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View Full Version : There will be NO PCIe X-Fi... Here's Why:


jAkUp
08-31-05, 04:02 PM
As far as PCI Express (PCIe) is concerned, which is the next bus, what we found is that the performance of PCIe is truly bad for audio. We are seeing four times degradation on the bus for audio.

PCIe is designed for graphics and high data transfer, but audio sends very small packets and the overhead can be very big! Moving the data across PCIe is much, much higher than PCI. So what we have to do is go back to the drawing board and work on the transport part of the chip and re-design it to add more silicon to overcome some of the problems we had with PCIe. So for us to come up with a PCIe solution is going to take a while because we have to overcome the problems we're facing with that bus.

guru3d (http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=3005)

Nutty
08-31-05, 04:15 PM
Screw X-FI. I'm waiting for SSII on nForce5 :)

Mr_LoL
08-31-05, 04:16 PM
Really. So those slots are pretty pointless then.

ViN86
08-31-05, 04:31 PM
well at least the physics processor will be PCIe ;)

jolle
08-31-05, 04:33 PM
guru3d (http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=3005)

Sounds more like "Why there IS NO PCI-E..." then "there will BE NO PCI-E".
last I heard its on their roadmap due for a later release, and this interview didnt dispell that.

So for us to come up with a PCIe solution is going to take a while because we have to overcome the problems we're facing with that bus.

retsam
08-31-05, 06:16 PM
sounds like just a lame excuse from a lame sound card company.

extreme4377
08-31-05, 06:37 PM
sounds like just a lame excuse from a lame sound card company.

or lazy. Theres no competition really. Besides the HDA X-Mystique, there really isnt many other "good" sound cards out there. Look at everyone's systems, more or less, 90% of them have Audigy's.

tristancarton
08-31-05, 06:38 PM
i am calling bs. anyone know if his allegations are true?(pci-e bus takes up more cpu resources than the pci bus) doesn't seem right. my guess is that they are saying no pci-e right now because they want the pci versions to sell well. then when everyone has them they will pop out and say we fixed the pci-e problem here is the pci-e version.

netviper13
08-31-05, 07:02 PM
or lazy. Theres no competition really. Besides the HDA X-Mystique, there really isnt many other "good" sound cards out there. Look at everyone's systems, more or less, 90% of them have Audigy's.

With everything moving to its own dedicated bus, and the relatively smaller amounts of bandwidth that a sound card presently uses, why is there a need to change the interface of the sound card? That's like taking a floppy drive and putting it on a SATA interface - regardless of the potential of the new bus, you're not going to be utilizing any of it.

retsam
08-31-05, 07:12 PM
am calling bs. anyone know if his allegations are true?(pci-e bus takes up more cpu resources than the pci bus) doesn't seem right. my guess is that they are saying no pci-e right now because they want the pci versions to sell well. then when everyone has them they will pop out and say we fixed the pci-e problem here is the pci-e version. well pci-e is a packeted bass interface ...sort of like tcp/ip... so yes there is overhead from encapsulation of the packets... but i would tend to think that the speed alone and high bandwidth would outwieght the overhead of a packeted based interface...and from what i know the latency of pci-e is lower then pci 2.1 so this sounds like pure b.s to me

retsam
08-31-05, 07:31 PM
i guess i was wrong .... yes there is significant overhead to pci-e ...i should have know.... after working with tcp/ip with small mtu sizes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-Express but i still stand by my statement that this is just an excuse ....

$n][pErMan
08-31-05, 07:43 PM
With everything moving to its own dedicated bus, and the relatively smaller amounts of bandwidth that a sound card presently uses, why is there a need to change the interface of the sound card? That's like taking a floppy drive and putting it on a SATA interface - regardless of the potential of the new bus, you're not going to be utilizing any of it.
I agree. There is no need for 16x PCI on a sound card yet.. its overkill and would add no performance increase what so ever at this point. Hell... not even video cards can fully use it yet :p I say good move on Creatives part.. as it will also allow people to continue using thier current motherboards and setups without need to upgrade.

gram_vaz
08-31-05, 08:09 PM
from what i've read pci-e will benefit sound cards due to their latency and other technical crap i don't understand with the result that sound card problems like crackling and popping will be eliminated.

aAv7
08-31-05, 08:16 PM
from what i've read pci-e will benefit sound cards due to their latency and other technical crap i don't understand with the result that sound card problems like crackling and popping will be eliminated.

Audigy not associated with sound crackling! :eek: I'll believe it when I see...er..hear it.

jolle
08-31-05, 08:41 PM
[pErMan']I agree. There is no need for 16x PCI on a sound card yet.. its overkill and would add no performance increase what so ever at this point. Hell... not even video cards can fully use it yet :p I say good move on Creatives part.. as it will also allow people to continue using thier current motherboards and setups without need to upgrade.
It would be using 1x or 4x on PCI-E, which is still plenty compared to PCI.
1x is 255mb/sec (about 500 aggregate) dedicated fullduplex bandwidth, compared to 133mb/sec shared halfduplex on PCI.

I guess they simply dont feel like making the adjustments to have it working on the PCI-E protocol instead of PCI.
PCI-E seems to have somewhat higher CPU overhead, but I dont really se what they mean about the size of the data chunks, I thought both are 32bit wide.

Rakeesh
08-31-05, 11:06 PM
from what i've read pci-e will benefit sound cards due to their latency and other technical crap i don't understand with the result that sound card problems like crackling and popping will be eliminated.

No, if anything this would eliminate audio jitter which doesn't really sound like that, and soundcards don't really (not sure if they do, have never heard it in one before) experience audio jitter, even on the older ISA soundcards. Usually when a soundcard crackles or pops it is because of other devices inside of the PC causing EM interference on the cards DAC. With the first SBlive, creative claimed they had a new DAC that fixed this problem, but it didn't (Maybe made it less severe? I don't know for certain, all I know is that it still exists and is audible with headphones.)

The only way I know of fixing this is to use a purely digital audio solution where you don't relie on a DAC being inside of the computer.

jolle
09-01-05, 03:57 AM
So the crackling isnt related to the PCI bus switching around between connected units? As I understand it the bus only works with one unit device at a time, and only one direction at a time, so I thought that was the problem there.
I would have thought EM interference would be more of a buzzing or humming.

edit
I guess if it happens on intergrated sound, its not the PCI bus, since they are usually not on the PCI bus anymore.