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View Full Version : Keep the 6800GT or sell it for X800 XL + 32 bucks


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KickAssCop
09-06-05, 06:19 AM
Ok first off, I have switched cards like crazy all of this year. I have gone through about 3 6800GTs, 1 X800 XL, 1 X800 XT PE, about 16 6600GTs and maybe a 9800 Pro too in between. Now I finally decided to settle down with a video card that will last me till say December or if I am lucky and there are no games pushing my card to its limit, then Febuary 2006.

My gaming rig as you see in my system is fairly decent. It can hold its own w/ a stock A64 3500+ and my 6800GT clocks to Ultra spec without breaking a sweat.

I have the following offer on the table,

X800 XL + 32 USD = 6800GT.

Issues are:

1) X800 XL is used for over 3-4 months
2) 6800GT is brand new with 3 year warranty (have to register)
3) X800 XL, when I used it was better in terms of crisp image quality (personal preference not engraved in stone)
4) 6800GT has lots of FPS spikes in games when I am using full settings (1600*1200 4xAA 8xAF) whereas, X800 XL performed considerably smooth albiet with 2-5 fps lower.
5) 6800GT has SM3.0 whereas X800 XL is still working on technology which is about 3 years old now (I know about SM2.0b, but rarely anyone uses it and I am done playing far cry :rolleyes: )

So please for the love of the LORD, without spamming, breaking arguments, posting driver issues, or anything of this sort just tell me will it be worth it to switch back to X800 XL? Or shall I keep the 6800GT and not get extra 32 bucks?

I wish I could make this a poll only thread, so that there are no flame wars, and mods please do not close this thread, its really important for me.

Thanks.

P.S. This is an AGP only discussion.

SH64
09-06-05, 09:37 AM
Hmm tough choice , but i would stick with the GT. you'll quickly feel bad about losing it when a game comes out & an option would be grayed for you .. if you know what i mean ;)

zoomy942
09-06-05, 10:25 AM
keep the GT. the x800XL is a great card for anyone with less than a 6800GT. but you have SM3.0 and Ultrashadow II. besides, they perform almost exactly the same.

AthlonXP1800
09-06-05, 10:46 AM
Keep the 6800GT, X800 XL will be useless later this month, you will enjoy with Age of Empire 3 demo due out this month. :D

On Age of Empire 3 forum (http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=1&tn=23358&f=0,0,0,0&st=100), the developer said X800 series card with SM2.0 will not support HDR as it require SM3.0 as minimum to support it:

As we've said countless times, that gen of ATI card (e.g. X800) doesn't fully support the things we need for our HDR solution, thus it's not a high end card by our definition. The newer ATI cards and the 6800+ cards from NVidia would be higher level cards by this defn.

HighTest
09-06-05, 02:00 PM
I see that you've posted this poll on Rage3D as well. Interesting do see the opposite trend. What do you think when you post in the respective FanSites?

I would think it would be best to plan on what you really want. Do you want full precission HDR? Do you want SM 3.0?

Any answer "yes" to any of those makes the decision simple as no shipping ATI card at any price level provides those features.

SH64
09-06-05, 02:10 PM
Yeah i've seen the poll in R3D aswell .. quite a difference i should say ;)

wheeljack12
09-06-05, 02:14 PM
I would go 6800 GT. My Brother had a x850 pe and he (rather I did for him) sell it off for a 6800 ultra agp 8x. Basically, he is a FPS and Madden gamer. His FPS were fine but when madden 2005 was released, ati shortly released drivers within months after that would literally freeze the game for seconds then allow to play again. I made sure it wasn't a antivirus or some startup program too. Because the exact same thing happened when I played 2006 on his pc. Like it has been said, SM 3.0,etc. along with the features. Look, at 1600x1200, even with the highest end cpu, a 8x agp will slow down. So, the 6800 gt at 1280x1024 should be fine for the 6800 gt. BTW, I am serious here and not spamming, how did you go through so many video cards in one year?

KickAssCop
09-06-05, 02:58 PM
That's what I am trying to evaluate, will HDR, SM3.0 etc be used extensively in the coming 4-6 months or not? Secondly, the poll is on both sites so that I can filter out the fanboys and get real responses.

I went through all of these cards, because I sell video cards. It all started in january with a 6800GT that I imported. Since then, it has been a ride. Now that I finally got around to settling for a card, I have this frickin offer on the table. As for 32 bucks, they are decent in my country. Like it can get me a decent case and 512 mb ram stick with little additional money.

aAv7
09-06-05, 03:28 PM
Forget the useless hdr functions. Forget the names on each box. Forget the fanboy loyalty both sides have, and just ask yourself one simple question, what API do you play more of and plan to play more of in the future? opengl or direct3d?

I owned a x800xl, awesome card, kills the gt in d3d, but it lacks opengl speed. And for me personally, with Quake 4 coming...I need that speedy opengl.

The 6800 gt doesnt handle d3d nearly as well as the x800xl, especially with the spikes in frames, but I feel it still handles 3d3 well enough.

I say hdr is useless cause farcry using hdr and splinter cell chaos theory using hdr have to be brought down to 1024x768 to get decent frames, and that's too low of a res to game for me personally. For you it might be acceptable.

It's a hard question to answer cause everyone has their own preference. Like I said, you just gotta think about what you play now and what you plan to play this winter.

I'd personally stick with the 6800gt.

But it the quality option shimmering or weaker d3d is a problem for you, then by all means grab the x800xl.

adpr 02
09-06-05, 03:41 PM
That's what I did. I love ATI, and really think that their drivers are supperior to Nvidia's. However, I ended up getting the 6600gt because of better price/perfocmance ration than ATI could dream of. Also I will probably end up getting the 7800, and not an ATI card as they seem to be a little bit (VERRY) slow this gen. :cool:

KickAssCop
09-06-05, 03:57 PM
aAv7, after going through so many cards, you just don't care. I don't care what resolution I am playing at, I don't care as to what AA or AF setting I am using, I just care for good image quality and for some reason, I like ATi's overall image better than nVidia's.

That is one story, now I love brand new cards, and since I got this brand new and this has 3 year warranty, I am more inclined to keeping this (be it for 4-6 months alone).

Then comes the issue of spikes, which annoy the hell out of me but 6800GT is by no means a slouch in D3D games, but the fps spikes are annoying as hell. But I just tried the FEAR demo and 6800GT stutterred less than X800 XL. (See I told you both company's drivers suck or are good in their own respects).

And I am eagerly awaiting these games, FEAR, Quake 4, Serious Sam 2, Age of Empires 3, all of which are supposed to be using features in 6800GT moreso than X800 XL, but when I use 2xAA on the 6800GT, shimmering due to aliasing on the 6800 series bugs the crap out of me (this is IQ issue not how much AA is usable).

So keeping all things in perspective, both cards have their pros and cons, I just can't decide which has enough pros for me to keep it. I have been through so many cards that hell I played CS 1.6 on intel extreme graphics for 1 month in between on 800*600, lowest quality and actually enjoyed it.

aAv7
09-06-05, 06:20 PM
The shimmering may be worked out, may not be. They fixed it for the G70 and High Quality, but Quality is still an issue. Who knows how long it will stay an issue.

The biggest issue/worry is nvidia may fix the quality mode for g70 but not for nv40. Most previous gen's are over-looked.

If IQ is your thing, what's more important to you, 3 extra instructions to barely qualify a game as 'sm3.0" or great IQ?

If res isnt an issue to you, then for IQ purposes I say ATI.

KickAssCop
09-07-05, 05:13 AM
The shimmering may be worked out, may not be. They fixed it for the G70 and High Quality, but Quality is still an issue. Who knows how long it will stay an issue.

The biggest issue/worry is nvidia may fix the quality mode for g70 but not for nv40. Most previous gen's are over-looked.

If IQ is your thing, what's more important to you, 3 extra instructions to barely qualify a game as 'sm3.0" or great IQ?

If res isnt an issue to you, then for IQ purposes I say ATI.
Shimmering due to aliasing cannot be worked out. ATi has less of it when running no AA and for some reason, console ports don't have AA (Cold Fear, Area 51, Bloodrayne 2 -- yes I play these games). And in them, IQ of 6800GT is quite worse as compared to X800 XL. But then again, feature set is an issue because I am a sucker for special effects. Decisions. Decisions.

fatal1ty
09-07-05, 09:18 AM
HDR and SM3.0 mean nothing when there is shimmering. Unfortunately game developers just look at features and not actual image quality - thus the push for hardware that can support it. SM2.0b on the ATi cards looks just as good as anything Ive seen using SM3.0, HDR is cool, but again I'd rather not have shimmering in my games. Will nvidia fix it? Who knows, but at this point I would have rather stuck with my X850XT PE than this 7800 GTX just due to the annoyance of shimmering in everything I play.

ATI has made strides with their drivers plus you can report any issues to them - their drivers are released WHQL every month which to some people doesnt mean anything - I feel their schedule of monthly WHQL updates show that they are working to remove bugs, improve performance and do it with WHQL not just releasing some shoddy beta drivers. Plus Ive submitted issues through the ATI form and have actually seen these problems fixed within a driver cycle. I'm not trying to bash NVIDIA but they really need to take a look at ATI and follow their lead with driver support and external community beta testers. If this was happening the shimmering issue would've never seen the light of day someone would've pointed it out long ago.

saturnotaku
09-07-05, 09:23 AM
Plus Ive submitted issues through the ATI form and have actually seen these problems fixed within a driver cycle. I'm not trying to bash NVIDIA but they really need to take a look at ATI and follow their lead with driver support and external community beta testers. If this was happening the shimmering issue would've never seen the light of day someone would've pointed it out long ago.

If you've had that kind of luck with ATI, do you think you could submit to them the OpenGL gamma adjustment bug that's been plaguing their drivers for the last 20 months?

fatal1ty
09-07-05, 10:50 AM
If you've had that kind of luck with ATI, do you think you could submit to them the OpenGL gamma adjustment bug that's been plaguing their drivers for the last 20 months?


If I knew what it was and had screenshots of it, yes. However Ive never seen the bug you are talking about.

I submitted pics of the problems I've had, affected games and how to reproduce it.

aAv7
09-07-05, 11:28 AM
All I know is I dropped my x800 pro after 7 months because ati took their sweet time fixing the painkiller bug, and at the time, I was playing that game daily. I made the switch to a 6800GT and played bug free.

Naturally, a week after I switched cards the bug was fixed...and only alittle over half a year's time!

Ati's catalyst team is a joke, they "listen" to your problems, yet if u submit a driver complaint on the forum @ rage, you get banned. Yeah...real helpful... :rolleyes:

I still say nvidia's drivers may have their problems, but the frequent beta's keep them head and shoulder's above ati.

fatal1ty
09-07-05, 11:35 AM
All I know is I dropped my x800 pro after 7 months because ati took their sweet time fixing the painkiller bug, and at the time, I was playing that game daily. I made the switch to a 6800GT and played bug free.

Naturally, a week after I switched cards the bug was fixed...and only alittle over half a year's time!

Ati's catalyst team is a joke, they "listen" to your problems, yet if u submit a driver complaint on the forum @ rage, you get banned. Yeah...real helpful... :rolleyes:

I still say nvidia's drivers may have their problems, but the frequent beta's keep them head and shoulder's above ati.


More people get banned here, in fact some dipstick posted a post about mikec at rage3d asking for people to email him and let him back on the boards. Next thing you know its full out war on mikec.

http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33826212&highlight=nvnews
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33826260&highlight=nvnews

You cant post anything here negative against NV without fear of getting banned. Ive never had a problem on rage even when the radeon cards used to suck and Id complain about them. The part about getting banned on rage is not true unless you do something really bad, at least you can complain there without an immediate ban.

Umm also there is a submission form on ATIs website for driver bugs, you dont post them in the forums :rolleyes:

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=737-1713

zoomy942
09-07-05, 12:27 PM
lets keep this thread on topic....

KickAssCop
09-07-05, 12:42 PM
lets keep this thread on topic....
I just knew it, that there would be a driver war. :rolleyes:. People should stick to topic.

OWA
09-07-05, 01:12 PM
HDR and SM3.0 mean nothing when there is shimmering. Unfortunately game developers just look at features and not actual image quality - thus the push for hardware that can support it. SM2.0b on the ATi cards looks just as good as anything Ive seen using SM3.0, HDR is cool, but again I'd rather not have shimmering in my games. Will nvidia fix it? Who knows, but at this point I would have rather stuck with my X850XT PE than this 7800 GTX just due to the annoyance of shimmering in everything I play.

Most of the shimmering can be reduced significantly by using HQ + Clamp with the 6800s and using the 78.03s for the 7800s clears up almost all of it for the 7800s. You'll also see the same issues with ATI but from what I've seen when comparing various games, it looks like ATI's "optimizations on" IQ is sometimes better than nvidia's "optimizations on" IQ. If you have a really high-end system, it's not as much of an issue since you'll probably be running in HQ mode all the time anyway. But, for people with more mainstream systems, I can see where it could be an issue.

Anyway, as far as this poll, personally I'd keep the 6800GT but mainly because I prefer "extra features" and nvidia's drivers. But, one of my favorite features is HDR and with the 6800s, the performance can sometimes be marginal.

j0j081
09-07-05, 05:02 PM
More people get banned here, in fact some dipstick posted a post about mikec at rage3d asking for people to email him and let him back on the boards. Next thing you know its full out war on mikec.

http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33826212&highlight=nvnews
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33826260&highlight=nvnews

I make a post about that in the shimmer thread a while back (thought it was funny) and it was immediately deleted.

Chiles4
09-07-05, 06:26 PM
I see that you've posted this poll on Rage3D as well Yeah, but I think he's getting better answers on this forum...unless you truly can line up a bj for only $32. :D

2wiced
09-07-05, 06:40 PM
well since we are all sharing opinions....i would chose the X800XL. I had a 6800 16/6 for my AGP system and then upgraded to pci express. I never used HDR for the most part. Infact when i did, it wasnt something super crazy. For me the whole lighting thing isnt an excitement.

But Hey dont kill me, its just my personal preferance. Like others said, ask yourself what you will be playing...then get the cardyou feel like getting. If i were you i would do the X800XL and 50 bucks :D :D :D

john19055
09-07-05, 08:02 PM
I would keep the 6800GT if it will overclock as fast as an ultra because it is going to be faster then the X800XL unless you know the X800XL will over clock real far,My X800XT is faster in some games and looks better in some games ,but the same goes for my 6800ultra it is faster in some games mostly openGL ,but IMO I would just keep the 6800GT,but if you are like me and want to try a new toy then go for it,that is why I got a X800XT but I would not have got it if I had to part with my 6800ultra.