up on what they are doing for real...and there is real reason to be concerned (and no it is not paranoia) with things like carnivore and the like. Then again I had a family member who was in the CIA Oh well... You might not care about your privacy, but some of us do and have the right not to have it intruded upon by anyone...let along as some blanket and indscriminate proposal that effects everyone no matter what

BTW if someone were on my roof as you so quantly put it...I wonder if a crash course in counter-intelligence would be in order That's right, if I was being intruded upon that way, my natural inclination would be to fight and expose, then who would be spying on who... If faced with that sort of scenario, I wouldn't mind pulling a Brill (from Enemy of the State) on the snoops myself... The 5 o'clock news sounds good? Hey one joke deserves another Not that it would be beyond my reconing to contemplate such things if such was happening this moment...

And BTW...just for your information, the CIA and the FBI have different jurisdictions... As this is in the US and not a foreign country, try making it the FBI next time...that might be more believable"

Actually I am well aware of all these things. I was joking. But reallyt if you think that the FBI, CIA or NSA can't find out everything and anything about you, your living in a dream world. Then can do it right now with the current technology they have. The mark of the beast stuff is going quite far but bleh we have no real privacy anyways. I am not a terrorist and believe ppl who are shot be shot on sight so more power to them. Really your not breaking any laws so who cares?

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
"haha, very funny. But perhaps you should do some reading up on what they are doing for real...and there is real reason to be concerned (and no it is not paranoia) with things like carnivore and the like. Then again I had a family member who was in the CIA Oh well... You might not care about your privacy, but some of us do and have the right not to have it intruded upon by anyone...let along as some blanket and indscriminate proposal that effects everyone no matter what

BTW if someone were on my roof as you so quantly put it...I wonder if a crash course in counter-intelligence would be in order That's right, if I was being intruded upon that way, my natural inclination would be to fight and expose, then who would be spying on who... If faced with that sort of scenario, I wouldn't mind pulling a Brill (from Enemy of the State) on the snoops myself... The 5 o'clock news sounds good? Hey one joke deserves another Not that it would be beyond my reconing to contemplate such things if such was happening this moment...

And BTW...just for your information, the CIA and the FBI have different jurisdictions... As this is in the US and not a foreign country, try making it the FBI next time...that might be more believable"

Actually I am well aware of all these things. I was joking. But reallyt if you think that the FBI, CIA or NSA can't find out everything and anything about you, your living in a dream world. Then can do it right now with the current technology they have. The mark of the beast stuff is going quite far but bleh we have no real privacy anyways. I am not a terrorist and believe ppl who are shot be shot on sight so more power to them. Really your not breaking any laws so who cares?

maybe he is breaking laws, and that's the problem :p j/p

[netviper13]

Yes the CIA can only handle overseas tasks, they have something much worse to handle the super-covert US stuff: the NSA.

I would MUCH rather have the CIA tailing me than the NSA.

[Feanor]

Oh man, the way you quote, you don't even spell out what is your text and what is not

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Actually I am well aware of all these things. I was joking.

I know what you were doing...and I know what you were implying. You weren't that subtle and I could read between the lines.

But reallyt if you think that the FBI, CIA or NSA can't find out everything and anything about you, your living in a dream world.

I am living in no dream world and I already know what they can do along with how much asleep the masses are as well... I won't get into all of that now...I'm not even comfortable with much of what I know... However THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO EXPAND THE POWER OR MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM...AND NO REASON TO EXCEPT THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP WITHOUT A FIGHT. I won't remain quite as things progress "but one step further" nor am I that frog in the pot of water.

Then can do it right now with the current technology they have. The mark of the beast stuff is going quite far but bleh we have no real privacy anyways.

So just give in and let them take the next logical step, I disagree. That's like saying if someone broke in your house and stole your TV, mise well let them break in another night to steal the toaster too, because hey they already stole things...why not let it carry on one step further :D

There will only be real privacy if people don't just lie down and say die when these sorts of things are proposed. As one put it quite well some time back, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I am not a terrorist and believe ppl who are shot be shot on sight so more power to them.

What a world we live in when it is thought only terrorists should be concerned about privacy. In fact I think governments that would go this far inflict terror and needlessly on their own citizens. People's right to privacy shouldn't be based on whether one is a terrorist, and quite frankly I find the whole supposition "why should you worry" to be extremely offensive.

Oh and BTW, Martin Luther King or many others in our nations histories weren't terrorists. Nor were the multitudes so effected by the hysteria prevalent in the House Unamericans Committee or preyed upon by Joe McArthy. And those are but some examples.

Perhaps some of us do not want our lives to be an open book. I didn't run for office, I didn't put myself in the media spot light...and quite frankly I don't take kindly to people spying on me... I see someone do it, they best be prepared for me to expose them... Oh yes, survalence can work both ways...and if someone was outside my house...there is no reason I couldn't have a video camera pointing out the window to wath them too along with negative publicity placed upon them.

Really your not breaking any laws so who cares?

Again that is not the point...and if we ever did decend to a point where the law did become highly unethical and twisted (even worse then Senator Hollings would propose with the SSSCA) who knows what would become necessary on the grounds of conscience, or in some cases for scientists to be able to publish their work without retailiation from the recording industry under the DMCA (another tale). Anyway, what a d*mnable world this has come to be if one can't fight for their own privacy and have it without the automatic assumption being made that only crimminals or terrorists need consider such things.

For God's sakes, if the SSSCA goes through as is, just giving out a Linux CD could possibly become illegal...

[|JuiceZ|]

Originally posted by Phyre
BTW, that was a good observation Psychosy. It's coming. Just wonder how long. It will probably be forced when it does happen.

Phyre

got that right....

[PsychoSy]

Originally posted by Phyre
BTW, that was a good observation Psychosy. It's coming. Just wonder how long. It will probably be forced when it does happen.

"As of right now, the technology is in it's infancy and is purely voluntary but, like any new technological gadget in this world, objects that are voluntary today have a way of becoming compulsary for survival tomorrow."

This is a direct quote from one of the heads that lead the development of microchip ID system back in 1995, which was intended to be used primary for people wanting to finding their lost pets but admitted that it could be very useful as a global ID system for humans if the U.S. Government were to chose to adopt it. The microchip is about the side of a grain of rice and can be powered either by the imbedded lithium battery or from the voltage given off by the central nervous system. It can be preprogrammed with vast information on you such as your blood type, medical and criminal history, where you live, your phone number, where you work, how much you make a year, and can record your vital signs almost in real time. It emits this information constanty though low level radio or microwave frequencies which can be picked up by anyone with a compatible receiver, which can relay that information to large databases.

This technology, in the hands of terrorists or big government, can be very dangerous. The Government could make this technology into law - to the point where citizens could not get a job, could not buy or sell goods, or qualify for any government assistance (VA benefits, SSI, welfare, etc.) without "volunteering" to have this microchip imbedded under their skin, and all they have to do is BS the masses by suggesting the implementation of this technology in the guise of "terrorism".

And if you think the ACLU will have any stroke against this, think again. This microchip technology was originally funded and supported by a Liberal majority, although many Conservative groups supported it as well. As we see now with the "terrorism" dogma being preached by our current Thief-In-Chief and Defense Secretary, the mass public is falling for it, and that makes the ACLU or anyone that asserts their civil liberties as unpopular, unpatriotic, or even "anti-American" from their perspective.

With such a social climate, pushing a global ID system onto the masses would be embraced by the public and approved both by the God-Fearing right and the Godless left up on Capitol Hill.

It's no longer a question of if.
It's more like a question of when.
After 9/11, that "when" may come sooner than anyone can anticipate.

[|JuiceZ|]

Sy, I couldn't of said it any better my friend...

[t6_shadow]

"With such a social climate, pushing a global ID system onto the masses would be embraced by the public and approved both by the God-Fearing right and the Godless left up on Capitol Hill."

Actually sy um the god-fearing people will not. Not if they read the bible anyways. As you said there is mention to the "mark of the beast" etc. Well this is pretty much it so I would see a strong oposition to this chip at least from them.

As for this chip the only thing it aids them to do is locate you at any current time or place. Other than that they have the means to find out any of this other information. Think about it medical history by contacting a doctor, your salary by contacting the IRS, criminal history and address can be obtained by any police officer in the country etc. See they have all this stuff already. What I am surprized by it that we have no eliminated everything down to just a plastic card already! I mean everyone carries around like 15 of the damn things already. Why not shrink it into one?

Think of the ways they keep track of you. Driving license, Health cards, hospital cards, credit cards, bank cards. All they need is one of these things to find out exactly who you are? And if you not carrying your walet you have no proof of being a US citizen so they could put you in prision!

[Feanor]

Being able to locate one from moment to moment (where they're favorite hang outs are, when there in the room for a particular meeting, what groups they are in the presence of) is pretty significant...

And as long as the databases are seperate, confused (oh yes, many databases...well lets just say they are poorly designed, having the same data multiple times in different tables, it gets updated in one but not another, something gets deleted resulting in an orphan record, etc...)

Ever wonder why for instance when you have to change your address, so you go to the right dept and fill an address change form, dif depts in the company continue to mail to the old address? That's why...with the duplication of data, it gets updated in the place where it supposedly exists in the dBase, but because other depts duplicate it, it never gets updated there too...so they still mail to the old address

Keeping data seperate and not being tracked or radio tagged from moment to moment makes things a tad bit more difficult. And I for one am all for keeping their job more difficult LOL

[Kruno]

I have one word to say:
EMP

[PsychoSy]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Actually sy um the god-fearing people will not. Not if they read the bible anyways. As you said there is mention to the "mark of the beast" etc. Well this is pretty much it so I would see a strong oposition to this chip at least from them.

Some of them might, but of the majority of them won't because most of the time, those God-Fearing conservatives hear the cha-ching of the cash register more than they hear their own conscience. They aren't much different than Biden or Hollings.

Think about this: If they are allready selling the poor and the elderly up the river with INSANE 1000%-4000% markups on generic perscription drugs, brother, they won't hestitate to sell ALL OF US out to Beelzebub. As long He pays well, they could care less. Bush has the ENRON logo shaved into the back of his head and Hollings has a Mickey Mouse tattoo on his ass!! Their all harlots to big business, man. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats on Capital Hill is in who makes their suits - Sears or Elder-Beerman for Democrats and Gucci for Republicans. :p

You can wrap up a pile of sh*t with cheap newspaper or expensive silk cloth but it doesn't change that fact that underneath it all, the pile is still sh*t!! :D

As for this chip the only thing it aids them to do is locate you at any current time or place. Other than that they have the means to find out any of this other information. Think about it medical history by contacting a doctor, your salary by contacting the IRS, criminal history and address can be obtained by any police officer in the country etc. See they have all this stuff already.

But, the difference with global ID chip grafted into someones epidermis, they can have all of this information at a press of few buttons on one of those lovely old 286s that litter the offices at the FBI, CIA and the Pentagon. Punching a few keys sure beats the hell out of calling a bunch of assorted dorks on the phone, eh?

What I am surprized by it that we have no eliminated everything down to just a plastic card already! I mean everyone carries around like 15 of the damn things already. Why not shrink it into one?

What do you think global ID chip is? It has the potential to be a ONE-ITEM solution to everthing, especially if we ever move to a total cashless society based on credits and debits, and we're allready close to that crap allready.

Every time I'm in the checkout lane at a store, there's either some goofy goth-freak with a nosechain and Thai-Stick on his breath waiting to get approved for a bag of Funyuns or the some smelly business cretin yaking on a cell-phone with his broker while happily paying 18% interest for Newsweek and Pepsi by using his Visa!! :mad:

It makes me so mad that I feel like taking both of them and bashing their heads together so that the business cretin's cell-phone attennae becomes entangled with Goth-Boy's nosechain. Then I can yell to a church pastor in another lane, "Hey Father! Drop your damn case of Guiness, get over here with your book, and pronounce these two boneheaded twits husband and wife! They're allready close enough to kiss each other, fer Christ's sakes!!" Man, I hate them!!

I'm dead serious - I don't like the way this ID chip crapola can go.
In a few years, we might get a knock on our door by some MIBs!

"Good day, Mr. Sizemore. Mind if we come in and carve these sixes into your bald gourd?"

SLAM!!! :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek:

[Feanor]

Their all harlots to big business, man. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats on Capital Hill is in who makes their suits - Sears or Elder-Beerman for Democrats and Gucci for Republicans.

There's truth to this... It amazes me sometimes... I was reading over at DSL Reports sometime back and someone commenting on an article about the SSSCA said essentially "it figures some Democrat would sponsor something like this... They're all bad, no Republican ever would..."

Then more then a couple people replied back and suggested he look at the article because Hollings wasn't the only sponsor of the bill... The bill was co-sponsored, and yes a Republican did sponsor it :p

Anyway, some of these God fearing men of God...let me see. Early 1990s, Flint, Michigan...following the closing of the GM car plant (on Christmas, as the CEO talked about what a giving time of year it was, in a stuffy room with other suites...meanwhile following his layoff people's houses were being reposessed and famalies had to sell their Christmas presents to survive and spend Christmas on the streets)...

Anyway following this, some "God fearing" televangelists decended upon the town preaching the "good word" of if ye give then ye shall receive, so give to the ministry of the Lord. After they got the remainder of the people's life savings these fine men of the cloth packed their bags and skipped town with the peoples' money...

And oh yeah, latter that year I had heard on CNN that there wasn't enough money left for the local shops to remain open and unemployment *exceded*!!! 80%. Yes what fine, upstanding men of God some of these people are...

[PsychoSy]

Here's some commentary I read recently that is amazing!

Democracy In America

It Was An Interesting Experiment


How stable, one may wonder, is the United States?

The answer would seem to be, "Exceedingly." The country has had no coups,
attempted coups, or revolutions. Our only civil war came over a century ago.
Political stability has contributed mightily to American success. We have
avoided the internal wars, shifting governments, and dictators that have
plagued the political adolescents of Europe.

Yet we are not a happy country. Below the surface lie anger and hostility that
seem to have no resolution. Strains exist that we do not, may not, talk about.
We hide these problems, and hide from them, hoping they will go away. Perhaps
they will. Perhaps they won't.

The odds, I suppose, are against an explosion. It is as hard to imagine violent
change in the United States as it was, fifteen years ago, to imagine that the
Soviet Union would spontaneously disassemble. (Part of Marxist theory was that
government would one day wither away. It did.) On the other hand, the country
seems to me to be quietly, growingly--angry.

I wonder.

If, as a debating exercise, I were to argue for the possibility of cataclysmic
upheaval, of race war, revolution, a coup, or widespread civil unrest, I would
make my case as follows:

Our problems are grave. For example, we have a black minority of about thirteen
percent that seethes with anger, does not seem to be assimilating, and grows in
numbers. Blacks quietly gain political control of more and more cities. While
their standard of living rises, their degree of allegiance to the larger
society does not.

We have an equally large and growing Latino minority. To what extent Latinos
will assimilate is not clear. Their children do poorly in school, which does
not bode well. If they turn into a self-aware group in opposition to white
America, into brown blacks, we will face a quarter of the population, and
rising, hostile to the mainstream (and in all likelihood hostile to each
other).

Whites back passively away, frightened in their own country, moving deeper into
the suburbs, acceding to every demand. The others advance, knowing that the
advantage is theirs. But it may be that this just raises the stakes should
conflict come.

The racial divide is by itself every bit enough to cause disaster.

Profound division, and profound anger, permeate white America itself. Some of
it follows the fault lines of partisan politics, but partakes of something
deeper. It is not politics as usual. The antagonism is between the
traditionally American, and what for brevity may be called the politically
correct. It verges on hatred.

The dispute among whites is not about details, not about the fine tuning of
this or that policy. At stake are crucial, emotionally explosive matters such
as the de-Christianization of the country, the ever-tightening governmental
control of behavior, social decay, the replacement of merit by racial and
sexual patronage, the forced mixing of racial and ethnic minorities that don't
want to mix, a Latino invasion resented intensely by a majority of whites, and
the relentless imposition of values abominated by the traditional America.

And there is the curious hostility between men and women. It won't erupt, but
it aggravates tension. When instincts are thwarted, the limbic temperature
rises. Generalized anger has a way, sooner or later, of focusing itself.

Historically, America's elastic democracy has prevented revolt by yielding to
pressure. If women decided they wanted to major in chemical engineering, the
country said, fine, sign here. Assimilation has been a chief instrument. If the
Irish were held in disregard in one generation, in the next they moved up,
blended, became generic Americans, and ceased being resentful or resented.

But--are today's resentments thus eradicable? What happens when groups don't
assimilate, when nonnegotiable values of one group are inherently incompatible
with those of another group?

Mechanisms of change appear to be lacking. We have two essentially identical
political parties that refuse to address the aforementioned crucial questions:
immigration, race, etc. Instead of looking for solutions, we hold the lid on by
compulsion and censorship. It could prove dangerous. Think of Yugoslavia.

By stifling dissent, are we, as many think, giving our problems time to
disappear? Or are we coiling a spring?

Further, we have cornered ourselves. The increasing centralization of
government, and the increasing scope of its jurisdiction, make retreat
impossible. In 1900 a town in Montana could run its schools as it liked.
Washington and New York had neither the manpower, the communications, nor the
interest to intervene. True, Montanans then probably had even less influence
over Washington than they do now. Crucially, Washington had less over them.

Today remote bureaucracies monitor small towns and their schools, their
textbooks, the racial and sexual ratios and failure rates in Algebra II,
prescribe what they may and may not teach, what morality must be instilled,
whether people can say "One nation under God," and send federal marshals should
transgression occur.

Just as Tito held the lid down on Yugoslavia, the metagovernment prevents
explosion (metagovernment being the curious amalgam of the media, academia, and
their allies of which the federal government is the instrument). But Tito is
never immortal. Then what?

Such are our domestic circumstances. Abroad, we face further stresses that we
equally fail to resolve.

We find ourselves in a partial, half-noticed war with, depending on your degree
of realism, terrorism or Islam. The country suffered a devastating attack in
New York. So far, we have done essentially nothing about it. We now live in
anxious expectation of further devastation. The government, flaccid abroad,
reacts chiefly against Americans. Surveillance of the population grows, police
powers advance, and governmental accountability diminishes.

The importance of the conflict with Islam is not easily calculated nor its
consequences predicted. Will there be further attacks a la New York? A
government unable to protect the country, widely detested at home, and
respected nowhere is not a recipe for fealty. We are getting there.
Institutions fall when they cease to work, or when people believe that they
have ceased to work.

What could provoke-what? A coup? Revolution? Nothing that I can imagine. The
control of communications is too great, the passivity of the white population
near absolute. People have enough to eat and five hundred cable channels. The
military is safely emasculated.

The likelihood, I think, is that we will muddle on, dissatisfied but not too
dissatisfied, turning into whatever we are turning into, learning obedience.
Yet the tension is there. Remember the LA riots. Nothing lasts forever, not
even America. A fascinating question is when and how it will stop lasting.

[Qbert]

-- Old Thread Revival Program --

LOL @ what peeps were discussing back in 2002...and LOL, who are these guys posting anyways?

[LaZeR]

:wtf: and :wtf: were they talking about?