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View Full Version : Need advice on MB upgrade.


Demanufakture
08-28-05, 12:59 AM
I am looking into replacing my motherboard because I am just tired of the 5 second pause/stutter issue. Also, on top of that, my cmos battery has died because of a thunder storm cutting my power and when I rebooted I got the cmos checksum error. Happens every time I disconnect my power. Means it's dead I'm pretty sure. Anyways, I am of course not looking to buy another nforce 3 board seeing as how nvidia is never going to fix the issues with it. I was looking around and found this motherboard. The MSI K8T Neo-V VIA K8T800@$62.99 for my athlon 64 3400+,1MB L2 Cache cpu. Is this a good motherboard? Are the drivers for this board easy to install like forceware drivers? Any advice would be much appreciated. I just have to get rid of this p.o.s. Nforce 3! :mad:

PaiN
08-28-05, 05:50 AM
If you're going VIA, then imo the the best mobo to use in the Asus A8V-D (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240412) and make extra sure you get the rev 2.0 version

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 08:01 AM
I dont know why but I never had ANY issues with my nF3 250Gb motherboard(MSI K8N Neo).first run of my A64 3400+,6800Ultra AGP system had pauses,hiccups with any 3d application.

all I had to do was turning off the AGP Fast Write in bios,problem solved!never seen any pauses after that not even once.I could easily recreat the problem by turning on the AGP Fast Write.

Superfly
08-28-05, 08:17 AM
Im VERY impressed with the layout and features of my ABIT AV8-3rd Eye - Uses the K8T800 chipset.

cant speak for performance yet as im waitin on the chip to go with it.

Demanufakture
08-28-05, 11:41 AM
I dont know why but I never had ANY issues with my nF3 250Gb motherboard(MSI K8N Neo).first run of my A64 3400+,6800Ultra AGP system had pauses,hiccups with any 3d application.

all I had to do was turning off the AGP Fast Write in bios,problem solved!never seen any pauses after that not even once.I could easily recreat the problem by turning on the AGP Fast Write.

This used to work for me as well. It seems that my BIOS settings never stay anymore after I reboot. Can this be caused by my motherboard cmos battery? Should I just replace the battery, if I can, and forget about upgrading? Having my agp fast writes off totally got rid of the stutters for me as well that were caused by nvidia's 7x.xx drivers. 6x.xx could run with agp fast writes on without stutters. Anyways, since my cmos battery died, it seems now that my all of my games exhibit this stutter now. Even though I have fast writes off. My theory is that because my CMOS battery is dead, maybe after I reboot the computer doesn't remember the settings I saved to the CMOS and goes back to fail safe defaults or something. I think I am going to try replacing my CMOS battery and see if all goes back to normal. Any feedback on this would be much appreciated.

CaptNKILL
08-28-05, 11:58 AM
This used to work for me as well. It seems that my BIOS settings never stay anymore after I reboot. Can this be caused by my motherboard cmos battery? Should I just replace the battery, if I can, and forget about upgrading? Having my agp fast writes off totally got rid of the stutters for me as well that were caused by nvidia's 7x.xx drivers. 6x.xx could run with agp fast writes on without stutters. Anyways, since my cmos battery died, it seems now that my all of my games exhibit this stutter now. Even though I have fast writes off. My theory is that because CMOS battery is dead, maybe after I reboot the computer doesn't remember the settings I saved to the CMOS and goes back to fail safe defaults or something. I think I am going to try replacing my CMOS battery and see if all goes back to normal.
Heh, yeah thats what the battery is there for, to save the CMOS settings and the time. If the battery goes (or you take it out) itl reset your CMOS to default settings.

Just pop the battery out and take it to a Radioshack or something and they will give you the right kind. Itl be a couple dollars probably, but itl work (assuming thats the only problem with your system).

If you dont have a Radioshack or any other electronic stores it might be harder to find one, but I've seen them at Walmart. Lots of things use these batteries, not just BIOS chips.

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 12:09 PM
yea that ought to be it,the dead battery.btw turning off the AGP fast write had actually no impact on performance as long as i remember so just turn it off.

and then comes the little trick with AGP Aperture size.I did set it to 256(with one gig of memory and the 256Mb of Vram on 6800 Ultra)to be able to play DooM iii at ultra+ quality 1280 1024 4aa 16af without any pauses when entering new parts of the map(opening doors) or else there used to be a pause there.

I guess this applies to any other game that uses loads of textures.may not completely remove the pause for some like BF2 but helps for sure.

Demanufakture
08-28-05, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the advice. I am going to try and replace the battery. Thanks.

Demanufakture
08-28-05, 05:14 PM
Well I bought a new battery and when I turned on my pc i did not recieve a checksum error. I did have to reset my time of course. I think it is working now. I'll report back if I run into any problems.

betterdan
08-28-05, 05:29 PM
I dont know why but I never had ANY issues with my nF3 250Gb motherboard(MSI K8N Neo).first run of my A64 3400+,6800Ultra AGP system had pauses,hiccups with any 3d application.

all I had to do was turning off the AGP Fast Write in bios,problem solved!never seen any pauses after that not even once.I could easily recreat the problem by turning on the AGP Fast Write.

Umm that IS a problem. Having to turn off fast writes may not be a big one but it is indeed a problem that shouldn't be happening especially when Nvidia makes the vid card support fast writes and the chipset also then have it not work correctly together.

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 05:55 PM
AGP Fast Write is a nice feature and improves performance for older AGP cards like AGP4X cards.

for AGP 8X cards it has no real benefit.might as well creat problems.i guess its there in AGP Mobo bioses becuause its an AGP feature and there might be people out there who want to use AGP4X cards(like good old Ti4600) on their nForce3 motherborads so they cant just drop the AGP Fast Write.so you see actually not removing the FastWrite from mobo bios is benefical to some users.

"AGP Fast Writes
A feature of the AGP 2.0 specification. When not using Fast Writes, the CPU sends all the video data to the system RAM and then notifies the Northbridge chip and graphics adapter that it is available for use. The graphics adapter then instructs the Northbridge chip that it is ready for this data and copies across the relevant material into the local memory. If Fast Write transactions are enabled, the CPU simply writes data directly into the local memory without caching it in the system RAM.

The advantage behind this is that if the bandwidth of the system RAM is particularly weak, then potential additional speed can be gained by not having to constantly write-read data to and from the system RAM. The disadvantage is that very tight signalling tolerances are required by all the components for fast write transactions to run successfully. "

todays systems have more memory bandwidth there isnt that much suffering anymore plus the AGP 3.0 standard that AGP 8X cards use has a raised transfer rate of 533MHz.also new motherboards are much more complicated and maintaining that signalling mentioned above gets harder,heck its not even needed anymore.(maybe just for the odd cases of supporting users with old cards as I mentioned above)

old features become incompatible with new ones,thats the way it goes.

betterdan
08-28-05, 06:49 PM
All I know is it helps performance with my AMD system (even though the performance increase is slight it is still there)when it is on and I have to turn it off with an Nvidia video card and Nvidia chipset that it is supported on.
You say older features become incompatible with newer ones. Well the 6800GT and the Nforce 3 chipset both support fast writes (both use older features according to you) but yet when both are used together they don't work with fast writes on so yes that IS a problem whether you want to admit it or not.
AGP fast writes works fine on my P4 3.06 system and a 6800GT.

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 07:07 PM
well Its because the 6800GT is an AGP8X graphics card and even at the time of AGP4X cards AGP FastWrite had its problems:

"The disadvantage is that very tight signalling tolerances are required by all the components for fast write transactions to run successfully. At the moment, only a handful of graphics chips support the use of AGP Fast Writes and many manufacturers choose to disable the function in the video BIOS to prevent any potential problems occurring."

and there is no performance advantage using it for at least Geforce 6800 Cards that I can say for sure cuz i had one .

how your system is getting advantage over using fastwrite?I encourage you to read the information I posted above.

you are going to see performance advantage if your sytem suffers from very weak memory bandwidth,kinda like when AGP4X cards first came out.(not your case)

and again you going to see performance boost using fastwites if you are using a AGP4X card that has a transfer rate of 266 Mhz to compensate for its low tranfer rate.(you are using a AGP8X card so not your case again).

I dont think supporting large scale of users with different graphics cards is something to blame.

you dont need it.you dont take advantage turning it on.its not there for you.then you turn it on and blame nvidia!

betterdan
08-28-05, 07:16 PM
I encourage you to read my words slowly. There is a performance increase with it on in my system although a small increase it is still there. I have the card in my system and I have seen it first hand on an AMD 3800+ system with great memory bandwidth. You can either believe me or not it doesn't matter but don't try to misinform people please by saying you have had no problems yet you yourself said you had freezing problems until you performed a workaround by turning fast writes off. One question for you why did you have them enabled if it doesn't help? Was it because they were supported and you figured it should work ok with them on? Hmm sounds like a problem doesn't it?

I dont think supporting large scale of users with different graphics cards is something to blame.
I don't think it is sinking in sir, Nvidia made the 6800 GT and the Nforce 3 chipset and they made them support fast writes yet you can't use the supported features. You would think they would have tested their very own cards with their very own chipsets wouldn't you? Kinda lame huh?

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 07:39 PM
but don't try to misinform people please by saying you have had no problems yet you yourself said you had freezing problems until you performed a workaround by turning fast writes off

I'm not misinforming people I quoted what is the meaning of AGP Fast Write and AGP8X,where did misinforming come from?

I didnt turn the AGP Fast Writes on it was on by default in the first run then I disabled it because i dont believe in forcing FW on to make my system unstable for no reason.I had issues with the wrong config and no issues with the right config.

I don't think it is sinking in sir, Nvidia made the 6800 GT and the Nforce 3 chipset and they made them support fast writes yet you can't use the supported features. You would think they would have tested their very own cards with their very own chipsets wouldn't you? Kinda lame huh?

oh i see,the problem is there.you see nVIDIA didnt activate support for AGP Fast Write in their 6xxx series! it is part of the older AGP2.0 standard and upward (and nVIDIA didnt invent AGP2.0 standard either).so basically when you make a AGP card based on AGP3.0 standard you put in all thats there according to standards,including or excluding fastwrite is not your choice to make.

again AGP4X cards benefit from AGP FastWrite so its there for those cards.

and AGP8X doesnt benefit from AGP FastWrite because of the facts I Quoted above plus my own experience.

nVIDIA is not to blame for using industry standards and supporting users with old cards.

There is a performance increase with it on although a small increase it is still there. I have the card in my system and I have seen it first hand on an AMD 3800+ system with great memory bandwidth. You can either believe me or not

I believe what i saw on my own system and the logical explanations I quoted.

yet you insist on gaining that little marginal increase (that you said you experienced anyway) while sacrificing system stability?

its funny tho how you saw performance increase while you say it was stuttering!?!

btw I really hope you find a way to force FW with your 6800 and get no stuttering.I really do betterdan.I just turned it off.

nas82
08-28-05, 07:54 PM
I'm not misinforming people I quoted what is the meaning of AGP Fast Write and AGP8X,where did misinforming come from?

I didnt turn the AGP Fast Writes on it was on by default in the first run then I disabled it because i dont believe in forcing FW on to make my system unstable for no reason.I had issues with the wrong config and no issues with the right config.



oh i see,the problem is there.you see nVIDIA didnt activate support for AGP Fast Write in their 6xxx series! it is part of the older AGP2.0 standard and upward (and nVIDIA didnt invent AGP2.0 standard either).so basically when you make a AGP card based on AGP3.0 standard you put in all thats there according to standards,including or excluding fastwrite its not your choice to make.

again AGP4X cards benefit from AGP FastWrite so its there for those cards.

and AGP8X doesnt benefit from AGP FastWrite because of the facts I Quoted above plus my own experience.

nVIDIA is not to blame for using industry standards and supporting users with old cards.



I believe what i saw on my own system and the logical explanations I quoted.

yet you insist on gaining that little marginal increase (that you said you experienced anyway) while sacrificing system stability?

its funny tho how you saw performance increase while you say it was stuttering!?!

I suffer no instability when i use fastwrites, but i do gain better fps in games and less cpu usage when watching videos when enabled.

My video card is a 6800GT, my motherboard is an Abit AV8.

So what instability are you talking about?

betterdan
08-28-05, 07:55 PM
I can only tell you what I saw on my system. Benchmarks were higher and cpu useage was lower while watching HD videos. My sytem didn't freeze in all things with AGP fast writes on or off. It would do it randomly so some benchmarks and games would run sometimes fine then the next time BAM it would have freeze ups. I actually turned fast writes off and it still froze at random times just not as often it seemed so that isn't the solution to the freezing on my system and lots of others if you care to read the other thread about the freezing problem which I encourage you to do.
I had to end up modding the vid card bios to give it 1.4 volts in 3d and that has stopped the freezing unless i overclock it even a little then the freeze ups come back.

I'm sorry but your statement that turning them on in my system will have no advantage is completely wrong.
By the way I can live without fast writes on but it would be nice if Nvidia would fix this problem so that it would work as advertised.

FraGTastiK
08-28-05, 08:14 PM
@nas82

i was talking about betterdans nForce3 chipset.

but I'm like ??? it doesnt make sense.actually if we consider the situations in wich FW makes up for a benefit it would be illogical if we see any gains in your case nas82.

technically it has no benefits and i havnt seen any. plus its a fact that FW as a feature has problems even back at AGP4X times.also it has very tight signalling tolerances .but it would have been great if you guys could force FW in your systems.

nas82
08-28-05, 08:54 PM
But i do see gains when i enable fastwrites. I don't force fastwrites on my system.
When i installed my motherboard and installing my 6800GT, and clearing the bios before even powering up, my fastwrites was enabled by default.

The brand of my video card is the Asus 6800GT 256 ram.

betterdan
08-28-05, 09:06 PM
Yep same here nas82 except I have a PNY 6800GT.

Demanufakture
08-30-05, 02:51 AM
Ok, my stuttering problem has not been fixed. My motherboard is no good anymore. I need some suggestions. Should I just forget about my nforce 3 and get a VIA motherboard? I have an AMD Athlon 64 3400+ and need a mb, less the $100, that doesn't have the 5 second pause/stutter issue. I hear that VIA boards work perfectly fine with the latest drivers and the 6800 gt. Is this true? If so, I'm definetly going VIA unless there is some other reason I shouldn't like the gfx corruption issues some people sometime have. Need your suggestions.