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Nv40
09-02-05, 02:13 AM
First it was theHD DVD drive ,later harddisk. some developers not happy with M$ for this.

and now According to Ageias Phyx people: the Xbox360 will not be able to handle fluids simulations because the hardware is limited.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143371


And the bonus ..

Keyboards plugged in via USB cannot function as a controller for games but can be used to input text.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60737

Microsoft says no keyboard/mouse for control in games.
Mmm.. Why support an USB keyboard/mouse and not allow developers to use them for games control but just to input text ? for what else they will really want a keyboard to chat with messenger ? :rolleyes: or perhaps to enter your credit card info when they request you to pay to play online.

THats really stupid inmho.. No keyboard/mouse/HD for games looks like M$ is doing all they can to not sell their console . :thumbdwn:

Ninja Prime
09-02-05, 03:16 AM
Big surprize there fanboy, the company that purchased your physics libraries saying how great they are whilst dissing the competition? NO WAY!!! IT CAN'T BE!!111!11!

Please do us a favor and leave your fanboism in your head where it belongs.

GamerGuyX
09-02-05, 03:24 AM
Big surprize there fanboy, the company that purchased your physics libraries saying how great they are whilst dissing the competition? NO WAY!!! IT CAN'T BE!!111!11!

Please do us a favor and leave your fanboism in your head where it belongs.

You are my hero. :wonder:

GamerGuyX
09-02-05, 03:29 AM
Hmm well look at what I just found.

From what we gather, being that it is 3am in Europe, is that this was a statement taken out of context from a presentation at GDC Europe.

Source:

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=370239

Arioch
09-02-05, 03:39 AM
Phantom ownz you all.

Nv40
09-02-05, 04:42 AM
Hmm well look at what I just found.


Source:

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=370239


The quotes are real.. people that were there confirmed this. Similar information was told in two diferent conferences. one in europe another in japan... the "information" you posted comes from a reply in email of someone that have no clue on the topic (just like you) and that neither knows what was told at the game developers conference in europe ,perhaps it was the company secretary.

THe most interesting part of their PR email reply... to a few guys in one forum.


I know of no detailed analysis regarding the advantages or disadvantages of the different architectures in physics processing. We will be getting in contact with the presenter in Europe to get further clarification tomorrow when everyone is up and about.


:rolleyes:

FOr the others that thinks this was merely a rumour and think i made all this read
here.. (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum//showthread.php?t=23158)

PeterJensen
09-02-05, 04:45 AM
The quotes are real.. from the conferences.. the email you posted to the a company's secretary that wasnt at the conference does not deny the info. :rolleyes:

On a mission to promote PS3...Jesus give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Nv40
09-02-05, 05:30 AM
On a mission to promote PS3...Jesus give it a rest. :rolleyes:


So what?
We need to filter the bad news and only post the positive ones? :confused:
THis is the console forum.. and anyone is free to promote the console they want.

Rakeesh
09-02-05, 10:52 AM
So what?
We need to filter the bad news and only post the positive ones? :confused:
THis is the console forum.. and anyone is free to promote the console they want.

What, are you a PS3 salesman? Jesus freaking christ, I don't think I have seen a bigger fanboy. And you didn't seem to heed my advice about thinking before you post.

PeterJensen
09-02-05, 10:54 AM
Take a look.

Hello Asand:



We appreciate your asking about this subject. From what we gather, being that it is 3am in Europe, is that this was a statement taken out of context from a presentation at GDC Europe.



The Xbox 360 currently processes our SDK, and therefore supports the simulation of fluids. We believe this statement was refering to a generic long term statement about types of architectures for handling certain types of fluids. I know of no detailed analysis regarding the advantages or disadvantages of the different architectures in physics processing. We will be getting in contact with the presenter in Europe to get further clarification tomorrow when everyone is up and about.



Does this clarify things for you?



Kim
From: Hasan Ahmad [mailto:xxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:18 PM
To: kim@kimstowe.com; general@ageia.com; bizdev@ageia.com
Subject: Clarification of Company Comments

Tygerwoody
09-02-05, 11:34 AM
I swear, Xbox fanboi's are the most unhappy/mad people in this world. Always on the defense.....

GamerGuyX
09-02-05, 11:54 AM
I swear, Xbox fanboi's are the most unhappy/mad people in this world. Always on the defense.....


Oh please. I know you Sony fanboy's would be moaning and bitching if this was about the PS3. http://forums.raiden.net/images/smiles/097.gif

PeterJensen
09-02-05, 11:59 AM
Well i for one cant se the problem. Also Inq statet that the GPU in the PS3 would be slower then the 7800, so lets all belive that to.

BioHazZarD
09-02-05, 01:48 PM
Oh please. I know you Sony fanboy's would be moaning and bitching if this was about the PS3. http://forums.raiden.net/images/smiles/097.gif

No we would blaim sony simple as that. :eek:

GamerGuyX
09-02-05, 02:03 PM
No we would blaim sony simple as that. :eek:

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

six_storm
09-02-05, 03:02 PM
OMG both the PS3 and 360 will be very nice systems, end of story.

slick
09-02-05, 04:40 PM
No. Way.

You mean a that a middleware program completely based around complex math equations works better on a cell processor (which is specifically designed to crunch numbers) then it does on a tri3.2ghz GPP? :rolleyes:

Meet HydraCore. (http://www.havok.com/products/hydracore.php)

I don't care if some other physics engine doesn't work well with the 360. What I do care about is that Havok 3.1 and HydraCore will kick absolute ass on the 360. Much more then the fact that some middleware company can't hack a physics engine to work on a tri3.2ghz system.

oldsk00l
09-02-05, 06:38 PM
and talking about all this until it debuts means....oh that's right

nothing

Getting up and doing this whole "PS3 pwnerz" or "360 pwnerz" is getting old. It reminds me of a group of 3rd graders back in the day going "NINTENDO SUCKS" "NO SEGA SUCKS!!!" and having absolutely nothing substantive as to why the other one "sucks" other than the simple fact that the arguement is retarded.

Oh well.

npras42
09-02-05, 06:43 PM
oldskool is right. Every single thread in this console forum that relates to PS3/X360 hardware and development is retarded.

I know that I have posted in may of them, and I don't care what that makes me, but its still true.

Nv40
09-02-05, 07:50 PM
No. Way.

You mean a that a middleware program completely based around complex math equations works better on a cell processor (which is specifically designed to crunch numbers) then it does on a tri3.2ghz GPP? :rolleyes:

Meet HydraCore. (http://www.havok.com/products/hydracore.php)

I don't care if some other physics engine doesn't work well with the 360. What I do care about is that Havok 3.1 and HydraCore will kick absolute ass on the 360. Much more then the fact that some middleware company can't hack a physics engine to work on a tri3.2ghz system.


ITs not about the engine.. Havok and Novodex and any other physics engine will work well in Sony and Microsoft consoles and PC's. THe news here is that Physics HArdware aceleration ->the popular PHysics Card ,from Ageias will work well in highend PC's and in PS3's. but not in Xbox360 , because of its hardware limitations. You need to use 2 cores of the 3 the xbox360 have to make it work. ANd this leave no enough room for the game ,AI ,SOund and all others things the represent a game.. It will slow dow too much the console. This will not be a problem for the PS3 since it have SEVEN SPE processors. that each one were designed for very heavy physics in mind. :) Thats why SOny/IBM realtime techdemos ,where heavily focused in physics.. ,same it will be with their games.

This doesnt means that Physics ,fluids will not be possible in the Xbox360. Game with good physics will work just fine. . only means that PS3 will have the advantage of a way more advanced physics than the xbox3. But this should be no news after all ,since it was already stated by everyone else in the industry that the PS3 was significantly more powerfull with FLoating point operations console vs console cpu. hence the Ps3 have *SEVEN* of those. vs 1 triple core cpu in the new Xbox. the only news is that the physics card will only work at its full potential in the PS3 .Allowing to push the console capabilities to a whole new level.

Rakeesh
09-02-05, 08:19 PM
I see where this is about to go...

ITs not about the engine.. Havok and Novodex and any other physics engine will work well in Sony and Micro$oft consoles and PC's. AND TEh Xb0x0r 360 is GReEn foR teH $ in MIcro$OFT!!!11!oneone!one1exclamation. GReen SUx PS3 PUrplE PWNS GReeN becoz gREEN SUx WTFROFLOMGLOL.

Ninja Prime
09-02-05, 08:26 PM
ITs not about the engine.. Havok and Novodex and any other physics engine will work well in Sony and Microsoft consoles and PC's. THe news here is that Physics HArdware aceleration ->the popular PHysics Card ,from Ageias will work well in highend PC's and in PS3's. but not in Xbox360 , because of its hardware limitations. You need to use 2 cores of the 3 the xbox360 have to make it work. ANd this leave no enough room for the game ,AI ,SOund and all others things the represent a game.. It will slow dow too much the console. This will not be a problem for the PS3 since it have SEVEN SPE processors. that each one were designed for very heavy physics in mind. :) Thats why SOny/IBM realtime techdemos ,where heavily focused in physics.. ,same it will be with their games.

This doesnt means that Physics ,fluids will not be possible in the Xbox360. Game with good physics will work just fine. . only means that PS3 will have the advantage of a way more advanced physics than the xbox3. But this should be no news after all ,since it was already stated by everyone else in the industry that the PS3 was significantly more powerfull with FLoating point operations console vs console cpu. hence the Ps3 have *SEVEN* of those. vs 1 triple core cpu in the new Xbox. the only news is that the physics card will only work at its full potential in the PS3 .Allowing to push the console capabilities to a whole new level.

I swear you just pull this stuff out of your ass... where do get the idea that you would need to use 2 cores...? Where do you get any of this, besides fanboy land?

GamerGuyX
09-02-05, 08:36 PM
I swear you just pull this stuff out of your ass... where do get the idea that you would need to use 2 cores...? Where do you get any of this, besides fanboy land?

OMG... dude words... they just can't describe how much I agree with you in this thread. This is the kind of **** that pisses me off when it comes to Nv40. I mean the guy... he can't even type correctly. Yet he expects us to believe all this stuff he says (which we can barily read in the first place) without ever providing any proof. I mean I'm telling you, I do not hate this guy because I'm a fanboy myself. Hell, just ask jonk, he would tell you I'm a Sony fanboy if anything. As you can see though, I'm defending Microsoft and the Xbox 360 because what Nv40 says is utter crap. I just cannot stand the amount of fud this guy spreads. :mad:

/end rant

Nv40
09-02-05, 08:52 PM
I swear you just pull this stuff out of your ass... where do get the idea that you would need to use 2 cores...? Where do you get any of this, besides fanboy land?

Do your own research.. i dont work for you.. :rolleyes:
Take it or ignore it.. I dont care.. :)

slick
09-02-05, 10:12 PM
ITs not about the engine.. Havok and Novodex and any other physics engine will work well in Sony and Microsoft consoles and PC's. THe news here is that Physics HArdware aceleration ->the popular PHysics Card ,from Ageias will work well in highend PC's and in PS3's. but not in Xbox360 , because of its hardware limitations. You need to use 2 cores of the 3 the xbox360 have to make it work. ANd this leave no enough room for the game ,AI ,SOund and all others things the represent a game.. It will slow dow too much the console. This will not be a problem for the PS3 since it have SEVEN SPE processors. that each one were designed for very heavy physics in mind. :) Thats why SOny/IBM realtime techdemos ,where heavily focused in physics.. ,same it will be with their games.

This doesnt means that Physics ,fluids will not be possible in the Xbox360. Game with good physics will work just fine. . only means that PS3 will have the advantage of a way more advanced physics than the xbox3. But this should be no news after all ,since it was already stated by everyone else in the industry that the PS3 was significantly more powerfull with FLoating point operations console vs console cpu. hence the Ps3 have *SEVEN* of those. vs 1 triple core cpu in the new Xbox. the only news is that the physics card will only work at its full potential in the PS3 .Allowing to push the console capabilities to a whole new level.


Wow, where do I start.

First off, no, the cell was not designed with physics in mind. The cell wasn't even designed with gaming in mind. The cell processor is a mini super computer. It was designed to crunch extremely large amounts of numbers very quickly, hence the reason it kills in floating point operations, consequently this makes it good for physics, but physics for gaming was probably the last thing on their mind. Next time I am playing Calculus: Ultimate I will be sure to take note the speed at which it solves the problems.

The Sony tech demos, espcially the one for Killzone 2/3 had HORRIBLE physics. I mean, not to go anti-sony on their asses for just showing CG, when I first watched that movie I was amazed as everyone else, but I noticed right away how horrible the physics were on that. Watch that APC get blown up after they all get off of it and see all the huge metal chunks skipping over the ground like a bouncy ball with almost no friction. When that helicopter gets blown up and crashes into the people/bridge and keeps on rolling... wtf? A 10 ton helicopter falling out of the sky does not ricochet off a bridge and then roll on the ground, bouncing along. When a helicopter pile-drives a bridge and the ground, it doesn't bounce. It A) Blows up or B) slams into the ground, digging a trench along with it, slowly coming to a halt. Maybes it's just me, but I wasn't impressed by it [physics-wise] at all.

No, the PhysX processor doesn't work well with the 360 because it was not DESIGNED for it. Sorry that the 360 is designed from the ground up straight for gaming, but just tossing another processor on doesn't work. PS3 still has time to integrate it if they should so choose to. Putting that on system where every part is intimately designed to work directly with each other in a highly specific fashion probably won't go over so hot. Even if it does get the PhysX processor, then it will just be catching up. 360 gets free 4x FSAA, PS3 gets free PhysX.

I also fail to see how the PhysX engine is any better then Havok. I think it's safe to say that HL2 is by far the most advanced game in physics to date. Guess what. That uses Havok. I cannot wait to see Havok 3+ and HydraCore. I believe it will be just as good as anything that AGEIA will put out, and untill I see otherwise, I will stand by that assumption.






Next time you want to argue a point, please don't get your facts from www.ps3fanbois.com


And for the love of god, learn correct grammar, picking that post apart was a chore.